Universal Video Format?

[seekermeister]

There are so many format options available, when I'm given a choice, I'm not certain which to download or use. I realize that each of them has their own fortes, and some players may not like some of them, but is there one that is more usable than the others, in terms of compatibility, burnability, or simply playing?

 

[windowsapple]

Hm, AVI would be the best way to go. (MOV isn't good because you need another program to play it.)

 

[seekermeister]

Your suggestion caused me to Google and find this"

Since its introduction in the early 90s, new computer video techniques have been introduced which the original AVI specification did not anticipate.
AVI does not provide a standardised way to encode aspect ratio information, with the result that players cannot select the right one automatically (though it may be possible to do so manually).[2]
There are several competing approaches to including timecode in AVI files, which affects usability of the format in film and television postproduction (although it is widely used). An equivalent of the Broadcast Wave extensions, designed to standardise postproduction metadata for wave audio files, has not emerged.
AVI is not intended to contain variable frame rate material. Workarounds for this limitation increase overhead dramatically.
AVI was not intended to contain video using any compression technique which requires access to future video frame data beyond the current frame. Approaches exist to support modern video compression techniques (e.g. MPEG-4) which rely on this functionality, although this is beyond the intent of the original specification and may cause problems with playback software which does not anticipate this use.
AVI cannot contain some specific types of VBR data (such as MP3 audio at sample rates below 32KHz) reliably.
Overhead for AVI files at the resolutions and frame rates normally used to encode feature films is about 5 MB per hour of video, the significance of which varies with the application.

More recent container formats (such as Matroska, Ogg and MP4) solve all these problems, although software is freely available to both create and correctly replay AVI files which use these more recent techniques.

Audio Video Interleave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not disputing what you have said, because I know so little about the subject and am still trying to piece things together, but at first glance, I'm not convinced that this is the format that I'm looking for. I didn't see it mentioned in the linked article, but can AVI be used to burn a movie to DVD?

 

[seekermeister]

The comments that I quoted above, caused me to Google Mastroska, and I found another Wikipedia article, which I found of interest:

Matroska - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It mentions compatibility with PowerDVD, which is my preferred player, but it sounds as though it isn't compatible with optical drives, except some Blu Ray players, which I don't have.

 

[Bill2]

AVI is IMO the easiest to work with. It plays natively in windows, there are numerous apps available (both free and commercial) that'll convert AVI to dvd which you can then play in a standalone dvd player and again there are numerous apps to generally manipulate AVI- join, split, demux, mux etc.

MKV (matroska) is a superior container compared to AVI (more quality in less space), but it is relatively difficult to work with. I use the 32 bit CCCP codec, but for the 64 bit pack , the last I checked all the components of CCCP hadnt been updated. Alco, converting from MKV to any other format is somewhat involved. MKV thumbnails in win7 are troublesome.

If you want to play on the computer alone, MKV could be managed at least for 32 bit.

 

[mitchell65]

Hi seekermeister
In your second post you spoke of burning a file to a DVD. Can I ask what you want to do with the DVD? Play on a DVD through a TV, if so is it standard definition or HD? Or do you just wish to play the video clip on your PC?

 

[seekermeister]

Hi seekermeister
In your second post you spoke of burning a file to a DVD. Can I ask what you want to do with the DVD? Play on a DVD through a TV, if so is it standard definition or HD? Or do you just wish to play the video clip on your PC?

Movie DVD through HDTV.

 

[mitchell65]

Hi seekermeister
In your second post you spoke of burning a file to a DVD. Can I ask what you want to do with the DVD? Play on a DVD through a TV, if so is it standard definition or HD? Or do you just wish to play the video clip on your PC?

Movie DVD through HDTV.

To create a DVD in standard format you need to use an authoring program. I believe Winows movie maker can do this but I don't use that program so can't guide you without downloading it (Windows Movie maker is no longer shipped with Windows 7)
There are many programs out there that will do this and most are available on a TBYB (Try before you buy) basis.
It is not just a case of burning a video file to a disc. The program will render the video file/s to a format of two folders. One VIDEO_TS and one AUDIO_TS. The video one will contain many VOB and IFO files. Just put a commercial DVD into your PC and right click on the "D" drive (if that's your dvd/c drive letter) and click open this should reveal the folder and file structure. Come back if you need further help but I am pushed today and may not get back here until early evening.

 

[seekermeister]

I appreciate the explanation, but that isn't my question, because I basically understand how to burn a .vob. It is more of what file format requires the least steps to reach the .vob stage. I don't know if it is exactly the same, but I do have Windows Live Movie Maker, and I doubt that it can be used for making the .vob, because the only format that it saves in is .wimp.

I realize that my question isn't very clear. That's because my thinking on the subject is equally unclear. For example, when downloading a movie from Internet Archive, it usually offers to do so in either Ogg, MPEG4 or DivX. Other programs for dealing with such files may use other formats. I'm looking for a format that is a common denominator, which can be used either to play directly on the PC or convert to .vob for burning. However, the Wikipedia link that I posted above, says that Matroska can be used to burn DVDs with instead of .vob, if one has the right hardware. I'm not certain that a MKV file can be played directly on the PC or not.

I'm not sure that this is any clearer or if I'm just rambling.

EDIT: After taking a second look, it appears that Windows Live Movie Maker can burn a DVD. Therefore I assume that it converts it to .vob as you said.

 

[mitchell65]

Yes I'm sure that WMM con create a standard DVD. Make sure thought that it is set for NTSC and not PAL. Given the choice I would go for a MPEG file but suggest you first look at what files WMM will import and then try a short clip of each compatible formats to see which saves to the best quality, bearing in mind that the better the quality the lower the compression but the bigger the file size will be! Then another trial and error exercise, use a DVD+RW disc and try burnong each file formet to a DVD and see which works best for you!
If you use an MPEG file have a look at WMM and see if in the burn properties there is an option to "Not re-render compliant MPEG files" If there is check that as this will stop unnecessary rendering giving you a better quality.
Maxim. The least amount of rendereing the better as this is what dengrates the quality.

 

[Tepid]

VideoHelp.com

That's the first place you should go.
There are all kinds of How To's out there.

Video creation, rendering and burning can be a subjective thing.

How are you retrieving the video (more like where from)? TV, DVD, Home Movie? What's the source?

AVI is uncompressed video, and is the medium used when you need to do real editing, such as cleaning up video, splicing, doing effects etc.

If you are just trying to take video and convert it to work through DVD.
Then your best medium to start with, (other than trying to convert to HD) is MPEG and not AVI.

You will need to do a lot of research and learning on the subject to really be able to just jump in and do it.
There isn't much to it really, but it's not a straight point and click process unless you do give WMM a try, which does work. You will still need to do some reading and get a good understanding of the process of Video ripping/conversion and DVD Creation.

Check out that site I posted,,, I could write a full blog thread on the subject, but it can get complicated and I can't make time for that. Understanding the process is the first step to simplifying the process, even if you are only going to use Windows Media Maker.

 

[seekermeister]

VideoHelp.com

That's the first place you should go.
There are all kinds of How To's out there.

Video creation, rendering and burning can be a subjective thing.

How are you retrieving the video (more like where from)? TV, DVD, Home Movie? What's the source?

DVD, TV and internet.

AVI is uncompressed video, and is the medium used when you need to do real editing, such as cleaning up video, splicing, doing effects etc.

Since I don't create videos or movies, I don't anticipate the need to do any editting or authoring...except possibly to cut commercials out of something recorded from TV. Therefore, AVI may be useful on occassion, but not too often.

If you are just trying to take video and convert it to work through DVD.
Then your best medium to start with, (other than trying to convert to HD) is MPEG and not AVI.

You will need to do a lot of research and learning on the subject to really be able to just jump in and do it.
There isn't much to it really, but it's not a straight point and click process unless you do give WMM a try, which does work. You will still need to do some reading and get a good understanding of the process of Video ripping/conversion and DVD Creation.

Check out that site I posted,,, I could write a full blog thread on the subject, but it can get complicated and I can't make time for that. Understanding the process is the first step to simplifying the process, even if you are only going to use Windows Media Maker.

Something that I'm not clear on is how MPEG is identified in all cases. There is MPEG 2, MPEG 4, MPG and I can't remember if there are any other possibilities...are these all names for MPEG?

 

[Tepid]

Well,, Like I said,, you best resource for all of this is going to be VideoHelp.com

Every question you have will be answered out there.

This might help.... after spending roughly 100+ hours learning the process and the best way of doing all this,....

My 3 main tools...

Huappauge is my capture card, so I use their software WinTV to capture from TV.
but I use Win 7 32-Bit as the Huappauge software is not x64 compatible.

Womble MPEG Editor - to edit commercials, this would need tested under 7 x64, it works on x32. The software is not free.

DVDLab - also not free, for creating/authoring DVD's

VirtualDUB and TMPeG Editor among other various tools to do video rendering and conversion when needed.

There is no strait forward single answer to any of this that anyone can give.
You need to research this and find what works for you.

VideoHelp.com

 

[Borg 386]

DVD Flick is a free, good program that converts just about any format into DVD. It has authoring tools and many options.

DVD Flick

Please note that this runs best when compatibility mode is set to XP Service Pack 3

 

[seekermeister]

DVD Flick is a free, good program that converts just about any format into DVD. It has authoring tools and many options.

DVD Flick

Please note that this runs best when compatibility mode is set to XP Service Pack 3

Thanks, I just downloaded and installed the program. It looks good on the surface, particularly about it's format compatibility. Since I didn't find a specific list, I guess one would just have to try a format to see how it goes.

Eliminating the burning and authoring aspects, have you found that any particular format is more useful than others?

 

[Borg 386]

Hey seekermeister,

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]DVD Flick supports these video file types:
AVI, FLV, HDMOV, MKV, MJPG, MPG, M2V, MP4, M4V, NSV, NUT, QT, MOV, RM, SMK, OGM, WMV, ASF, 3GP, 3G2.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

I think this may help you out in getting started, there's actually a good amount of options under the hood:

DVD FLICK Guide - AVI to DVD, FLV to DVD, HDMOV to DVD, MKV to DVD, MJPG to DVD, MPG to DVD, M2V to DVD, MP4 to DVD, M4V to DVD, NSV to DVD, NUT to DVD, QT to DVD, MOV to DVD, RM to DVD, SMK to DVD, OGM to DVD, WMV to DVD, ASF to DVD, 3GP to DVD, 3G2

The only thing I've seen in different formats is the quality, the better the quality, the better the DVD will look for the most part.

 

[seekermeister]

Hey seekermeister,

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]DVD Flick supports these video file types:
AVI, FLV, HDMOV, MKV, MJPG, MPG, M2V, MP4, M4V, NSV, NUT, QT, MOV, RM, SMK, OGM, WMV, ASF, 3GP, 3G2.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

I think this may help you out in getting started, there's actually a good amount of options under the hood:

DVD FLICK Guide - AVI to DVD, FLV to DVD, HDMOV to DVD, MKV to DVD, MJPG to DVD, MPG to DVD, M2V to DVD, MP4 to DVD, M4V to DVD, NSV to DVD, NUT to DVD, QT to DVD, MOV to DVD, RM to DVD, SMK to DVD, OGM to DVD, WMV to DVD, ASF to DVD, 3GP to DVD, 3G2

The only thing I've seen in different formats is the quality, the better the quality, the better the DVD will look for the most part.

Yes, those lists do seem to cover the gambit, at least so far as I have considered. Your last statement seems to address my question, but without stating a preference. I guess that I will just have to experiment.

 

[Borg 386]

Hey seekermeister,

Well, I really don't have a preference to any files. However, if I can get something in a higher quality, I usually do. But more then not, higher quality = bigger file size.

I know that if you burn, for instance, a .FLV file onto a DVD that the quality won't be all that great.

Most AVI files come out not bad looking, and indeed, most torrented movies are in AVI format, although that is changing with faster & faster net speeds.

It just depends on how much time & effort you want to put into something and how well you want it to look. To make a DVD movie out of a good movie file will consume a lot more processing/computer time then a low quality movie file.

I guess that I will just have to experiment.

Yes, that's the key, in some cases. Just be aware that sometimes no matter what file format you choose, if there's problems with the file or it's poor quality, you're not going to be able to make anything good out of it.

Hope that helped you out some.

 

[seekermeister]

That raises the question of when the source of the movie is Flash, and it is converted to a different format, will the end result be ~ the same as the source in terms of quality or is there an improvement? Also, if the source is in the standard full screen resolution, can it be reformatted to a wide screen resolution successfully?

 

[Tepid]

Keep in mind that no matter what you do when converting video.. you can do some clean up.. but generally speaking.....

Garbage in = Garbage Out

Sometime,, it is Ok going in,, and degraded coming out...

Rarely ever,, Good going in Better coming out.

You can and will (most of the time) have sightly degraded video in conversion.
98% of the time, it is not noticeable. It really depends on what is be converted to what. (ie. AVI to MPG will not have noticeable degradation. FLV to AVI probably will.)

can it be reformatted to a wide screen resolution successfully?

No, it will be stretched and squashed or have a black border.