"Safely remove" drive before hibernation?

[Alonzo Poodle]

Do one have to "safely remove" (with that icon in the system tray) a drive (e.g. an external USB hdd) before hibernation? Or can one plug the plug off when / while the computer / Notebook hibernates?

 

[AddRAM]

It would be very smart to, it may show up as unallocated one day

You should only be hooking up an external when you`re using it, there is no reason to have it hooked up any other time.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
I usually just shutdown to connect and disconnect external hdd's in an enclosure
About the safest way in win-7 there is.
Flash drives I'll use safe to remove option.

 

[LMiller7]

I agree with AddRAM

When a computer goes into hibernation the contents of RAM is saved to disk. This includes portions of the disk that may be in the file cache. It is critical that this cached copy remains in sync with the data on the drive or results are unpredictable, but generally unpleasant. With a local disk it is difficult to be otherwise. Normally Windows will flush the cache of removable drives before hibernation. The problem is that sometimes removable drives do not get recognized as such and then you have a potentially serious problem. If you use the safe removal procedure the cache will be flushed properly and no problems should occur.

 

[rubyrubyroo]

Hear! Hear!

I agree with AddRAM & for precisely the reason that LMiller7 has described!

(I can't say I always practice what I preach though, I've often done what ThrashZone suggests but it's a "BIG FAT do it @ your own risk scenario. Unwise if you have important data stored on it - and what else, pray tell, would one have on such a drive? Hmm..) :sarc: ....Now that's a real thinker!

 

[Alonzo Poodle]

Many thanks.

It would be very smart to, it may show up as unallocated one day

So that is the answer to my first question. It sounds very frightening, it really can be like that (after hibernation)?

I usually just shutdown to connect and disconnect external hdd's in an enclosure

But it might be a bit inconvenient and if you need the computer kept running not possible.

Very often it is not possible to remove a drive safely, a message is often shown saying either an unknown error occurred the drive cannot be removed or some process is accessing it. But I cannot find any process accessing the drive, e.g. "Unlocker" does not show any. And if shutting down the computer is not possible at the moment...

When a computer goes into hibernation the contents of RAM is saved to disk. This includes portions of the disk that may be in the file cache. It is critical that this cached copy remains in sync with the data on the drive or results are unpredictable, but generally unpleasant. With a local disk it is difficult to be otherwise. Normally Windows will flush the cache of removable drives before hibernation. The problem is that sometimes removable drives do not get recognized as such and then you have a potentially serious problem. If you use the safe removal procedure the cache will be flushed properly and no problems should occur.

Sorry, I do not understand, if an external drive is not recognized (as such) why is it accessible?

Actually I would have thought according to the default settings (deactivated cache on the external drives) (screenshot) something like that, data loss, cannot / should not happen.

All of what is being said here applies to Win 10 also?

 

[LMiller7]

Sorry, I do not understand, if an external drive is not recognized (as such) why is it accessible?

I meant that sometimes a external drive gets recognized as an internal drive and not as an external. This is usually a driver issue.

The screenshot refers to the drives internal cache, not the system file cache which is usually much larger. This must remain consistent with the data on the drive or results are unpredictable.

The basic principles of hibernation haven't changed since it was introduced so everything said applies to all versions.

I don't have a great deal of experience with hibernation but I do understand how it works quite well and the potential dangers. This isn't apparent to the user but the details of hibernation are really very complex.

 

[Alonzo Poodle]

I meant that sometimes a external drive gets recognized as an internal drive and not as an external. This is usually a driver issue.

I understand, I have never encountered such a problem.

The screenshot refers to the drives internal cache, not the system file cache which is usually much larger. This must remain consistent with the data on the drive or results are unpredictable.

I am not quite sure, the text says "deactivates the writing cache of the drive and in Windows" and "the drive can be removed without using the icon 'safely remove'".

I don't have a great deal of experience with hibernation but I do understand how it works quite well and the potential dangers. This isn't apparent to the user but the details of hibernation are really very complex.

Yes, I could imagine that. What are the "potential dangers"?

Many thanks

 

[ThrashZone]

I personally have no need to leave a machine on 24/7... so shutdown works for me
Startup times are pretty good too and a small inconvenience that does a more effective job with external drives as described by them being confused with internal drives

I get used to it I have a dual ssd evo hot swap device so I switch ssd's with operating system on it fairly often as a safer way to dual boot.
Amazon.com: Vantec 2.5-Inch Dual Bay Trayless SATA III - 6G Mobile Rack (MRK-225S6-BK): Computers & Accessories

 

[Alonzo Poodle]

I understand, thank you for the link.

 

[LMiller7]

@Alonzo Poodle

I stand by everything I have said. But I do not have time to explain everything.

 

[ThrashZone]

Windows 7 releases all drives and devices on shutdown is my main point possibly with the exception to drives used in a raid.
Of course win-10 is also an exception because it uses fake shut down that is hibernation on steroids unless inside win-10 a user disables fast startup
I've had a couple drives with nothing really on them except transfer files from 7 to 10
One drive always prompted check disk to initialize it before use or check for errors commonly caused by not disconnecting it properly = fake shut down in win-10
Second time it turned a transfer drive in to RAW

 

[Alonzo Poodle]

Yes, of course, I really understand, that's very cool.

 

[Layback Bear]

I think the first thing one might think on is hibernation needed or just wanted. If it is not needed don't use it. That eliminates hibernation problems.
Today's computers boot in less than 60 seconds. Computer like to have a fresh boot.

Unlike LMiller7 I don't have the knowledge of all the in's and out's of hibernation but by reading many posts their are many problems that people have with hibernation. Most of those people have no need for hibernation. They git one hibernation problems fixed and up pops another one. Because their are so many different system their is no one answer to one hibernation problem.
Because I'm just a layman in class 101 I would suggest if you don't need hibernation don't use it.

I also use HotSwap bays for ssd's that comes in very handy.

 

[Doki]

Sorry, my last post referred to LMiller7, thanks again.

Windows 7 releases all drives and devices on shutdown is my main point possibly with the exception to drives used in a raid.

Actually it appears to be quite inconvenient, but often it seems to be the only way to properly / safely get a drive removed since it is often not possible to get rid of it by using that safely remove icon although there is not shown any process accessing that drive. So it is often much more inconvenient to search for such a process.

Of course win-10 is also an exception because it uses fake shut down that is hibernation on steroids unless inside win-10 a user disables fast startup
I've had a couple drives with nothing really on them except transfer files from 7 to 10
One drive always prompted check disk to initialize it before use or check for errors commonly caused by not disconnecting it properly = fake shut down in win-10
Second time it turned a transfer drive in to RAW

I do not have any idea of anything, but that does not sound very good. So what does that mean? What should one do to safely remove drives (I am also using Win 10 since some weeks).

I think the first thing one might think on is hibernation needed or just wanted.

Well, it is easier to handle, you can go on where you stopped working, no need to reopen windows, programs, mount drives, etc.

That eliminates hibernation problems.

What kind of problems?

Today's computers boot in less than 60 seconds.

My last Notebook needed about 15, 20 minutes to boot including opening all of the programs. The Notebook I use now, it has an SSD, needs - still (I guess it will become slower after some time) - about 10 seconds to start from hibernation, the programs I need already being opened. I could not recognize any problems caused by hibernation, may be there have been some, I do not know.

 

[ThrashZone]

In windows 10
Fast Startup - Turn On or Off in Windows 10 - Windows 10 Forums

Most would also disable fast or quick startup in the mother board bios for good measure as well.
Yea the fast startup stuff started in win-8 and continues in win-10

 

[Doki]

Many thanks