Removing the power cord makes Windows 7 crahes hard at the reboot.

[gigueref]

Hi,

I have a weird problem here that is giving me some headache since the potential trouble it could cause is great. Here is the problem:
When i remove the power cord of a cpu while working, it often makes windows 7 crashes hard.

1- When that happens, W7 by default makes a system restore. Since we don't want that, we removed this option.
2- Since the sytem restore has been desactivated, W7 reboot over and over again. i have to reinstall. Sometimes, even the safe mode (i think it's the english word) is not working.

This scenario does not happen everytime because sometimes W7 succeeds in "getting back" online. Sadly tough, the first scenario happens often.

I work in a school were the kids have 13-17 years old. Some of them discovered that "Feature" in W7 and they make W7 crashes on purpose and trust me they succeed quite well.

Another concern is that if there is power failure in the school, i'm afraid of what could happens to my W7. Since i have over 100 of them, you can see the reason why i am a little concerned here.

Finally, i asked a technician in another school to remove the power cord of a cpu as a test and it is the same result as me: The computer completely crashed. He had to reinstall.

So my question is this:
Is there a way to make W7 more stable when there is a cold reset? I do not have this problem with XP.

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[DustSailor]

Hello Gig, and welcome to sevenforums!

How are you disconnecting the CPU? Do you mean the PSU?

How does Windows make a system restore without power?

Even withut a system restore, windows shouldn't reboot again and again. Are you disabling the system restore feature correctly?

I'm not sure why you would need to reinstall simply for removing power to the computer, this should not happen. You may have to explain more, because I can remove power from my pc any time I want and it boots up just fine. It will display a message to boot into safe mode or continue in normal mode, and I just choose normal mode. I do this with any computer I've ever used.

 

[gigueref]

Hello Gig, and welcome to sevenforums! Thank you!

How are you disconnecting the CPU? Do you mean the PSU? I unplug the computer while it is up and running. Like a power failure in a certain way.

How does Windows make a system restore without power? When it reboot after being unplugged, W7 by default ask for a system restore. The problem is that the image W7 takes is the one we use for our clean images,. No software nothing. Not even in the domain.

Even withut a system restore, windows shouldn't reboot again and again. Are you disabling the system restore feature correctly? I know that's why i'm making this post. I do not understand how harsh W7 is when it gets a cold reset. The system restore is removed by hand or through GPO. The problem is not there i'm pretty sure.

I'm not sure why you would need to reinstall simply for removing power to the computer, this should not happen. You may have to explain more, because I can remove power from my pc any time I want and it boots up just fine. It will display a message to boot into safe mode or continue in normal mode, and I just choose normal mode. I do this with any computer I've ever used.I know that's why i'm so confused about all this. I have over 400 PCs under my charge right now and i have no idea what could cause that.

 

[DustSailor]

Hello again Gig,

Assuming you have a computer or two to test this on -

First, make sure all drivers are updated and that you have all important windows updates installed. Believe it or not, this is important.

Next, look at the picture I post and make sure your settings are all set properly on your own PC (note that the picture is set to not use system restore):
View attachment 196594
You can also follow this link for more detail: Turn System Restore on or off

Besides all of that, run these tools to see if they can discover any corrupt files. Don't skip over any of the important reading in the tutorials:
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/1538-sfc-scannow-command-system-file-checker.html
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/681-startup-repair.html

Now when you perform a 'power outage', try shutting the computer down by holding the power button. Let me what screen comes up. If it does what you want, then try yanking the cord out of the wall.

PS it isn't healthy for a PC for you to do that. Also, you can create a new system restore and/or system image that can help you in the event of a catastrophe.

 

[gigueref]

Hello again Gig, Same for you!

Assuming you have a computer or two to test this on - Indeed i have some with me

First, make sure all drivers are updated and that you have all important windows updates installed. Believe it or not, this is important. Already checked, all drivers taken directly form the manufacturer for every model (we only got lenovo computers). We have our own WSUS server that makes the windows update on every PC here.

Next, look at the picture I post and make sure your settings are all set properly on your own PC (note that the picture is set to not use system restore):
Attachment 196594
You can also follow this link for more detail: Turn System Restore on or off
This is exactly where i go when i want to turn off the system restore. Our GPo does the same thing too.

Besides all of that, run these tools to see if they can discover any corrupt files. Don't skip over any of the important reading in the tutorials: I will check that and come back to you.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...e-checker.html
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...up-repair.html

Now when you perform a 'power outage', try shutting the computer down by holding the power button. Let me what screen comes up. If it does what you want, then try yanking the cord out of the wall. OK i will do that too.

PS it isn't healthy for a PC for you to do that. Also, you can create a new system restore and/or system image that can help you in the event of a catastrophe.

Thank you for your help. I will come back to you monday or tuesday,

 

[Layback Bear]

Okay I'm a dummy. Why would one do this to a computer. Shut the computer down in normal fashion and if needed for what ever reason unplug the power supply. If this is being done because their has been a power loss, just turn off your surge protector, (you do use a surge protector don't you). When the power comes back on turn your surge protector back on which gives power back to your power supply and boot, select normal boot. The only thing that will be different is you will have lost the work you were doing when the power went down. If you haven't had a power loss from the wall socket don't unplug anything, shut down normal and turn off the surge protector. Good surge protectors work even when they are turned off.

 

[profdlp]

Okay I'm a dummy. Why would one do this to a computer...

...I work in a school were the kids have 13-17 years old. Some of them discovered that "Feature" in W7 and they make W7 crashes on purpose and trust me they succeed quite well...

Remember when you were a teenager? I do...

 

[gigueref]

hello everyone,

As promised i made the tests you asked:

Now when you perform a 'power outage', try shutting the computer down by holding the power button. On my three tests on three differents PCs, it always indicate the message where i can logging normally with Windows normally or use the safe mode. All is normal there.

Let me what screen comes up. If it does what you want, then try yanking the cord out of the wall.
Weird, they do the same messages as if i hold down the power button... No crash no system restore... And i tried more than one time to crash them. I'm really confused right now

"Besides all of that, run these tools to see if they can discover any corrupt files. Don't skip over any of the important reading in the tutorials:"
I did the sfc /scannow on a crash PC. Since i was unable to log in it i used Winpe to access the HD. To my surprise sfc was giving a message that it would'nt work since there is a system restore being scheduled... Crap...
I rebooted the computer and waited to see if it would come to the login window. It did after 15 minutes! I logged in and finally was able to make a sfc /scannow. The scan worked well and i had no error message.
Still after rebooting the same thing again! W7 always want to make a system restore. Is there a registry key or anything to tell to Wondows 7 to stop asking for a system restore is cases like this? I feel like it's gonna be my solution because after the 15 minutes login, W7 acts normally but if i have the bad idea to reboot he always try to make a system restore.

Nice day!

 

[DustSailor]

Hello gig,

Unfortunately, I've never seen or heard of this error before. A picture may help if you would be able to somehow get one on here. But even so, I may not be able to help. I have no idea what causes such a problem. Perhaps, if you are able, clean install windows 7, install all updates and drivers, disable system restore, and then try holding down the power button. My guess is it is something on your computer that is causing this problem, as it doesn't happen to mine.

 

[profdlp]

What are the Write-Caching settings on the hard drives?

 

[gigueref]

They are the same as you. They must be the default settings. I checked it on my crashed PC and on a "normal" PC. I did not put the image since eveything is in french here!

So to resolve this problem i have came to theses conclusions:
1- Tell windows 7 to stop asking for a system restore when it is already disabled. I took a peek in the services in hoping to see a name that would match but i did not find anyhting conclusive till now.

2- Even if i succeed in resolving the precedent point, i still do not know for sure why my PCs are crashing.

Next thing: I will update the BIOS of the crashed PC and see what will happen.

 

[DustSailor]

You can still post the pic, I have a translator. And that way I can be able to see what the screen looks like. Or you might be able to see if you can pull it from the internet.

 

[gigueref]

OK i have put it in attachement.

I made theses tests:
- Updating the BIOS - same problem (i thought so but you never know).
- using msconfig - removed everything in the startup - same result
- tried to log in safe mode - PC blocks at classpnp.sys file.

This one a tough nut to crack indeed.

 

[fseal]

Any computer with any OS that is running and in the middle of doing anything has a high chance for failure when power is suddenly removed.

This is why UPSes are generally so important (of course that wont help here).

If you have people being /actively malicious/ then you need to go to greater steps to protect the OS using third party software. My old age is preventing me from remembering the name of the software at this moment. But basically it allows you to set an image state and then every time the computer is turned on it boots from that saved image. Meaning that nothing anyone does can harm the machine after a reboot.

This is a way to actually make this work without third party software but it took some real tinkering. (Called the EWF which saves all system disk writes to ram and never writes back to the hard drive therefore never puts the OS in a state where a power pull can do any damage. You can try looking up instructions for installing the Windows "Enhanced Write Filter" yourself on an experimental machine if you want. It works perfectly (or did on XP when I last used it))

Hopefully someone can remember the name of the commercial software for doing this...

[Edit] Here we go, there are others but this one seems highly regarded, called "Deep Freeze": http://www.faronics.com/solutions/small-office-home-office/ [/edit]

 

[gigueref]

Deepfreeze in one of these software. I know them.

As a proverb i once heard, Using this solution would be cutting the arm to remove a bruise on the finger. We would have to review all our infrastructure that is based on SCCM.

 

[fseal]

Well, it's a pain to deploy but is the pain of restoring broken PCs less? (It might be depending on your procedures). Turning off the write caching as explained above may help some, definately the low hanging fruit but not fool proof.

The EWF works miraculously on XP Not tried on Windows 7 though. No cost, setup is a PITA but you can do it once and clone the drive before activation... then deploy once to all PCs.

 

[desirete]

Hi, I just installed Windows 7 in my Toshiba laptop and every time I unplug the power cord Windows crashes. In the same way, if I switch my laptop without the power cord and I plug the cord later on, it crashes too.

Is not very "portable" any more
I have no idea what would it be.... I replace the battery for a brand new one (and genuine - not because of this but I was needing it) and I'd done several updates (all of those you do when you format your computer).

Any ideas??

Cheers,

 

[fseal]

I assumed the OP was ta;ling about desktop computers (though maybe that was wrong).

Every laptop I've ever had handles having the adapter plugged and unplugged at will. So in this case I would guess that it's either a hardware problem with the laptop (either soething broken or that model just always does that) or maybe an update to the battery/charger drive. Which would be a VERY specific thing to that laptop model that you would have to get off the manufacturers website (if they have it).

If this laptop is < a year old and still in warranty I might think about just getting it exchanged this is definitely something you /should/ be able to do as it has been an expected behavior of laptops forever...

I would google that laptop model and problem and see if other people are having the same issue. If so then it may just be bad design on that model

 

[desirete]

Hi fseal,
Is a laptop Toshiba Satellite M200 and is 3 1/2 years old :s

I had it previously running in Windows Vista and it started to switch off suddenly (absolutely random) since 6 months ago.... That's why I replace the battery too (I thought it could be related as the battery was that old). However it never switched off when plug/unplug the cord.

Now I install Windows 7 and it doesn't switch off suddenly but Windows crashes (it just freezes) when plug/unplug the cord.

I'll send it for a general clean of dust/etc (as I have never done it :s), but I think as well it might be hardware (unfortunately)

 

[Palak]

solution to your problem : go to power settings> change advance power settings> processor power management > system cooling policy ::: make it 'Active'' on battery.
Enjoy !!! I think problem happens as cpu clocks down to 5% to save power , when powercord is removed, instead of letting the fan run.