Stability Question

[jalebi]

I've been having lots of problems with stability in Windows 7 (Ultimate and Professional). Whether it's audio drivers, memory issues, or graphics problems, Windows 7 is not very stable for me.

I know this is a Windows 7 forums so I do expect some bias, but what OS would you recommend for me that is the most stable and would be able to play new games? I was considering XP 64bit but I read the support for that is terrible. Now I'm considering a 32 bit OS if it would provide more stability but I don't want my 4gb of RAM to go to waste. What do you think?

CPU: AMD Athlon II x3 440 3.00ghz
RAM: 4gb 1333mhz DDR3
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD4850

 

[DeaconFrost]

Why do you think the OS is the cause for instability? If so, wouldn't all of us have stability issues? A more rational line of thinking would be to want to figure out what piece of hardware or installed driver is causing the issue. You can accuse me of bias if you'd like, but I'd say that about any OS.

To start, have you tested your memory and your hard drive? Do you have the proper chipset drivers installed? Are you overclocking at all? How are your system temps?

 

[Skulblaka]

I don't understand, how would 4GB of RAM go to waste using a 32-bit OS?

I would advice using Windows 32-bit if 64-bit isn't stable on your current system specification.

Other OS's do not support a wide variety of games as Windows would.

 

[jalebi]

Why do you think the OS is the cause for instability? If so, wouldn't all of us have stability issues? A more rational line of thinking would be to want to figure out what piece of hardware or installed driver is causing the issue. You can accuse me of bias if you'd like, but I'd say that about any OS.

To start, have you tested your memory and your hard drive? Do you have the proper chipset drivers installed? Are you overclocking at all? How are your system temps?

Temps are very low (32C for the GPU and CPU) and I don't overclock. The newest chipset, graphics and other drivers are installed but they don't seem to work perfectly and that is the real issue - maybe they are not optimized for 64 bit. Maybe Windows 7 just doesn't agree with my system.

I don't understand, how would 4GB of RAM go to waste using a 32-bit OS?

I would advice using Windows 32-bit if 64-bit isn't stable on your current system specification.

Other OS's do not support a wide variety of games as Windows would.

32-bit OS would only make use of 3.25gb or the RAM if am not mistaken.

By "other OS" I meant other Windows OSes. That's the reason I want to stick with Windows - everything is compatible.

 

[Skulblaka]

I see, then I would recommend Windows XP if you're planning to switch, but give Windows 7 a chance, try 32-bit if you wish. Perhaps that may fix your problem.

 

[bigmck]

I've been having lots of problems with stability in Windows 7 (Ultimate and Professional). Whether it's audio drivers, memory issues, or graphics problems, Windows 7 is not very stable for me.

I know this is a Windows 7 forums so I do expect some bias, but what OS would you recommend for me that is the most stable and would be able to play new games? I was considering XP 64bit but I read the support for that is terrible. Now I'm considering a 32 bit OS if it would provide more stability but I don't want my 4gb of RAM to go to waste. What do you think?

CPU: AMD Athlon II x3 440 3.00ghz
RAM: 4gb 1333mhz DDR3
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD4850

There is one question that hasn't been asked. When you installed Win 7, did you do a clean install? If you did an upgrade from Vista, then that is your problem.

 

[Mellon Head]

The first thing I would do is to check your RAM voltage and make sure it is in spec. Motherboards don't always do it right if you let them set it automatically. If you don't have it set to "Auto", and it is the right voltage for the sticks, then ignore this.

 

[jalebi]

There is one question that hasn't been asked. When you installed Win 7, did you do a clean install? If you did an upgrade from Vista, then that is your problem.

Yeah, it was a clean install because it was a new system. Even when I reinstalled, I did it clean.

The first thing I would do is to check your RAM voltage and make sure it is in spec. Motherboards don't always do it right if you let them set it automatically. If you don't have it set to "Auto", and it is the right voltage for the sticks, then ignore this.

Will do - I did seem to be having some RAM issues....

EDIT: the voltage was set to AUTO (which I think meant it was at the "standard" 1.50), but I have put it to 1.70 like it should have been

 

[DeaconFrost]

Will do - I did seem to be having some RAM issues....

That's why I suggested testing the memory. If you run a long loop with Memtest, you'll know for sure if your memory is having any issues. Bad memory, or misconfigured memory will easily cause a system to be unstable, regardless of the OS installed.

The mere fact you say you are having memory issues proves it is a wild, cop-out guess to blame the OS. 99.99% of all perceived OS issues are caused by something other than the OS.

 

[jalebi]

Will do - I did seem to be having some RAM issues....

That's why I suggested testing the memory. If you run a long loop with Memtest, you'll know for sure if your memory is having any issues. Bad memory, or misconfigured memory will easily cause a system to be unstable, regardless of the OS installed.

The mere fact you say you are having memory issues proves it is a wild, cop-out guess to blame the OS. 99.99% of all perceived OS issues are caused by something other than the OS.

I ran a prime95 test to stress the RAM a week ago and it worked fine (i only ran it for an hour or so though, not 8). I'm going to do a full memtest for 8 hours tonight.

Could wrongly configured RAM cause issues with drivers "mismanaging PTES" or creating a "page fault in a non paged area"?

I'm not blaming the OS but perhaps its a compatibility issue. I have another indentical computer and it works 100% fine on it. As someone from the drivers subforum said "drivers are strange things, they work on one sytem but not another"

 

[DeaconFrost]

I ran a prime95 test to stress the RAM a week ago and it worked fine (i only ran it for an hour or so though, not 8). I'm going to do a full memtest for 8 hours tonight.

Prime95 isn't a memory test, though. I would run Memtest at a bare minimum of 8 hours, and maybe even let it go overnight.

Could wrongly configured RAM cause issues with drivers "mismanaging PTES" or creating a "page fault in a non paged area"?

That's certainly possible. Misconfigured memmory can cause hundreds of thousands of different issues.

I'm not blaming the OS

Sure you did. Why else would you think changing the OS would solve the issue? We've seen that line of thinking on just about every forum board around. Problem? Must be Windows' fault. I don't mean to sound like an ass, or that I'm trying to be a *****...it just gets way to frustrating to see way too many people blame the OS and want to swap it out, rather than find the true cause of an issue. If you have misconfigured memory, for example, you'll have issues on any OS. So swapping them would just prolong the issue.

I have another indentical computer and it works 100% fine on it. As someone from the drivers subforum said "drivers are strange things, they work on one sytem but not another"

If they were truly identical, they'd work the same. You either have a setting configured differently between then two computers, or the unstable one has a hardware issue. Whoever told you that about drivers doesn't really have a clue on how to troubleshoot an issue. If the same driver works on one computer, but not on another identical one...something else is the issue, such as a misconfigured setting in the BIOS, hardware error, etc.

 

[jalebi]

I suppose attacking the OS for my problems was a bit rash, but isn't it possible that the drivers would just work better with XP or Win 7 32bit? (assuming it is even somewhat software related).

Another strange thing is that I had some issues/BSODs with my first install (Win 7 ultimate x64) but different ones with my second (Win 7 Pro). Wouldn't faulty hardware cause the same problems across the two installs?

 

[gregrocker]

Google the repeat errors in Event Viewer>Admin View to find how others have resolved them. Check also the Performance Log on Advanced Tools page accessed by clicking through WEI score link on Computer>Properties. Check for cued issues at top of Tools page, Generate a System Health Report.

Type problems in Start Search box to see if issues sent to MS may have had solutions returned.

Those of us who have been with Win7 through beta watched as the bugs were ironed out and it shaped into a perfectly balanced OS. Please understand that for someone to ask about going back to XP sounds to us as ridiculous as a neighbor saying he's going back to his Dodge Dart because the computer in his Lexus has errors. Plug in the scanner, i.e. read your logs, test memory, HD, swap drivers until it's fixed.

 

[DeaconFrost]

but isn't it possible that the drivers would just work better with XP or Win 7 32bit? (assuming it is even somewhat software related).

Which OS do you think current drivers for current hardware are optimized for? Windows 7, or an OS that came out nearly a decade ago?

Wouldn't faulty hardware cause the same problems across the two installs?

Absolutely not, especially if the problem is memory related. In fact, a sign of a memory issue is random errors. it sounds to me like you are just trying to rationalize going back to XP. If that's really what you want to do, none of us are going to stop you. But if you are having a hardware issue, once again, you won't solve it with another OS.

 

[jalebi]

I've performed a memtest for 10 hours overnight and it passed the test 10 times with no errors. I don't think the RAM is a problem.

One thing I did find curious was that the timings were 9-9-9-24 instead of the 9-9-9-20 detailed on the website. Should I change it?

Also, memtest clocked the speed at 667mhz instead of 1333mhz. The BIOS lists the setting at AUTO - should I change it to 1333mhz manually?

 

[Mellon Head]

I've performed a memtest for 10 hours overnight and it passed the test 10 times with no errors. I don't think the RAM is a problem.

What memtest software did you use?

One thing I did find curious was that the timings were 9-9-9-24 instead of the 9-9-9-20 detailed on the website. Should I change it?

No! Leave the timings alone until you've solved the problem. Otherwise you introduce more variables to the troubleshooting process.

Also, memtest clocked the speed at 667mhz instead of 1333mhz. The BIOS lists the setting at AUTO - should I change it to 1333mhz manually?

That speed is normal. Remember, DDR means "Double Data Rate." That means two memory operations for every clock cycle. The 667 MHz is the actual clock speed of the memory, and that number is meant to be doubled to get the effective clock rate of 1333 MHz.

 

[Keiichi25]

I agree with Mellon - Never tweak anything hardware wise unless you know what is going on in the first place, in fact, if you can keep things at base level first, the better.

Diagnosing any problem means not having a bajillion things being tweaked, as it is a fine balance and as his signature stated, two ways to do overclock - Careful and stupid. While you may not be doing Overclocking, the one thing that is known issue is AMD has their own set of 'tweaks' and sometimes requires looking at specific things at base level first than trying to tweak memory or other things.

Also, I sort of agree with Frost a little, but also disagree with the test... From past experience with Win 95 installs, mostly due to memory issues, some mem tests will show 'good' but also don't really hit the system as hard as Windows generally does. The better question to ask at this moment is now looking at the memory itself. You have 4 gigs of DDR3 Ram from your initial posting, but then you state it is DDR2. This leads me to wonder if you are using 2 sticks of RAM from the same manufacture or 2 different ram manufacture mem. If the later, it could be an issue with how the memory bus is trying to handle the two different manufactures of ram. While ideally, it shouldn't be the case, I've had more problems with memory not being the same brand/manufacture causing windows memory problems.

 

[jalebi]

I agree with Mellon - Never tweak anything hardware wise unless you know what is going on in the first place, in fact, if you can keep things at base level first, the better.

Diagnosing any problem means not having a bajillion things being tweaked, as it is a fine balance and as his signature stated, two ways to do overclock - Careful and stupid. While you may not be doing Overclocking, the one thing that is known issue is AMD has their own set of 'tweaks' and sometimes requires looking at specific things at base level first than trying to tweak memory or other things.

Also, I sort of agree with Frost a little, but also disagree with the test... From past experience with Win 95 installs, mostly due to memory issues, some mem tests will show 'good' but also don't really hit the system as hard as Windows generally does. The better question to ask at this moment is now looking at the memory itself. You have 4 gigs of DDR3 Ram from your initial posting, but then you state it is DDR2. This leads me to wonder if you are using 2 sticks of RAM from the same manufacture or 2 different ram manufacture mem. If the later, it could be an issue with how the memory bus is trying to handle the two different manufactures of ram. While ideally, it shouldn't be the case, I've had more problems with memory not being the same brand/manufacture causing windows memory problems.

The RAM is definitelty DDR3. It's 2 x 2gb of OCZ memory that came as a dual channel kit.

The problems seems to occur almost exclusively during games (or immediately after a reboot from a BSOD caused by games), but my graphics drivers are fine...

 

[DeaconFrost]

What kind of power supply are you using?

 

[jalebi]

What kind of power supply are you using?

This one