Solid State Drives

[Almighty1]

Okay, I'm just wondering, I've heard it mentioned quite a bit and I knwo and understand most things about PC's but this I've never really looked into so I'm going to now...

What is a SSD?, What are the pros and cons to using it?, How do you use it?, Is it reccomended?, what performance difference does it give?, and finally, could you make a computer with weak processor/graphics card and everything run very fast and play games very well if you have lots of them in one pc?

Could someone explain in laymens terms? For me and so I can explain to other people as I know this is a reasonably new technology and is suposedly 'the future'?

Thankyou.

 

[RogerR]

Solid State Drives are big RAM disks. No moving parts like platters to break. Upside - very fast. Down side - very expensive. And some write-rewrite issues. Think bleeding edge.

 

[Almighty1]

Cheers, I've just been trying to read up on them... I read that performance degrades over time. Degrade how so? Like a normal PC degrade or like within a year youll notice a diifference?

 

[bobkn]

Cheers, I've just been trying to read up on them... I read that performance degrades over time. Degrade how so? Like a normal PC degrade or like within a year youll notice a diifference?

Current SSDs aren't RAM disks. They are flash memory devices. (They retain stored data without electric power.) Here's an article on them:

AnandTech: The SSD Anthology: Understanding SSDs and New Drives from OCZ

There are two basic types: SLC (single level cell) and MLC (multi-level cell.) The SLCs store a single bit per cell, and are faster (at least in principle). They're much more expensive than the MLC drives, though.

Unlike most technology, the prices on SSDs have increased lately, apparently due to high demand for flash memory (think iPods, smart phones. etc.).

Their performance degradation is due to the data on them having to be erased before it can be re-written. As a drive is used, it fills up with data that is no longer needed but that hasn't been erased yet. This can lead to slow writes. (Reading data is not affected.) Newer drives, used with Windows 7, support features that do the erase during slack times, to the write slowdowns are supposed to be less. There are also utilities that can be run at intervals to clean the drive, and restore it to new performance.

Don't consider getting an SSD if your object is to improve game performance. It won't make up for a weak CPU or graphics card. (It might improve load times, but that's not vital.)

 

[Frostmourne]

To play games properly at a resolution that counts - 1920x1080 and above an SSD is one link in the chain. You still need proper components with balls for games.

 

[Almighty1]

Cheers, I've just been trying to read up on them... I read that performance degrades over time. Degrade how so? Like a normal PC degrade or like within a year youll notice a diifference?

Current SSDs aren't RAM disks. They are flash memory devices. (They retain stored data without electric power.) Here's an article on them:

AnandTech: The SSD Anthology: Understanding SSDs and New Drives from OCZ

There are two basic types: SLC (single level cell) and MLC (multi-level cell.) The SLCs store a single bit per cell, and are faster (at least in principle). They're much more expensive than the MLC drives, though.

Unlike most technology, the prices on SSDs have increased lately, apparently due to high demand for flash memory (think iPods, smart phones. etc.).

Their performance degradation is due to the data on them having to be erased before it can be re-written. As a drive is used, it fills up with data that is no longer needed but that hasn't been erased yet. This can lead to slow writes. (Reading data is not affected.) Newer drives, used with Windows 7, support features that do the erase during slack times, to the write slowdowns are supposed to be less. There are also utilities that can be run at intervals to clean the drive, and restore it to new performance.

Don't consider getting an SSD if your object is to improve game performance. It won't make up for a weak CPU or graphics card. (It might improve load times, but that's not vital.)

No, I wasnt planning on getting one... too expensive. My PC can run every game so far fine, if not better. It's just a saw a video where these people got SSD's aout 100 of them, hooked it up to a pc in RAID or something and they tested it. The boot time was something like 5 seconds, the degraf time was i think 2 seconds and theyopened every application on the pc and it took only 10 seconds. Then I saw them go and run Crysis, and not only did it load up within seconds, but I'd never seen the game run so fast before.

 

[pparks1]

No, I wasnt planning on getting one... too expensive. My PC can run every game so far fine, if not better. It's just a saw a video where these people got SSD's aout 100 of them, hooked it up to a pc in RAID or something and they tested it. The boot time was something like 5 seconds, the degraf time was i think 2 seconds and theyopened every application on the pc and it took only 10 seconds.

There was a Samsung video showing 24 of them in a RAID array providing about 1TB of SSD storage space. It was cute, but totally impractical and crazy expensive.

Then I saw them go and run Crysis, and not only did it load up within seconds, but I'd never seen the game run so fast before.

Of course, in addition to SSD drives for hard drive speeds, they likely had dual physical processors with multiple cores, a couple of high end gaming video cards in SLI or Crossfire and a lot of other very high end equipment as well.

 

[noobvious]

No, I wasnt planning on getting one... too expensive. My PC can run every game so far fine, if not better. It's just a saw a video where these people got SSD's aout 100 of them, hooked it up to a pc in RAID or something and they tested it. The boot time was something like 5 seconds, the degraf time was i think 2 seconds and theyopened every application on the pc and it took only 10 seconds.

There was a Samsung video showing 24 of them in a RAID array providing about 1TB of SSD storage space. It was cute, but totally impractical and crazy expensive.

Then I saw them go and run Crysis, and not only did it load up within seconds, but I'd never seen the game run so fast before.

Of course, in addition to SSD drives for hard drive speeds, they likely had dual physical processors with multiple cores, a couple of high end gaming video cards in SLI or Crossfire and a lot of other very high end equipment as well.

Yeah, two Intel extreme quad-core processors, and two graphics cards too. Out of my budget though.

 

[Wishmaster]

You really do not need to put games and other media on the SSD to benefit from them.
True , it will load a game a bit faster, but even putting just the OS on the SSD, and games and other media on spinning drives everything is faster.


As mentioned, the downside is cost to storage.

Still, no way Id ever go back to a spinning drive for the OS. The difference is staggering, even is it just has the OS, & all media and games sitting on spinning drives.

Not only do they read faster, but there is no spinup time, or wait to access data, as with a spinning drive that must seek to several locations to find its target.


Is it worth it? I would say Yes.
Going to SSD for the OS was the most significant upgrade Ive done in a long time.
The impact they have on the system as a whole is immediately apparent.

I would would stay away from the Jmicron controllers however.

 

[manhunter2826]

Cheers, I've just been trying to read up on them... I read that performance degrades over time. Degrade how so? Like a normal PC degrade or like within a year youll notice a diifference?

Current SSDs aren't RAM disks. They are flash memory devices. (They retain stored data without electric power.) Here's an article on them:

AnandTech: The SSD Anthology: Understanding SSDs and New Drives from OCZ

There are two basic types: SLC (single level cell) and MLC (multi-level cell.) The SLCs store a single bit per cell, and are faster (at least in principle). They're much more expensive than the MLC drives, though.

Unlike most technology, the prices on SSDs have increased lately, apparently due to high demand for flash memory (think iPods, smart phones. etc.).

Their performance degradation is due to the data on them having to be erased before it can be re-written. As a drive is used, it fills up with data that is no longer needed but that hasn't been erased yet. This can lead to slow writes. (Reading data is not affected.) Newer drives, used with Windows 7, support features that do the erase during slack times, to the write slowdowns are supposed to be less. There are also utilities that can be run at intervals to clean the drive, and restore it to new performance.

Don't consider getting an SSD if your object is to improve game performance. It won't make up for a weak CPU or graphics card. (It might improve load times, but that's not vital.)

Lovely post bob

 

[Almighty1]

So basically... your best bet is to get something like a 16GB SSD, put your OS on it... and maybe a few of your main applications/software? Whilst you install games and lesser software onto normal old HDD's?

Here's another question... what if you put anti-virus/spyware/adware software onto a SSD, would that speed up the scan times? I dotn see why it would from what I've learnt from all you lot but I'd figure I'd ask?

 

[Wishmaster]

Yes it will speed up scans on the OS portion,
DATA on spinning drives will scan slower.

I would go with at least a 30GB. And yes, all programs and the OS.


You may also want to do a few tweaks with a SSD.
Disable Windows Defrag, Disable Hyberfile, and move page file or disable it if enough RAM.

Also, move pictures, music, Vide, Documents to a spinning drive and install Games to a directory on a spinning drive.

Doing this, 30GB will house the OS and all programs just fine.

if you can go bigger, then fine i just wouldnt get smaller than 30GB

 

[Almighty1]

Yes it will speed up scans on the OS portion,
DATA on spinning drives will scan slower.

I would go with at least a 30GB. And yes, all programs and the OS.


You may also want to do a few tweaks with a SSD.
Disable Windows Defrag, Disable Hyberfile, and move page file or disable it if enough RAM.

Also, move pictures, music, Vide, Documents to a spinning drive and install Games to a directory on a spinning drive.

Doing this, 30GB will house the OS and all programs just fine.

if you can go bigger, then fine i just wouldnt get smaller than 30GB

Why would I want to disable windows defrag and the other tweaks exactly?

 

[pparks1]

You don't need to defrag as a solid state drive can access any part of the hard drive almost instantly. Plus, solid state drives have a limited number of writes...so no sense wasting them on defrags...which don't really benefit these drives.

Hibernate, if enabled, creates a file as large as your RAM on your C drive. So, if you have 8GB of RAM, you would have an 8GB hibernation file. And if you only had a 30GB hard drive, dedicated 8 GB to a hibernation file is almost 1/3 of the drive. Page file is pretty much the same thing.

 

[Almighty1]

You don't need to defrag as a solid state drive can access any part of the hard drive almost instantly. Plus, solid state drives have a limited number of writes...so no sense wasting them on defrags...which don't really benefit these drives.

Hibernate, if enabled, creates a file as large as your RAM on your C drive. So, if you have 8GB of RAM, you would have an 8GB hibernation file. And if you only had a 30GB hard drive, dedicated 8 GB to a hibernation file is almost 1/3 of the drive. Page file is pretty much the same thing.

Makes sense... So defrag only defrags windows files right?

 

[pparks1]

No, defrag defrags the entire hard drive. YOu don't want to defrag the SSD, but may want to defrag the standard mechanical hard drive that you might be using for storage.

 

[Wishmaster]

Another note about defrag, some manufactures say defrag on SSd is OK, and can help the SSD's performance when used as maintenance:
BUT:
only once or twice a month or so
and ONLY with something like Perfect Disk using Consolodate or Diskeeper HYPERFAST.
(both of which you must purchase)

They all agree Windows own Defrag is bad for them as it offers no consoladate, which is where the benefit comes in. Its just making writes with no benefit gained for a SSD.

<<In fact, my own sugegstion would be to grab one of the 2, which ever you prefer and disable Windows defrag all together. Even for mechanical drives, as either one is far superior to Windows built in.>>

My own personal experience, PD10 consolodate every 6-8 weeks would be good.
It doesnt seem to help in real world scenarios doing so more often. It feels just as fast with or without, but does show some improvement on benchmarks. (Again, just my own personal opinion with my Vertex)

 

[krazdkiller]

30 is a little on the small side. i would go no less than 60.

 

[pparks1]

Yeah, I personally went with the 80GB intel. With hibernate turned off, page file on storage drive, browser caches on storage drive...my box with Windows 7, all of my apps installed and a couple of games used about 25GB leaving me with about 50GB free.

 

[whs]

I have 2 SSDs (for 2 different systems) - one Intel 80GB and one OCZ 60GB. In my book there is nothing that can speed up your system as much as an SSD for the same amount of Dollars. The OCZ Vertex 30GB was on sale at Newegg for $99. That is a wonderful disk and completely sufficient for the Windows7 OS. Just put your data on the HDD.
Win7 supports Trim and also a few tweaks like alignment and service disabling (e.g. superfetch). So you really need not do much tweaking yourself. I would not want to go back to HDDs for the OS.