Upgrading current sys with Vista, to W7 - A history and some questions

[mark4x4]

Hello I just joined this forum and wanted to ask a few questions.

I am currently running Vista and it has always crashed, programs "Stop Responding" constantly, but revive after a minute. Occasionally I have to go to Task Manager and close certain programs. Since 2007, I have had to use revert back to a save spot, a handful of times which resolved all the issues, except Stop Responding programs. I think my multi-tasking bogs down the 2 core cpu and 4gb ram.

I was waiting for the new windows to come out and I keep hearing they bombed again. I am concerned about security, I dont want Bill collecting my data. Plus it seems Bill is going towards the monthly pay scheme for programs now. Anyway I hear nothing but rave reviews of Windows 7 even though its old. Here is the deal, I upgraded the 2007'ish HP Pavilion desktop PSU to a 650W unit, installed a GTX650 for the World of Tanks online game. I am the power user of the family, example right now I got 10 tabs open on this window (mls property x2, newegg, amazon, amazon, amazon, windows forum, hotmail and this page. Next page I have 4 tabs of ebay, 2 basic webpages for ebikes, parts page. I have World of Tanks open and running, and a word document. I have CCleaner, GeFroce, Windows Security alerts, wifi, sound on the bottom right. This is very typical of my use, sometimes I have more pages/tabs open. Not playing video at all. So far today its not crashing. I wait a few minutes it usually comes back to life.

I got
4GB of DDR2 RAM
MSI MS-7548 (Aspen) Chipset: AMD 780G 4 x DDR2Front side bus speeds: Up to 5200MT/s (5.2 GT/s)

• Processor socket: AM2+
• Expansion Slots:
  • 1 PCI Express x16 graphics card slot
  • 3 PCI Express x1 slots
  
  

AMD Athlon X2 5050e Operating speed: Up to 2.6 GHz 2 core
4GB PC2-6400 MB/sec

• Size: 320 GB
• Interface: SATA
• Transfer rating: 3.0 Gb/sec
• Rotational Speed: 7200 RPM

I want to upgrade this system rather then buy a refurbished unit with W7 already installed.


Here are my costs, for upgraded components,

All prices in Canada, $1.25CDN = $1.00USD
Mobo - $100-$150 I am looking for OC capabilities, DDR3 1866, 2133 speeds and above, 32GB seems to be average, some have 64GB capacities, I'd lean towards 64GB.

AM3+ CPU $150 - $200 Dont need graphics so this chip suits my needs, Ive read its pretty good.

RAM 8GB $60 - $110 Would go 4GB or 8GB and upgrade a year or two later, with matching pairs.

SSDHD $60-$100 for 120GB and $100-$115 for 240GB Install my O/S and everything else, will stop defragging, buy Malwarebytes.

I found some cheap W7, for around $50-$60

So all in $400-$450, I would spend more on mobo, cpu 4 or 6 cores, low ram upgrade later.
For a refurbished unit I would be spending $300-$350 maybe $400. With slower DDR3 ram, older cpu's etc etc etc.

Is there a way I can buy these Windows 7 programs online from newegg, tigerdirect, ebay, amazon, and when received, phone Microsoft and see if they are fresh W7 by that code you need to install?
Everywhere else sells them at $150, occasionally $120.

Is it worth buying 2 or 3 copies of W7 for future upgrades of the Motherboard and CPU?

Also I wonder if I can image the fresh install with all the updates, patches, dirvers etc right off the bat. Image the HD, then every couple years or every year, revert back to image, cleaning everything up. Would that make a difference?

When I buy the CPU, MB and RAM, do I need to spend more money on cooling for CPU, or does that come with the CPU package?

I have used Linux based systems before, Ubuntu was a good one I used on a 15 year old laptop, I used the one that looked like windows. XUbuntu I used and liked it, easy to use. There must be a way that I can have W7 and XUbuntu loaded on the same computer. Then I can surf the web all I want on XUbuntu and when I want to play World of Tanks, switch somehow or does that require a reboot?

With my style of desktop usage, would a 6 core help more, or is that more for specialized photo/video editing and software written for those cores? World of Tanks online game is only a one-core game.


Thats all the questions I have off hand, I know I have more. But Vista sucks, it really does.

Anyways thanks for your time in reading and answering, I really do appreciate it.

 

[Barman58]

Microsoft no longer sells Windows 7, you may find some legit copies on-line, though these are likely to be OEM licenses, and they are often treated as a premium item so prices are set accordingly. The issue with an OEM copy is that these are Tied to the hardware they are first installed with and cannot legally be transferred to new hardware, (Motherboards are considered new hardware so if you do install windows 7 do it after you have your new MB installed).

As for cooling the processor, it depends on the package you get, Some include basic cooling, some include more advanced, some include just the processor, (not even including thermal paste)

 

[whs]

I saw this Windows 7 for $108. Looked like a decent deal.

Amazon.com: Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64bit, System Builder OEM DVD 1 Pack (New Packaging): Software

 

[mark4x4]

Is Windows 10 really that bad?
Is Windows 7 really worth upgrading? even though its end of service life is soon up.

Yeah Amazon has a ton of W7 64bit OEM's for $50, some say open package thats why I am a little concerned.
I can find W7 OEM in the $110 to $150 range all day long. Seems to be the one good product MS put out. Amazon themselves sells W7 for $105.

Another bummer is I need to buy yet again a MS Office suite, probably home/student version 2013, or 2016 version. If 2016 isnt per month charge I am good.

I have seen copies sell for $300-$500-$750 for a non-OEM copy, I think those are called Full Retail, uninstall and reinstall all you want. I would assume MS cracked down on the P2P d/l of their programs.

So are Amazon.com sellers verified by amazon, or is it just like ebay, anybody can go on and sell?
I found one seller with a 100% rating, was thinking about buying 2 or 3 copies off that seller for future mobo/cpu upgrades. Thats kind of the meaning of the OEM sticking to the mobo/cpu.

 

[whs]

I would think that Amazon is safer than Ebay. But how safe I don't know.

 

[Barman58]

There are bad sellers on Amazon just like on eBay, If possible use Amazon direct rather than the Market Place Sellers. Both outlets offer a money back guarantee, I am an amazon Prime member and have found their refund system good and the same with eBay but there can be charges involved for returns by "normal" customers.

 

[torchwood]

Refurb

Try having a look at the business refurbs on your larger computer chains stores websites.

You'll probobly have to scroll down a bit as they dont really tend to make them front page items.
They tend to be pro/ultimate versions, but they will be legal.

Roy

 

[Layback Bear]

How about going to your local brick and mortar store and buying Windows 7.
Save your paper work in case their is a problem.

 

[paul1149]

I want to upgrade this system rather then buy a refurbished unit with W7 already installed

If you buy a used OEM system you get Windows essentially for free. You might get a distressed machine where the MB is still good for very cheap, then soup it up yourself. Of course, shipping on a desktop can amount to a bit.

I personally don't think there's THAT much difference between Vista and 7. If you're having problems maybe Vista needs a fresh install.

 

[mark4x4]

Well I have read many many times, that Vista was the worst o/s that MS ever put out, and I have read countless times as well that Windows 7 was the best o/s MS ever put out.

There seems to be a mass of people that say that. Whether its from personal experience (builders, programmers, Mr. Joe common guy etc.), towing the line people (agree just to agree get post count up or whatever), bloggers/twitterers (people that read then repeat what they read), then theres the flip-side, people that say the complete opposites. Like for example, Microsoft Community pages. Or Vista is exactly like Windows 7. Thats the first time I ever read that. Amazing.

I just read MS is doing away with numbered windows (windows 7, 8, 10 etc) and simply going towards "WINDOWS" with forced updates. This is very worry-some (worrisome?) for me. If I can get my programs to STOP "Not Responding" while I have a gazillion internet pages open, word, games then I would be happy and never need to upgrade the system again.

I have looked quite extensively at Refurbished units. And it seems lots of companies are dumping the same system onto the market. They dont list specs so I copy and paste product and get specs on the mobo, cpu, ram etc. Seems most are lower speed ram, 1333, cases are small (I want ATX and dont care about space saving as it sits under the desk).

I know that point is valid, buy refurbed unit for W7 64bit and save $50 to $150 on o/s software, look for a decent mobo, ram, cpu. I tell you this, once I find a decent refurb unit with specs I like and that are half decent in a ATX case, its the exact same cost, if not more, then it is for me to buy a MOBO($125), CPU($175), RAM($60), SSD-HD($60) AND WINDOWS 7($50-$120). Total is $450CDN.

Maybe instead of looking at the overall specs, I should look at individual parts, like look at the MOBO see what frequency of ram it supports, see what chipset the CPU is, and see if it has DDR3 with 4 slots plus see what frequency the DDR3 can be, is it maxed out at 1866, or 1333 etc etc etc. This overall might save me $100, maybe $150, tops $200. I will give it a go though.

 

[whs]

Vista was a good system. I used it from Febr.1, 2007 which was the first day it came out. I never had any problems but I know that there were some device driver problems. That was not a problem of the OS per se.

Most of the criticism came from people that had never used it and went purely by hearsay. See this example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXrKO33Rc2g

 

[Barman58]

I know in the UK that all the Box shifters made a killing when Vista was released, they re-badged old under-powered XP era systems as Vista compatible and sold them to the public. Then there were the greedy peripheral manufacturers like Creative Labs, who decided to not make any drivers for Vista but try to force upgraders to buy new equipment.

Due to the rut caused by XP being around long after it's end of life should have occurred meant that the technical staff were not prepared to change and so talked down Vista so as to keep XP and not have to re-educate themselves.

The bloggers jumped on the bandwagon and spouted nonsense about the OS most without ever even using vista, ( and certainly not on a Vista Spec'ed system), plus of course Bad News Sells blogs, and you need those clicks to attract the advertisers

 

[mark4x4]

That youtube video on Vista was interesting. But my Vista 64bit actually does crash, the programs do anyway. The programs crash pretty much everyday. Today, about 20 minutes ago I had a series of crashes where programs would not respond for minutes. But mind you I had 4 windows open, of 10 tabs or more. Not video. Maybe flash but I dont know what that is. I have mine set to warn me and I allow it or disallow.

Programs dont respond, I wait and a minute or 2 later they come back. The same amount of programs crashed during the night while I was sleeping, but firefox luckily was able to bring them back up.

Is Microsoft Windows 7 worth buying?
Because 8 and 8.1 bombed, there is nothing special about 10. This leans me time and time again back to Windows 7. Mind you I still have to buy an Office suite for an extra $100, but W7 can be had for $50-$100.


-----------------------------------------------


Another option I might try, is to find and buy a re-install disk for Vista 64 bit, then download a program that will get me the install code from my current Vista and reinstall onto a new SSD-HD. I can then look into what AM2+ CPU's I can use. Which happen to be
Athlon 64
Athlon 64 X2 - 2.6Mhz and 2 cores is my CPU.
Athlon II
Opteron
Phenom series
Phenom II series
The prices on ebay are $10-$20+, I assume 2 cores is X2 and 3 cores is X3 and 4 cores is X4 would fit mine, seems AM2+ is AM3! The best would be Phenom II series. So maybe I should look for a 3GHz+ quad-core.

AMD Phenom II x4 955 3 2 GHz Quad Core HDX955WFK4DGM Processor | eBay

I am at the top-end of DDR2 RAM PC-6400 @ 800MHz, 4GB XMS2-6400 TWIN2X Dual Channel DDR2 Kit (2 x 2GB) is $85.

So $100 for RAM and CPU, $55 for 120GB SSD-HD. Might breath new life in my old Vista system after-all.

 

[whs]

This is too bad that you have so much trouble with Vista. I originally used it from day one (Febr. 1, 2007) and never had the slightest problem. Now all my systems are Windows 7 and that one is rock solid too. I see absolutely no need to go to Windows 10 although I have it on a new piece of hardware that I bought recently.

 

[TrustMe]

I am using Vista every day on one of my laptops. I never had a problem with it. It's a shame Google Chrome is ending their support for Vista. I had to switch to FireFox.

 

[mark4x4]

Thats good you got W7 on all your stuff, seems you know your stuff with 25,000 posts.
Yeah Vista's has always done that on my system, glad to see others have not got the same expirience as me. I really dont know what could be causing my problems. I even installed the program called System Explorer to view CPU, RAM usage. I would see in certain circumstances the CPU for a short time would not work at all, the graph would be at 0. Then it would go back to normal, and do it again, then I wouldnt see that again. I seem to max out my 4GB of DDR2 RAM with all my internet open.

I am very very tempted to find a cheap Phenom II X4 CPU at 3GHz or higher. $35 shipped seems to be the norm.

Then I could look for some cheap DDR2 RAM as well. New seems expensive, newegg.ca 2GB for $25. Ebay, Kingston 2Gb is $2, $5, $8.




whs - Do you think that there will be a very low supply of MS Windows 7 64bit in the future?
Or are there so many W7 o/s out there and everyones buying the Win 8/8.1 or 10 that the supply will be plentiful and only "People-in-the-know" will want to buy Windows 7?

 

[whs]

whs - Do you think that there will be a very low supply of MS Windows 7 64bit in the future?
Or are there so many W7 o/s out there and everyones buying the Win 8/8.1 or 10 that the supply will be plentiful and only "People-in-the-know" will want to buy Windows 7?

I think Microsoft will make every effort to shorten the supply of Windows 7. They want to push Windows 10. But right now there are still a few sources.

Perfectly legal ways you can still get Windows 7 cheap (or even free) | ZDNet

 

[mark4x4]

OPTION #1

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit OEM is $50 USD

ASUS Motherboard AM3+ with 4 DIMMS DDR3 2133(O.C.)/1866 32GB max is $100 - $150 CDN

AMD AM3+ CPU is $150 - $200 CDN (FX-8000 and above series, doesnt matter what core, seems like its a marketing gimmick) "$165 CDN for a FX-8320E is 3.2GHz unlocked 4.0GHz chip with four floating point cores and eight integer cores (not truly a full eight-core part as marketed)"

DDR3 RAM - RipjawsX Series 8GB PC3-17000 Dual Channel DDR3 Kit (2 x 4GB) $73 CDN

I think this is a smoking hot setup. Better value then any refurbished unit or new system I can buy online. Most were $400 for a decent Ivy bridge setup, 4 core 3.2GHz with DDR3 1333 seemed to be the norm.

The way I look at it, I'd rather spend ~$400, get 8 cores, overclock to 4GHz, USB 3.0, W7 Pro, 8GB o.c. 2133 DDR3 RAM.

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OPTION #2

"find a cheap Phenom II X4 CPU at 3GHz or higher. $35 shipped seems to be the norm.

Then I could look for some cheap DDR2 RAM as well. New seems expensive, newegg.ca 2GB for $25. Ebay, Kingston 2Gb is $2, $5, $8."

$35 CPU + $30 DDR2 + $50 W7, still have Office 2007. Lets say $150 to be generous. Compared to $410 for an up to date, fresh system with no Office 2007.

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OPTION A - This gets me 2 computers. Why? retain my OEM Vista Office 2007.
Buy a used case and PSU both for $50. Download TeamViewer for free.

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OPTION B
Stop being a cheap-skate and buy Office 2007 for $50. Dont have to mess around with remote desktop software which will just confuse the other household members

 

[Layback Bear]

From your post #18

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit OEM is $50 USD

You are not going to buy a legal Windows 7 Pro for $50.00! A legal copy will cost around $140.00.

 

[mark4x4]

A legal copy? I see a ton at $50 - $80 on Amazon. So Amazon knowingly sells illegal copies?
How can I be sure its a legit copy of Windows 7, and a fresh unused Microsoft Windows 7 - code that you need to install the o/s?


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I decided not to buy AMD CPU instead going to buy Intel i3 6100 2 core, excellent value for money.

Read an article on a comparison and AMD did not peform well.
AMD had to use massive heat sinks to get CPU speed up to 4.5GHz and it used a ton of power.
Not that power is really a concern for a desktop ATX case.
It goes counter-intuitive because I thought 4 cores would be best. Not so.