Sony and Panasonic team up to create 300GB discs of the future

[A Guy]

Believing there is a future for optical discs, Sony and Panasonic have said they will jointly develop a new next-generation standard capable of storing a minimum of 300GB on a single piece of media. While both companies have released their own high-capacity optical solutions in the past, they will now work together to develop a new format that will target professionals, but may also come in handy for regular consumers as well.

Source

A Guy

 

[Stephanie]

Believing there is a future for optical discs, Sony and Panasonic have said they will jointly develop a new next-generation standard capable of storing a minimum of 300GB on a single piece of media. While both companies have released their own high-capacity optical solutions in the past, they will now work together to develop a new format that will target professionals, but may also come in handy for regular consumers as well.

Source

A Guy

Thanks Bill

a minimum of 300GB

Wow looking forward to seeing this

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
I posted another comment on this on W8 saying that RT devices weren't the only stupid product manufacturers sometimes come up with.

Anyway here it is

..While one might have views on the uselessness of the RT tablet and Windows RT in general - here's another example of a product that I suspect is going no-where.

Considering the abject failure of Blu-Ray with its incredibly stupid DRM stuff and totally BOVINE play back restrictions what possible uses are there for 300 GB Optical devices now !!! -- small external Cheap HDD's can easily have capacities of 2 TB and even SSD's are increasing capacity and decreasing costs -- who needs to mess around with Optical media any more and as for buying content - this is increasingly being supplied via STREAMING and fast broadband downloads.

I'd suspect that those areas that don't have fast broadband by the time these discs ever become "mainstream" prices of other media will be EVEN cheaper and only really rural areas will be without decent broadband speeds by this time -- and the market in those areas for this type of device will be TINY if existent at all -- so another BIG FAIL here. If they can't sell BLU RAY what chance of this stuff -- and it will probably be around 2018 / 2020 before 4K TV / Monitors become cheap enough for a typical consumer to use them.

BBC News - Blu-ray successor plan unveiled by Sony and Panasonic

I LIKE technology and "Boys toys" but this seems to me to be utterly ridiculous and will go precisely nowhere.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[bobafetthotmail]

Heh, Jimbo has a point. Even if we disregard the DRM stuff, Blu-ray was very very "meh". Expensive the disk, even more expensive the players needed to read it, myopically focused the market (basically 3D movies. Never seen blu-rays used to do anything else here).

So yeah, if the price does not become 50 bucks per friggin movie plus 100+ for a player and 2000+ for the home cinema that is actually able to play it at full quality regardless of HD, 4K or multi-dimensional holographic movie making technology, then it will likely still have some kind of place as the last gasp of a dying technnology.

I still think that the future will be transition to either fully digital downloads/streaming or modified USB flash drives as they rely on technology that has a ton of other uses as well so can enjoy higher cost reductions due to massive mass-production.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Not only that -- we could also get the Green party on side -- micro sd cards consume FAR less "Rare Earths", the production processes are cheaper and infinitely less polluting too -- so again apart from the futility of a 300 GB optical drive (I've just bought my 2nd 4TB external drive now for around 170 EUR) environmentally they are a bad idea too.

64 GB micro sd cards are in the offing and who knows how much higher capacity micro devices will come on stream in the next few years -- these types of devices are just fine for things like movies and SSD's will also reduce in size and have larger capacity too.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[lehnerus2000]

If they are "burn once" discs (ROM) they have a big advantage over Flash and HDDs, malware can't install itself to the media (after they have been burned).

I could carry backup images of all of my clean VMs, several Linux distros and numerous repair tools on a single disc.

The problems I see are burn time and access time.
It takes ages to transfer 300 GB off of my USB2.0 external HDDs (even USB3.0 isn't particularly speedy).

 

[Indianatone]

There will always be a market for a hard copy. People also need to archive data. On the one hand it does seem rather pointless as I can remember being told when I had a PC with a 1GB drive I would never fill that up :roflmao: But I did and then some. Here in the USA we are reading reports of cable providers sabataging streaming downloads from Netflix, youtube etc. You can buy a fast connection but the cable companies don't really want you to use it Time Warner Cable: No, we don
So unless you like watching your favourite actors "buffering" constantly you will need a DVD of some kind.

 

[jimbo45]

There will always be a market for a hard copy. People also need to archive data. On the one hand it does seem rather pointless as I can remember being told when I had a PC with a 1GB drive I would never fill that up :roflmao: But I did and then some. Here in the USA we are reading reports of cable providers sabataging streaming downloads from Netflix, youtube etc. You can buy a fast connection but the cable companies don't really want you to use it Time Warner Cable: No, we don
So unless you like watching your favourite actors "buffering" constantly you will need a DVD of some kind.

Hi there
even that's not true --I copy my DVD's to ISO's via software like AnyDVD - I remove the encryption and region code too otherwise the copy is an exact copy of the original DVD and then transfer these to external HDD's.

Sometimes if I'm travelling I just copy a few of these to a micro SD card - a 32 GB card can accommodate about 4 or 5 full commercial DVD's.

Windows 8 makes it even easier it has native built in ISO mounting so you don't even need a virtual DVD mounter either.

Now when you mount one of these "DVD's it behaves exactly like an Optical DVD -- menus and all.

Copying 100's of DVD's on to a small passport 2TB external USB drive IMO gives a much more portable and useful DVD library too. --OK have a 2nd drive for a 2nd copy just in case --HDD storage is cheap enough now.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[bobafetthotmail]

If they are "burn once" discs (ROM) they have a big advantage over Flash and HDDs, malware can't install itself to the media (after they have been burned).

Linux does not allow that to happen anyway. Which is why I use linux distros on my USB PC recovery "toolkit" I made with YUMI.

Besides, there are USB drives that can be write-protected with the flip of a switch like the bulk of SD cards, and that technology isn't going to disappear while they are developing this new optical standard.

I could carry backup images of all of my clean VMs, several Linux distros and numerous repair tools on a single disc.

That will work only on a select few PCs (the ones with the reader, that will be a minority for a loong while, given how even old stuff is still good enough today). Unless you get an external reader.

Here in the USA we are reading reports of cable providers sabataging streaming downloads from Netflix, youtube etc.

Here in the rest of the world internet speed sucks for a lot of people anyway so that throttling isn't even necessary.

The point was that there are better ways than another new optical drive standard to move data without an internet connection. (namely flash-based storage devices)

I mean, the same situation did not make Blu Ray disks particularly appealing, and adding a new standard will only make it worse.
As it's a new technology all over again, and you cannot simply assume that everyone has a 300GB optical disk reader at home (unless you are Microsoft) the same way you can safely assume that everyone will be able to read a DVD (and around 40-50% are able to read a Blu-Ray).

So that's a few years of R&D, on top of a few years for the new standard to get some recognition and begin to be widespread enough, while hoping that flash-based drive technology sits here doing nothing?

I mean, we have 128 GB SD cards now man. Next year they are likely going to come out with 256 GB ones at affordable prices (there are already 256 GB SD cards but they cost something like 900$).
And the "new" SDXC standard they made in 2009 allows them to go up to 2 TB when they get the chips for that.

EDIT: addendum:
One of the main reasons behind Blu-ray back in the day was that flash drives were too slow for HD movies or 3D or whatever, but that is no more the case since SDHC class 4 (transfer speeds around 4 MB/s, around that of Blu-rays), all new cards are class 10, transfer speeds in excess of 10 MB/s, and depending on manufacturer speeds vary between 20 and 40 MB/s.
Most USB drives have read speeds in excess of 20 MB/s even without going in the high-end models.

 

[lehnerus2000]

If they are "burn once" discs (ROM) they have a big advantage over Flash and HDDs, malware can't install itself to the media (after they have been burned).

Linux does not allow that to happen anyway. Which is why I use linux distros on my USB PC recovery "toolkit" I made with YUMI.

Besides, there are USB drives that can be write-protected with the flip of a switch like the bulk of SD cards, and that technology isn't going to disappear while they are developing this new optical standard.

Linux allows things to run with the User's Privilege Level.
I have received patches for RPE and RCE (not as many as for Windows though).

I have never seen a USB stick with that obvious feature (maybe they don't sell them in Australia).
I have seen Internet forum comments stating that say they exist.

I don't use SD cards, but you are right (my friend has a couple lying around).

Why don't external HDDs come with "Write Protection" switches?

I could carry backup images of all of my clean VMs, several Linux distros and numerous repair tools on a single disc.

That will work only on a select few PCs (the ones with the reader, that will be a minority for a loong while, given how even old stuff is still good enough today). Unless you get an external reader.

That is true enough.

The point was that there are better ways than another new optical drive standard to move data without an internet connection. (namely flash-based storage devices)

I mean, the same situation did not make Blu Ray disks particularly appealing, and adding a new standard will only make it worse.
As it's a new technology all over again, and you cannot simply assume that everyone has a 300GB optical disk reader at home (unless you are Microsoft) the same way you can safely assume that everyone will be able to read a DVD (and around 40-50% are able to read a Blu-Ray).

Obviously the limiting factor will be cost.

Blu-ray discs are expensive.
Cheap Blu-ray discs are 6x the cost of expensive DVD discs (at my supplier).

The drives aren't much better (at least they are backwards compatible).

 

[jimbo45]

If they are "burn once" discs (ROM) they have a big advantage over Flash and HDDs, malware can't install itself to the media (after they have been burned).

Linux does not allow that to happen anyway. Which is why I use linux distros on my USB PC recovery "toolkit" I made with YUMI.

Besides, there are USB drives that can be write-protected with the flip of a switch like the bulk of SD cards, and that technology isn't going to disappear while they are developing this new optical standard.

Linux allows things to run with the User's Privilege Level.
I have received patches for RPE and RCE (not as many as for Windows though).

I have never seen a USB stick with that obvious feature (maybe they don't sell them in Australia).
I have seen Internet forum comments stating that say they exist.

I don't use SD cards, but you are right (my friend has a couple lying around).

Why don't external HDDs come with "Write Protection" switches?

That will work only on a select few PCs (the ones with the reader, that will be a minority for a loong while, given how even old stuff is still good enough today). Unless you get an external reader.

That is true enough.

The point was that there are better ways than another new optical drive standard to move data without an internet connection. (namely flash-based storage devices)

I mean, the same situation did not make Blu Ray disks particularly appealing, and adding a new standard will only make it worse.
As it's a new technology all over again, and you cannot simply assume that everyone has a 300GB optical disk reader at home (unless you are Microsoft) the same way you can safely assume that everyone will be able to read a DVD (and around 40-50% are able to read a Blu-Ray).

Obviously the limiting factor will be cost.

Blu-ray discs are expensive.
Cheap Blu-ray discs are 6x the cost of expensive DVD discs (at my supplier).

The drives aren't much better (at least they are backwards compatible).

Hi there.

What actually made Blu Ray essentially unsellable was the STUPID DRM and encryption keys - that made the playing of Blu Ray discs a total lottery - even on dedicated consumer players. The whole idea of buying a film and allowing you to use it on ANY device of your choice even though the cost of the movies has come down to the same price as standard DVD's - which any sensible player can "Upscale" decently anyway.

People were also bitten by the incredibly stupid REGIONAL encoding on standard DVD's --fortunately easily breakable. People travel a lot and it was incredibly stupid when laptops used to have HARDWARE locks to only allow DVD's of a certain region to be played.

Any new optical standard will probably STILL incorporate this total type of BOVINE protection in it -- so WISELY consumers will stay away big time and get their 4K movies from other sources.

In any case we'll shortly be seeing the first AFFORDABLE CONSUMER grade PB HDD disks appear by then. (1PB = 1000 X 1TB) !! so what need for a mere TINY capacity 300GB optical disk. !!

Cheers
jimbo

 

[bobafetthotmail]

Linux allows things to run with the User's Privilege Level.
I have received patches for RPE and RCE (not as many as for Windows though).

True, but usually stuff that kills windows (the main job for the USB toolkits) doesn't run at all on Linux.

I have never seen a USB stick with that obvious feature (maybe they don't sell them in Australia).

This place sells them. And no offense, but I thought a brand called Kanguru would have some recognition down there in AU. (just kidding, it's a US-based company)

This forum gives others.

But yeah, they aren't prevalent. It's a feature with a limited appeal for the average user.

Why don't external HDDs come with "Write Protection" switches?

I assume they thought the feature wasn't so interesting for the average user. Write-protected USB drives are rare enough for this reason I think.

 

[jimbo45]

Linux allows things to run with the User's Privilege Level.
I have received patches for RPE and RCE (not as many as for Windows though).

True, but usually stuff that kills windows (the main job for the USB toolkits) doesn't run at all on Linux.

I have never seen a USB stick with that obvious feature (maybe they don't sell them in Australia).

This place sells them. And no offense, but I thought a brand called Kanguru would have some recognition down there in AU. (just kidding, it's a US-based company)

This forum gives others.

But yeah, they aren't prevalent. It's a feature with a limited appeal for the average user.

Why don't external HDDs come with "Write Protection" switches?

I assume they thought the feature wasn't so interesting for the average user. Write-protected USB drives are rare enough for this reason I think.

Hi there
what's wrong with setting the files as READ ONLY or requiring a password to access them.
In any case write protected hardware switches are a PAIN as sometimes they break or Jam -- so another device destined for the tip or the bin.

On a network directories are protected as a matter of course - and if you are admin you can make mistakes too -- as SU in Linux you can delete the whole system if you want and the OS won't stop you either.

Decent backup should avoid disasters - much better than relying on "Read only" switches in the hardware.

Incidentally that's one of the new features in the ENTERPRISE version of W8.1 -- admins can set various protection levels on external USB devices from "No device" will function to full read write and loads of options in between. This IMO as a good feature - should prevent viruses being transmitted by users bringing from home Rogue USB sticks - especially with pirated software / movies on them.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[lehnerus2000]

True, but usually stuff that kills windows (the main job for the USB toolkits) doesn't run at all on Linux.

Agreed.

I have never seen a USB stick with that obvious feature (maybe they don't sell them in Australia).

This place sells them. And no offense, but I thought a brand called Kanguru would have some recognition down there in AU. (just kidding, it's a US-based company)

This forum gives others.

I don't buy stuff online.

Thanks for those links though.

But yeah, they aren't prevalent. It's a feature with a limited appeal for the average user.

Only because nobody has told (or demonstrated to) them what the benefits actually are.

I would have thought that drives with "Write Protection" would be of interest to businesses.

what's wrong with setting the files as READ ONLY or requiring a password to access them.

Windows 7 totally ignores the "Read-only" attribute.
It is one of the few big gripes I have with W7.

I'm not aware of how you can natively add passwords to files/folders in W7 (without using encryption).
I know that you can do it using 3rd party software (e.g. archive managers).

Any malware that can gain System Privileges can ignore those software protection settings including Local Policies.

It can't ignore physical "Write Protection" options.

 

[cold iron]

I would like this for storing pictures. I can't tell you how many photos I have lost with HD crashes and never to be seen again shots. Anything electrical is going to fail at some time, even chips.

 

[Wrend]

If they are "burn once" discs (ROM) they have a big advantage over Flash and HDDs, malware can't install itself to the media (after they have been burned).

I could carry backup images of all of my clean VMs, several Linux distros and numerous repair tools on a single disc.

The problems I see are burn time and access time.
It takes ages to transfer 300 GB off of my USB2.0 external HDDs (even USB3.0 isn't particularly speedy).

Something else going on there then, at least in regards to USB 3.0. My external HDD is nearly just as fast as my internal SATA3 HDD. Being a HDD is the limiting factor. Speeds are about 100MB/s.

 

[bobafetthotmail]

I would like this for storing pictures. I can't tell you how many photos I have lost with HD crashes and never to be seen again shots. Anything electrical is going to fail at some time, even chips.

Optical drives have a limited lifespan too. Or if not them, their player does.

While you wait, what about having multiple backups? It's unlikely that two (or more) drives will fail at the same time.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Wildly Variable Speeds

Something else going on there then, at least in regards to USB 3.0. My external HDD is nearly just as fast as my internal SATA3 HDD. Being a HDD is the limiting factor. Speeds are about 100MB/s.

Sometimes I can transfer files to my USB3 HDD at a sustained 90 MB/s.

Other times it can only manage USB2 speeds (~25 MB/s).
There doesn't seem to be any "rhyme or reason" to its behaviour.

 

[Wenda]

I would like this for storing pictures. I can't tell you how many photos I have lost with HD crashes and never to be seen again shots. Anything electrical is going to fail at some time, even chips.

Optical drives have a limited lifespan too. Or if not them, their player does.

While you wait, what about having multiple backups? It's unlikely that two (or more) drives will fail at the same time.

A while back, while having a serious clear-out, I decided to go through a box of CD-DOMs and a few boxes of 3.5" floppies I have had since whenever. Some of this stuff dates back to the early 1990s.

I was surprised (not really) to find that, despite being stored correctly, several of the CD-ROMs and a large number of the floppies were completely unusable. In the case of the CD-ROMs, some of the damage was clearly visible as a degradation of the disc's layers. Others appeared undamaged, but could not be read.

Strangely enough, my tape-based software for the C64 is still mostly all usable...


Wenda.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Strangely enough, my tape-based software for the C64 is still mostly all usable...

"An elegant storage medium for a more civilized age." (apologies to Obi-Wan Kenobi).