Remote Virtual Machine

[geekman2]

I have one very powerful PC that I would like to use as a VM server, and then I have a netbook and a HP pavilion dv2000 laptop that I would like access the VMs. My ideal setup would be to have my main machine running Windows 7 and have two virtual machines running Windows 7 that would be accessed and used by the netbook and notebook across the network, this would allow the two mobile PCs to make use of the main PC's sizable resources while still being three different machines that can be used by three different people. The reason I want to do this is that I have a lot of people who want to use the computer, but only one that runs Windows, has Office, and is very powerful. Any help on this topic would be appreciated.

 

[Kebero]

Unless you have an enterprise class hypervisor, you may have issues with this. You may want to think of using Hyper-V Server 2008 R2 (free), and virtualising Windows 7 over that.

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[vaidas3]

Unless you have an enterprise class hypervisor, you may have issues with this. You may want to think of using Hyper-V Server 2008 R2 (free), and virtualising Windows 7 over that.

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windows 2008 R2 server is not free.. technet/msdn subscribtion gives you some keys for testing but not very good for permanent environment, there is evaluation copy of win2k8 server but after evaluation period is over (there is few extensions of that period) you will have to buy or stop using it.

the most powerful free virtualization tool is virtualbox.. other option is vmware but only player (limited version) is free. there is free version of microsoft virtualization virtual pc for client os but its lacking some functionality..

 

[Kari]

Unless you have an enterprise class hypervisor, you may have issues with this. You may want to think of using Hyper-V Server 2008 R2 (free), and virtualising Windows 7 over that.

windows 2008 R2 server is not free.. technet/msdn subscribtion gives you some keys for testing but not very good for permanent environment, there is evaluation copy of win2k8 server but after evaluation period is over (there is few extensions of that period) you will have to buy or stop using it.

Two different products. As Kebere said, Hyper-V Server 2008 R2 is free, you can download it from here: Download: Microsoft® Hyper-V

Kari

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
another suggestion

If you Download Windows 8 consumer preview (Free) and install VMware workstation rel 8.02 (or later) this can operate your Virtual Machines as Servers where NOBODY needs to be logged on to the host or even have an account on it.

In other words for example users can logon (locally on the same Lan or remote if your router / firewall allows it) to the VM without having to have an account on the Host machine itself.

Of course the Virtual machine will have the same restrictions as to number of concurrent users as a Native machine would -- I use a Windows 2003 Server - but unless you can get some arrangement from work / college (if you are a student you can often get a server OS from Ms via your college) you'll probably have a single user machine such as W7 as the remote Virtual Machine.

VMware's vmserver is now discontinued -- functionality has been incorporated into VMware workstation rel 8.

I haven't tried the facility in W7 but it definitely works in W8 consumer preview -- as far as users of the remote machine are concerned -- no difference as the are only seeing the standard W2003 server login screen.

You wouldn't have ANY problems running 2 or 3 W7 instances as virtual machines on the host and as I said users don't have to have an account on the HOST.

Note that to use say RDP (Remote Desktop) to each virtual machine you will have to arrange for the RDP ports via your router to be mapped differently for each machine as RDP has a standard port setting.

It's fairly simple to set up and if the W7 machines are reasonably identical (should be with Virtual Hardware etc) you can test say one machine and then clone the rest.

Note here to avoid confusion

What I mean here that NORMALLY when you run VMware on a Host YOU (or a USER) have to be logged on to start the VMware program and need to be logged on throughout the life of the application.

What operating it as a "Server" does means that this process can run in the background WITHOUT anybody being logged on to the Host -- so the host gets booted up and starts the VM's and you are in business.

It's probably a bit heavy to start with but if you can perservere and peruse this article it should point you in the right direction --actually although it sounds complex once you've got the basic process going you'll be amazed at how easy it is.


http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/mi...nguage=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=2005585

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Kebero]

If he's going to use Windows 8, he may as well use Hyper-V.

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[pparks1]

If you Download Windows 8 consumer preview (Free) and install VMware workstation rel 8.02 (or later) this can operate your Virtual Machines as Servers where NOBODY needs to be logged on to the host or even have an account on it.

For the OP: Just be aware that the VMWare Workstation product is a commercial application and does cost $199. I recently bought myself a copy with a discount code from VMWare for $169. It's a really solid product and I felt worth the money

 

[Kebero]

For the OP: Just be aware that the VMWare Workstation product is a commercial application and does cost $199. I recently bought myself a copy with a discount code from VMWare for $169. It's a really solid product and I felt worth the money

VMWare Workstation is a great product. However, it would be a really poor choice for hosting guests that someone would connect to via RDP. This is because it's not a true, bare-metal hypervisor. VMWare Workstation introduces a software layer that sits on top of the host OS. It's great for interacting with a guest locally, but once you have someone using the local host, plus running the guests from other PCs via RDP, you're going to start seeing performance issues.

This is why I suggested either Hyper-V Server 200 R2 or the use of Hyper-V on Windows 8 if the OP chooses to install it. Hyper-V, like XenServer and ESXi/vSphere are bare-metal hyperisors. The parent ("host") OS resides on top of the hypervisor, as to all the child ("guest") OSes. There is a reason why server-side hypervisors are created like this.

 

[pparks1]

It's not a true bare metal hypervisor, of course. The Original Poster wanted to continue using his high powered workstation for his everyday tasks, so going with a Hypervisor based solution wasn't appropriate.

I've very familiar with virtaulization stuff. I'm the VMWare vSphere guy at my office. It's what I do for a living. Hyper-V, while a cheaper solution for things like Live Migrations, is a real pain in the ass to work with. I avoid it at all costs.

 

[Kebero]

See, I think that for what he wants, if he's going to use Windows 8, Hyper-V would be a great choice, since it's already there on the client OS, and since he's likely not going to need anything other than a simplie install of Windows as the child.

For the record, I use VMWare Workstation 8 on my laptop. I just wouldn't use it to host VMs for people to remote into.

 

[geekman2]

Are you guys saying that I would run windows 7 on the host "server" inside of hyper-V? Because if so, that is not an option, because that would require reinstalling the OS and I cannot do that.

 

[geekman2]

Also, the two computers that I want to connect to the "Server" are running Ubuntu, so I can't just use windows remote desktop to connect them

 

[Kebero]

Regarding Hyper-V, the answer varies. On Win2k8 and Win8, once you enable Hyper-V and reboot, the hypervisor loads befor the OS. Using Hyper-V Server 2k8 or any other bare-metal hypervisor, you would have to install the OS from scratch.

Ubuntu has a remote desktop client.

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[jimbo45]

Hi everybody
I think there are two issues here

1)Cost
2) complexity of service

1) VMware workstation IS a commercial product but if you need the functionality --- WELL WORTH THE MONEY.

you could try and see if you can find a site which can still download VMware server -- it's FREE but DISCONTINUED so beware if you use discontinued products.

2) Complexity -- My understanding that these remote VM's were only single user OS'es like W7 and probably ONLY the same set of 2 or 3 people would be accessing these remotely --- not like a "commercial VPN" or login service to a company server type of operation. So for this particular operation I still maintain this is the EASIEST way to get this up and running -- even better if you could operate VBOX like this but I don't think currently you can run it as a background service to start and stop VMs which is why I suggested using vmware.

Running Esxi on the host is a possible solution but as the OP says he can't change the Host system so the hardware as I understand it is a Powerful W7 Remote machine which is capable of running at least 2 or 3 concurrent Guest W7 systems.

2 or 3 people need to access their individual copy of the W7 virtual machine remotely

seems to me that my solution is by far the easies uf you don't mind shopping around and spending 160 USD or so on VMware workstation -- sometimes decently developed robust commercial products are worth using and VMware has plenty of decent pedigree in the virtualisation area.

since the OP can't change the HOST OS on the remote machine esxi is effectively out -- and remember some of these Hyper -V type solutions are incredibily fussy over what hardware they will run on -- you need to create some sort of "White Box" or get a server grade piece of kit for the host which will cost you a lot more money than a copy of VMware workstation

You also need a separate machine to act as a "Console" to operate the vm's etc.

I like Esxi but I think it's overkill for what I understand to be the fairly simple requirements here - that 2 or 3 users (the same one's) just want to be able every so often to access a remote W7 machine with their own applications on it.

Btw

Depending on who you are setting the service up for you could get them perhaps to contribute towards the VMware licence.

In any case you can download a Trial to see if the solution is "fit for purpose" before trying out other methods.

Don't forget that the free VMware server might still be "findable" -- this used to work quite well but being discontinued and quite old the virtual hardware set won't support the latest 3-d graphics etc


Don't also forget that from LINUX to access a Windows machine remotely you just use something like RDESKTOP. Works just like RDP


http://www.rdesktop.org/

Again Q.E.D !!

(To kebero -- I don't think the O.P wanted to HOST VMware on a Netbook or laptop for remote logins -- the REMOTE machine as he said is a decently powered W7 Workstation !!).



If you DO have access to another machine the Windows 8 HYPER-V combination might be fine but I'm not sure how many W7 virtual machines you would be allowed to run on the W8 consumer edition desktop as it's not designated as a Server. You might be limited to a single Virtual instance.

I haven't tried this myself -- something to do if the weather gets really bad over the Easter Holiday and I don't want to go outside. (This time of the year you can get 4 seasons in one day !!!).

If this works it gets round the cost of VMware workstation -- but of course you'd still have change the OS on the HOST machine.

Anybody who's got USEABLE multiple instances of Windows running on W8 Hyper-V please post.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[UsernameIssues]

...... -- even better if you could operate VBOX like this but I don't think currently you can run it as a background service to start and stop VMs which is why I suggested using vmware.........

There are several 3rd party tools that will start most any program as a service - here is one. There is also a parallel thread on this topic.

One of my suggestions to the OP was to not open/forward ports on the router for the remote RDC/RDP sessions - use a VPN tool and avoid security flaws like the recent RDC/RDP patch fixed. Plus the VPN tool gives you a static IP address to connect to in case the internet facing IP for the office is dynamic.

 

[jimbo45]

...... -- even better if you could operate VBOX like this but I don't think currently you can run it as a background service to start and stop VMs which is why I suggested using vmware.........

There are several 3rd party tools that will start most any program as a service - here is one. There is also a parallel thread on this topic.

One of my suggestions to the OP was to not open/forward ports on the router for the remote RDC/RDP sessions - use a VPN tool and avoid security flaws like the recent RDC/RDP patch fixed. Plus the VPN tool gives you a static IP address to connect to in case the internet facing IP for the office is dynamic.

Hi there

1) all good advice and true -- but I think the first thing the OP wanted to do was to get the basic concept running first -- a mistake I often find with any sort of technical application is that when you are learning to do it the first time the examples given are usually FAR FAR too complex or too trivially simple.

Please don't take this as a rebuke -- all suggestions are great and most people are greatful if others have taken the time to attempt to answer their posts.

Just my observations in quite a few years of giving demos and classes to students of ALL levels of abilities.

I suspect that if you are just doing this sort of stuff for the first time - things like VPN and IPSEC will be totally off your radar.

Once he can show that the P.O.C (Proof of concept) works you can of course add all the extra security / other features you like -- but if the OP can't get the basic configuration to work then every thing else is pointless.

A very good reason for this is that on an error you can isolate what's not working. If you mess around with VPN's at this stage and nothing works -- then you've got the devil's own job to untangle what's not working.

I recently spent a few days in Manchester England (visiting "The Threatre of Dreams" -- Man Utd Football Club for a game) and tried to help a colleague get a VPN to work.

It was only after many hours did we find the problem -- it was with the BT cable box he was using -- some of the BT new cable boxes weren't VPN friendly at all -- eventually an Engineer replaced the box once he understood what we wanted -- I suppose he couldn't understand our English accents -- anyway problem fixed.

A Newbie probably wouldn't have had a clue in a million years to sort this out - after all you don't normally expect the problem to be in the external web service which you can't do anything about.


2) Just enabling a program to run or start as a service doesn't mean that it will do what you want like start and stop VM's,

For example you *Could* start VMware player (not workstation) as a logon start up application -- but how do you start and enable VM's from VMware player itself -- what the OP wants is that when the HOST machine boots the VM's are started WITHOUT the ANY user being logged on to the HOST at all (or at least only the default logon account in the case of a Windows non server OS - W7 etc).

The started application or service must have the ability to do that itself after the application has started. The latest version of VMware workstation can start selected VM's automatically.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Kebero]

Hi everybody
Anybody who's got USEABLE multiple instances of Windows running on W8 Hyper-V please post.

I've successfully run two instances of Windows 7 Enterprise in Hyper-V on Windows 8 CP.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi everybody
Anybody who's got USEABLE multiple instances of Windows running on W8 Hyper-V please post.

I've successfully run two instances of Windows 7 Enterprise in Hyper-V on Windows 8 CP.

Hi there

Thanks for the info.

Is there anyway to "stand alone" convert an existing Virtual Machine from VMware format to hyper-v.

I know I can download the W8 Hyper-V server (TechNet !!) and use its converter but that seems a long winded method just to convert 2 VM's. .

I don't mind creating the W7 VM from scratch - but if you've got a decently built VM with your test apps installed it would be much easier to convert it.

Cheers
jimbo