Upgrade advice

[Darician]

Yeah, 7 is pretty cool in that regard. I have a PC at work that has a Pentium 4 3 Ghz CPU that supports Hyper-Threading with 1 GB of DDR400 RAM. I used to run Vista x86 on it and it was a dog, very sluggish at a lot of things. Now upgraded to 7 x86 and it runs smoothly and faster than either Vista or XP ever did.

 

[Darician]

Whose looking for cheap, I am looking for balance, I spent hours looking at reviews and other sites reviews of hardware, that X3 445 is excellent for a typical user, not us 3d gaming addicted chuckleheads.

i7s supposedly are superior to the AMDs right now. i7s get rather confusing, 1156 i7s and 1366 i7s are not created equal, and how important is TDP to you, the techie babble never ends.

I am hoping to have my wife's PC survive long enough for the i7-950s to drop to $300ish range, where they aint atm, but that's just me.

I am totally biased toward which CPU is at the best price point when I am buying...

AMD just came out with there new core Sixes , you could get one of those

Nah, for that I'd just get a Core i7.

 

[NTFS]

Intel again . . . .

 

[Darician]

Don't get me wrong, I use AMD for a lot of my customer's builds as they generally want cheap PCs and all they do is use e-mail and browse the web so for them, it makes perfect economic sense to choose AMD. However, for my personal builds, I've always preferred Intel and still do. I stuck with them during the Netburst era, why wouldn't I stick with them now that they actually have good CPUs.

Besides, if I went AMD for my personal build, I would never hear the end of it from my colleagues. But back to the Core 2 Duo E7500, anyone here use it or something close to that performance level? If so, what do you think of it?

 

[Night Hawk]

Most of the time I only hear how AMDs run cooler then Intels as a rule. But to swap over now would entail a full build consideration to get the most out of a new case.

As far as Vista it was simply Windows growing a bit too fast but proved to be far more stable then XP ever thought of being. The main mistake MS made originally was setting the minimum specs too low for people running older systems! That resulted in all the negative reaction. 7 had to take a second look to become the performance orientated OS this time around and shows it on the old stuff!

 

[Darician]

Most of the time I only hear how AMDs run cooler then Intels as a rule. But to swap over now would entail a full build consideration to get the most out of a new case.

As far as Vista it was simply Windows growing a bit too fast but proved to be far more stable then XP ever thought of being. The main mistake MS made originally was setting the minimum specs too low for people running older systems! That resulted in all the negative reaction. 7 had to take a second look to become the performance orientated OS this time around and shows it on the old stuff!

That's true. As some reviewers have said, Vista's true worth is shown in the fact that Windows 7 is built with a lot of Vista's underpinnings (drivers, compatibility, etc.) But you're absolutely right, Vista definitely proved far more stable than XP could ever dream of being.

 

[Night Hawk]

When first getting into Vista it certainly wasn't the new style that caught notice here so much as the no longer putting up with this or that blue screen problem! The surprize advantage seen with the 32bit 7 however was not just backward to Vista compatibility but even using XP drivers for hardwares and watching them work!

At first it was the XP drivers/application for a tv tuner card on the 32bit 7 beta that sounded off and later as well as just lately going through an old build seeing even older drivers go right on 7 and work! I had been wondering how to advise people running the "old stuff" if they weren't able to buy all new how to upgrade to 7 when no new updates even for Vista were seen. 7 proved a champ once more there!

 

[NTFS]

Wouldn't new hardware for 7 make more sense? If you have a new OS you might as well have new hardware supported under 7 with more features.

 

[Darician]

Not necessarily as you can't always afford it. I have a printer from 2005 along with an older scanner from 2003 and I'm not going to trash them for a new OS.

 

[NTFS]

I had an old printer, its now dead. New Canon MP640 works perfectly with 7.

 

[Night Hawk]

The latest version of Windows tends to see a larger driver base included for existing devices such as printers, scanners, network cards, and other devices while the older versions like XP as one main example required that you chased around looking for drivers when lacking a software/driver disk say lost while moving or damaged somehow.

I plan to set up a few old cases for student use where the older version may not support new programs as another example or someone on student budget can't simply rush out to buy or build a brand new system this fall. What is the option?

Run the new version on the "old stuff" at least until the new hardwares can be bought. For one family having had plans to buy a brand new machine on payments for their kids for homework and educational purposes a financial upset will prevent that. All they need is a 7 upgrade disk on an old XP build to see that work until financially in better shape. Not the ideal but it works.

 

[Darician]

Now I see what got me confused, I didn't realize there was a Conroe E6600 and a Wolfsdale E6600, *twaps Intel*.

OK So either new mobo that takes DDR2-667 and CPU.

or

Whatever CPU, Mobo and RAM can be had all 3 for $200 out the door max.

I think I'd wait till the budget was $300, it's just such better hardware with that jump, but I am still going to squeeze and see what's possible.

Yeah, I slept on it and you were right, $300 certainly makes it more attractive so I stretched out my budget and ordered my components. Went LGA 1156. An MSI H55-G43 with 4 GB DDR3 1600 RAM and a Core i3 530 2.93 Ghz CPU. They're listed below:

Motherboard: Newegg.com - MSI H55-G43 LGA 1156 Intel H55 HDMI ATX Intel Motherboard
CPU: Newegg.com - Intel Core i3-530 Clarkdale 2.93GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I3530
Memory: Newegg.com - OCZ Special Ops Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3SOE1600LV4GK

I realized I was going to use my old components for an old PC to resell them and since I would have to buy more DDR2 RAM to replace the RAM I thought I was going to reuse, I figured I may as well buy DDR3 as buying more DDR2 at this time feels like a waste of money as I have no boards to use them on.

 

[Night Hawk]

I see you made the decision to simply upgrade while the prices are low. As far as having a board to run DDR2 memory on that's the problem seen with the old case here presently. Going with a newer board that still takes DDR2 800 memory would mean swapping the cpu and video card and might as well upgrade the entire case to simply sit around as a spare presently unless simply finding a replacement board.

Let us know how things go when you get the new hardwares in just the same since you should notice a big difference.

 

[Darician]

Well, I got my parts, installed them and hooked them up only to find that they don't work. I found I needed an 8-pin connector for the CPU for Power so I bought a converter for a 4-PIN Molex to convert to an 8-Pin CPU Connector, plugged it in today and again it didn't work. What happens is once everything's plugged in, I go to turn on the computer and it turns on but nothing shows up on screen (tried with both IGP and discrete video at different times). After about 10 seconds, the computer will turn off then back on again but again, nothing will show up and screen and this sequence will continue indefinitely. Fans are working and everything seems to light up, no beeps (though my system never had beeps due to lack of a PC Speaker) but nothing shows up.

Obviously, I am quite livid at this point and have turned all sorts of shades of color. Now, before I chuck my case over a bridge and smash it with a sledgehammer, do you think a new power supply would fix the issue?

 

[bobkn]

I looked at the manual for your MSI mainboard.

It's a little odd in that it says that it's OK to use a 20 pin ATX PSU rather than a 24 pin, but it says nothing about the 8 pin 12V CPU connector.

I think it would be OK to use a 4 pin 12V connector, as your CPU is rated at 73W. (It may have to be plugged into the connector properly, though. The last couple of Asus boards I've purchased came with caps that covered the disused 4 pins.)

All that I can suggest is trying a minimal install: one memory DIMM, no drives, just graphics, mouse, and keyboard.

 

[Night Hawk]

On newer supplies you should two 4pin plugs labeled cpu1 and cpu2. You don't convert from one of those 12v feeds using an adapter. The matched pair should be used together.

As for the main power connector simply plug the 4pin addon plug in along with the main 20 for that and call it a day. Depending on the video card you will likely need the additional feed plugged in there too. But without both of the cpu feeds or one 8pin feed provided with some supplies the board won't post. The safety switch on most boards will prevent that.

 

[Darician]

Yep, after trying a whole bunch of things including bare bones connections (with just one memory stick and basic devices) I gave up and caved in. I bought a 550W Power Supply with the 8-Pin Connector: Newegg.com - GIGABYTE SUPERB GE-P450P-C2 550W ATX12V V2.3 80 PLUS Certified Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply

As angry as it made me to spend the extra money, in the long run I think it'll work out and be worth it. It should arrive at my house tomorrow and I'll let you know how the Core i3 works out with that motherboard. I certainly hope it does and next, I have to reinstall Windows 7 x64.

 

[Night Hawk]

I hope it does! I had a supply take out a brand new board and ended ordering both!

When the supply apparently the cap shorted to ground and tripped a 20a outlet just when going to press the power button. Talk about fuming a little at seeing that...

Meanwhile I'll be ordering another item for another case inprogress. When first replacing the memory seen on the recommended list from not being a low voltage series the new dimms then saw a heat shield that extends above the dimms making it impossible to sit the hsf down flush as it should be. Order a new one!

On the second build being a different type that same hsf sticks up too high off of the board where you can't place the side cover back on. The option is run with the stock hsf(no thanks) or order a smaller size hsf for the micro atx case.

(That will update a family member who had two complaints on the old mid tower being too large and the old XP boat being too slow! :roflmao

problems, problems, problems! Let us know anyways.

 

[Darician]

Well, got the new power supply today, installed it. And the computer still did the same flipping thing, which after trying all the other components can only lead me to one possible conclusion, my motherboard is DOA. Seeing as it's unfortunately Friday, I'm sending it back tomorrow and probably won't get a new motherboard shipped out to me until Tuesday, which means I'll get it at the earliest on Wednesday.

Obviously I am beyond disappointed at this point but I do want that sweet Core i3 performance once I'm done. And if after I get the new one, things still don't work, who'd like to buy an i3 and some DDR3 RAM? Either that, or if you hear about a man who is in a high-speed chase demanding that things just work, you'll know who it is.

 

[Wishmaster]

AMD is certainly the way to go for a budget system.
Intel is usually the better performer.

But something to consider.
Although socket 775 may seem obsolete, dont rule it out.
They are still viable builds. Especially if you can get a good price.

Socket 775 is not exactly Obsolete or worthless to build. The higher end ones can still outperform most of AMDs offerings.


Thats not saying AMD is bad.
In fact, I use them for builds quite often, especially for those on a budget. AMD makes a good product and at a good price point. I have nothing against them.


AMD does win in the Memory bandwidth department.