Sata 3 Cables

[GeneO]

How do you know there is a difference in the quality of the cables? I was mainly disagreeing about the purity of the copper - pure copper is always used. The SATA 1&2 spec allow for a couple of guages. By insulation do you mean shielding?

Here you go. The section on cables in the standard org's FAQ:

9: Does SATA 6Gb/s require different connectors and cables to support the higher
transfer speed?
A9: The same cables and connectors used for current SATA 1.5 and SATA 3.0 Gb/s
implementations can be used to connect SATA 6Gb/s devices, although SATA-IO recommends
quality components be selected to ensure data integrity and robust operation at the faster SATA
6Gb/s transfer rate. Keeping the existing SATA connector form factor enables SATA 6Gb/s to
be designed into the same cost-conscious hardware architectures while minimizing
infrastructure changes.

http://www.sata-io.org/documents/SATA-Revision-3.0-FAQ-FINAL.pdf

So I think as long as you have a good quality, shielded, SATA cable meant for a disk drive it should work fine. Some of the cables that come with CD/DVD reader/writers are not very good I expect.

 

[HammerHead]

Say What

I was referring to sata 2 and sata 3 which is what I thought the thread was about. Are we talking about USB or Sata. I stand by what I said about sata cables. The resistance of a conductor is critical to what is capable of doing. The carrier voltage probably remains the same between sata 2 and sata 3. The difference would be the frequency at which the digital sig in transmitted. To be successful the cable should be a higher quality. Hence increase in circular mils and quality of the copper. Since I don't have any way of measuring those specs, I am at the mercy of the manufacturer.

 

[DustSailor]

check this link out, but keep reading, arguments go back and forth: SATA III cable?

 

[Sardonicus]

Using Sata III cables with 2 non-raided SATA III drives, there's nothing to get excited about. The cables don't make much of a difference. Mechanical drives are limited, period.

 

[seekermeister]

That would have been more useful, if SATA II cables were used on one drive, and SATA III on the other. However, looking at the results, you are getting Higher transfer rates than I am on my SATA III drives, which are connected with SATA II cables.

EDIT: Your tests results prompted me to run a test on my own drive of the same brand/model, and the results were markedly different. Of course, I don't know that is because of the cables, or other hardware differences:

 

[GeneO]

I was referring to sata 2 and sata 3 which is what I thought the thread was about. Are we talking about USB or Sata. I stand by what I said about sata cables. The resistance of a conductor is critical to what is capable of doing. The carrier voltage probably remains the same between sata 2 and sata 3. The difference would be the frequency at which the digital sig in transmitted. To be successful the cable should be a higher quality. Hence increase in circular mils and quality of the copper. Since I don't have any way of measuring those specs, I am at the mercy of the manufacturer.

I don't know why you would think I wasn't talking about SATA II vs III or why your threw USB in there.

I know what you said but I am asking is this opinion or do you know that the manufacturers need to increase the purity of the conductor (I believe they are all 100% copper) or the wire gauge or is this just your opinion. I would like to know this information - it seems impossible to find.

I know they test insertion loss and it has to be 6db for a certain length up to 4800 MHz for 3Gb/s SATA. I expect that SATA 3.0 test is the same except for a frequency somewhere above 6000 MHz. They don't specify how the spec should be met - better shielding or wire gauge could be used, but it is not s3epcified. I also suspect, from the sata-io words I quoted, that most good quality cables made for SATA II probably meet this spec.

Also to p5bdkw. Though drives may not be able to use the available SATA bandwidth, the electrical signaling is still at 6Gb/s for a 6Gb/s device on a 6Gb/s controller. So the the cable still has to be able to meet the spec.

 

[Hopalong X]

GeneO

I think your post earlier that you removed part of explains sufficiently. I am re posting it.
I think it explains it quite well. You should have left it up.

http://www.sata-io.org/documents/SATA-6Gbs-Fast-Just-Got-Faster.pdf

SATA 6Gb/s Cabling
The same cables and connectors used for current SATA implementations can be used to connect SATA 6Gb/s devices. SATA-IO recommends utilizing quality components to ensure data integrity and robust operation at the fast 6Gb/s transfer rate. Cables already at the threshold of 3Gb/s operating margins may experience lower performance than expected at 6Gb/s due to an increased number of resends. The SATA Revision 3.0 spec addresses this issue by defining the Compliance Interconnect Channel (CIC). The CIC is outlined as a mathematical model of a compliant channel as well as an insertion/return loss plot defining the most extreme losses the system can sustain and still be compliant. Note that the CIC does not specify the components to be used in a system but rather the overall performance and quality the system must exhibit. Cable vendors will want to consider removing any question of quality by marking their packaging to explicitly state a product's 6Gb/s CIC compliance. Vendors can also have their cables added to the Integrators List on the SATA-IO web site. End-users, for their part, will want to consult the Integrators List – this list is available to the public – before buying new cabling

So if it isn't on their list which I will look for I would be reluctant to buy it for SATA 6Gb's.

No seal of approval makes me wonder.

 

[seekermeister]

GeneO,

Looking at your wildlife photos, it is obvious that you have a thing with birds...I wonder if you ever saw photography of the ducks in the Tucson zoo, where one duck and her baby flock were feeding the fish in the lagoon that went through the zoo. I remember it being in the newspaper once, some years ago, but I saw them myself on a visit to the zoo, and was very amused, not only by the birds behavior, but the many fish sticking their heads out of the water with their mouths open.

I don't know that this video is of the same location or time, and I don't recall the fish being carps, but this will show what I'm talking about. This is a single duck, whereas what I saw was a group, and instead of casually feeding each fish one at a time, my ducks were scurrying back and forth hectically.

YouTube - ‪baby duck feed the carp (Nishiki-Goi, Koi)‬‏

 

[Sardonicus]

That would have been more useful, if SATA II cables were used on one drive, and SATA III on the other. However, looking at the results, you are getting Higher transfer rates than I am on my SATA III drives, which are connected with SATA II cables.

EDIT: Your tests results prompted me to run a test on my own drive of the same brand/model, and the results were markedly different. Of course, I don't know that is because of the cables, or other hardware differences:

There's definitely a hardware difference.
WD5001AALS SATA II 3.0Gb/s
WD5002AALX SATA III 6.0Gb/s

The WD5002AALX outperforms the WD5001AALS, but it's obvious as to why.

I compared the results from my SATA III cables versus my SATA II cables, and here are the results. As you can see, the difference is negligible.

SATA III cable


SATA II cable

 

[seekermeister]

Ah! You are right. Sometimes I just can't keep my drives straight in my mind.

EDIT: Still, this illustrates something that I have asked about previously, regarding whether a SATA III drive is better than SATA II or not. All the responses that I got seemed to brush it off as merely being hype, or too negligible to be worth noting. That may be true for someone accustomed to SSDs, but not for someone such as myself that is specifically interested in hard drives. The difference between your drive and mine is definitely worth paying a little more for. Had I seen this previously, I would not have opted for that SATA II drive.

 

[Hopalong X]

If you go to the manufacturer web site- the retailer may post it- look up the cable you are interested in it should have one of these seals.
https://www.sata-io.org/developers/certified_logo_program.asp

If not then quality is questionable at best.

Just an observation with all the junk on the market with weird off brand names from you know where.

 

[Sardonicus]

If the board only supports SATA II 3.0Gb/s, then an SATA III cable is a mute point.

 

[GeneO]

GeneO

I think your post earlier that you removed part of explains sufficiently. I am re posting it.
I think it explains it quite well. You should have left it up.

http://www.sata-io.org/documents/SATA-6Gbs-Fast-Just-Got-Faster.pdf

SATA 6Gb/s Cabling
The same cables and connectors used for current SATA implementations can be used to connect SATA 6Gb/s devices. SATA-IO recommends utilizing quality components to ensure data integrity and robust operation at the fast 6Gb/s transfer rate. Cables already at the threshold of 3Gb/s operating margins may experience lower performance than expected at 6Gb/s due to an increased number of resends. The SATA Revision 3.0 spec addresses this issue by defining the Compliance Interconnect Channel (CIC). The CIC is outlined as a mathematical model of a compliant channel as well as an insertion/return loss plot defining the most extreme losses the system can sustain and still be compliant. Note that the CIC does not specify the components to be used in a system but rather the overall performance and quality the system must exhibit. Cable vendors will want to consider removing any question of quality by marking their packaging to explicitly state a product's 6Gb/s CIC compliance. Vendors can also have their cables added to the Integrators List on the SATA-IO web site. End-users, for their part, will want to consult the Integrators List – this list is available to the public – before buying new cabling

So if it isn't on their list which I will look for I would be reluctant to buy it for SATA 6Gb's.

No seal of approval makes me wonder.

Yes, I took it out because I couldn't find this CIC info. Good luck.

 

[GeneO]

If you go to the manufacturer web site- the retailer may post it- look up the cable you are interested in it should have one of these seals.
https://www.sata-io.org/developers/certified_logo_program.asp

If not then quality is questionable at best.

Just an observation with all the junk on the market with weird off brand names from you know where.

I have looked around for cables on the web and none of the 6Gb/s cables have that 6Gb/s certified logo that I could find.

 

[seekermeister]

If the board only supports SATA II 3.0Gb/s, then an SATA III cable is a mute point.

That I understand. However, while my current rig is only SATA II, the one that I about to build will be SATA III, therefore the cabling is not a moot point.

 

[Hopalong X]

Link Depot says they are compliant. So does Nippon Labs but no Seal on either site.

Other brands I checked linking from Newegg do not post anything.

Crapshoot all around it appears.

 

[seekermeister]

Going somewhat off in a tangent, I found some SATA III cables which are round, rather than the typical flat shape. Is there any reason that these would be better or worse?

 

[Hopalong X]

It would depend on the quality inside.

Ever see jumper cables for an automobile? I found some one time that claimed they were the same as the $40 heavy duty cables.

Really nice clamps, heavy duty insulation and super flexible just like the fancy ones. $10

I read the small print on the insulation- 12ga. wire. They looked just like the 6ga. and 8ga.

Unfortunately my point is no.
They could be better and quite possibly are better but insulation is just insulation. Unfortunately you can't see inside.

So far I found no SATA cable manufacture with the seal posted yet.

 

[tw33k]

I tested my C300 using both types and the results showed no benefit from using a "SATA 3" cable

 

[GeneO]

Going somewhat off in a tangent, I found some SATA III cables which are round, rather than the typical flat shape. Is there any reason that these would be better or worse?

They aren't as flexible. That might be important for your cable management.