SSD controllers

[ICIT2LOL]

Now a simple query(s) from a simple me.

I don't fully understand why the maker of an SSD does not make the controller chip.

It seems a bit like sticking a Toyota steering system in a Ford car or am I missing something?

I have Googled this query and have come up with some quite varying reasons

I have been using Crucial with mixed success and having used Corsair RAM a fair bit thought I might put one (Force series GT) in my tester machine but there has not been much mention of this brand and I am wondering if anyone else can recommend it please?

 

[pbcopter]

The SSD manufacturer buys most if not all components from other vendors, not just the controller.
They design the device but use available components to build it. However, they may contract with another company, with a particular expertise, to customize a component if needed.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

It seems a bit like sticking a Toyota steering system in a Ford car or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something.

Many of the major sub-components of automobiles are NOT made by the brand on the car. It may well be that both Ford and Toyota use steering systems built by company X.

It's been that way for many decades and is true across many industries---not just automobiles and PCs.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

It seems a bit like sticking a Toyota steering system in a Ford car or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something.

Many of the major sub-components of automobiles are NOT made by the brand on the car. It may well be that both Ford and Toyota use steering systems built by company X.

It's been that way for many decades and is true across many industries---not just automobiles and PCs.

Yeah I know Ignazatsonic I was really using that as a metaphore really - I suppose if you make lemonade you don't make the bottles or caps eh?

No I just can't think why a large memory maker like some of them are could not work out a controller for their own SSD? I reckon they would have enough bright sparks around to do that

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I just can't think why a large memory maker like some of them are could not work out a controller for their own SSD? I reckon they would have enough bright sparks around to do that

I'm sure they could.

But they don't.


That tells me there are economic reasons not to---less net profit per SSD sold.

Otherwise they would, all else being equal.

The skill set of current Crucial employees (just as an example) may not be highly correlated to the skill set needed to make controllers. They might need to make a bunch of new hires to do controllers--thus cutting profit margin.

If the fee charged by the controller makers were to double overnight, you might see a different outcome.

Likewise, if third-party controllers were seriously dodgy or significantly increased Crucial's support/warranty expenses, you might see a different outcome.

I doubt if there is anything mysterious about it. Sub-contracting has become the way of the world as skills have become so specialized.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

I just can't think why a large memory maker like some of them are could not work out a controller for their own SSD? I reckon they would have enough bright sparks around to do that

I'm sure they could.

But they don't.


That tells me there are economic reasons not to---less net profit per SSD sold.

Otherwise they would, all else being equal.

The skill set of current Crucial employees (just as an example) may not be highly correlated to the skill set needed to make controllers. They might need to make a bunch of new hires to do controllers--thus cutting profit margin.

If the fee charged by the controller makers were to double overnight, you might see a different outcome.

Likewise, if third-party controllers were seriously dodgy or significantly increased Crucial's support/warranty expenses, you might see a different outcome.

I doubt if there is anything mysterious about it. Sub-contracting has become the way of the world as skills have become so specialized.

Yeah you're right it was a daft query in hindsight

 

[carwiz]

Yeah you're right it was a daft query in hindsight

Not at all. Most folks simply don't realize the power of economy of scale and production cost reduction. Sort of like; why make 1 item for a $1 when you buy 10 for $2. You just let those that have the ability do their best at what they do lower your costs. Factories all over the World function this way. You would be amazed at how many companies are involved in making a single product. As a Toyota example, no less than 400 companies make parts for the Tundra truck factory near here. Some make individual pieces and others put pieces together to make assemblies that the Toyota factory uses to build the trucks. Those same companies are making parts for other manufacturers too.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Yeah mate my fault as usual mouth in gear brain somewhere back in the pits LOL!!

 

[Britton30]

It's a good question John. As they have said, it is economics. Also the companies who I know of who make SSD controllers, JMicron, Marvell, etc, also make SATA and LAN controllers so are the "experts" in control circuitry. My reasoning at least.
Samsung is the exception so far, they do make there own 3 core SSD controller.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

It's a good question John. As they have said, it is economics. Also the companies who I know of who make SSD controllers, JMicron, Marvell, etc, also make SATA and LAN controllers so are the "experts" in control circuitry. My reasoning at least.
Samsung is the exception so far, they do make there own 3 core SSD controller.

Thanks Gary no mate it was a bit of a half baked question - I should have thought it out a bit better than that.

Having said that I was lookingat the Samsung today as a replacement and put the Crucial in the other machine.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

I think most of you guys --while giving interesting answers are actually barking up the wrong tree.

the firmware is actually inside the Disk (not unnaturally !!).

The actual limiting speed is the SATA interface especially if it's a Laptop drive and of course the software plays a part too -- The Windows kernel has to try and overlap I/O with other tasks -- the I/O gets as far as possible "Pre-Fetched" while the CPU is idle -- for example while you are typing say an email before pressing the enter key.

I don't think there's any conspiracy theories here about "Cheap" components etc. I'm sure INTEL, SAMSUNG etc want their devices to perform as efficiently and seamlessly as possible -- big bucks for them.

I don't think you'll find many complaints about SSD speeds. What we will need in future are

1) Larger SSD capacities.
2) More robust SSD's like SCSI for example so these could be reliably used as mirroring on servers etc.
3) new faster SATA or other I/O interface
4) Mobos and Chip design capable of dealing with faster I/O throughput
5) Software (including Windows itself) that can take advantage of faster I/O.

It's not always possible (or even desirable) just to put a faster component into one piece of the chain without looking at the rest.

(BTW this is often a problem I run into when dealing with some of my I.T people when working -- the Unit Tests work fine -- but when users start system testing the whole kybosh as a complete business process --that's when it sometimes goes pear shaped -- not always the I.T dept's fault either --business specs can be flawed too !!!).

BTW I've got 3 Samsung 120 GB's and they are BRILLIANT -- might be a teeny weeny bit more expensive --but worth it and you get a useful SATA==>USB cable which you can use if you want to keep your old laptop disks for backup data / extra storage etc.

cheers
jimbo

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Ah well jimbo you've sold me on the Samsung then and sounds like you have one of those little gadgets I wouldn't be without too LOL!!

 

[pbcopter]

OCZ has acquired Indilinx Co., Ltd, a controller manufacturer that they have used in the past and are using now in the Vertex 4. I believe they wanted more control of the designs.

OCZ Technology | About OCZ | | OCZ Technology to Acquire Indilinx Co., Ltd

 

[ICIT2LOL]

OCZ has acquired Indilinx Co., Ltd, a controller manufacturer that they have used in the past and are using now in the Vertex 4. I believe they wanted more control of the designs.

OCZ Technology | About OCZ | | OCZ Technology to Acquire Indilinx Co., Ltd

Yeah pb I read that in ZDnet newsletter and I think it was in some Google hits I did for info on controllers and the stuff I saw just provoked my curiosity.

Perhaps I shoudn't be so inquisitive I suppose

Actually in was in here some where anyway there are a couple of good refs and I see one for Seagate - wondered where they had been lurking as the only ones I have seen are HORRENDOUSLY expensive http://www.zdnet.com.au/search/ssd.htm