Solved vid card shopping for an older PC

[Diosoth]

I have a Dell Optiplex 745 desktop model(motherboard info- Dell MM599/0MM599 OptiPlex 745 Desktop Motherboard) that seems unwilling to support low resolutions. The TV supports 640 x 480 and 800 x 600, but it seems the video drivers do not- any game I try to run at 640 fullscreen gives me an "invalid" error and even 800 doesn't seem to work(same blue TV screen with "invalid" error). I can't use Intel's own drivers as only the Dell package will install on this PC. This is a strong problem for running many older games, and even games like Cave Story only run at 640 x 480. I can run them windowed but it's too small a screen to play properly.

Likewise, while the TV supports various resolutions, the PC only supports a few of these, and certain resolutions only work at certain settings- 1280 x 1024 only works fine at 75Hz, whereas at 60Hz the screen has to refresh constantly after switching modes. 800 x 600 only works at 75Hz. It seems to prefer to be set at 1920 x 1080.

I'm thinking a way to bypass this is with a video card. Preferably cheap, something I won't need to slap a new PSU in. It also has to be a low profile PCI slot type card. Can I reasonably get a new video card that will offer better resolution support? HDMI/DVI out would be nice but not 100% necessary.

 

[AddRAM]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127557

 

[Diosoth]

I don't think I need anything that high end. This PC runs Windows XP and I use it for older gaming(even with a high end video card I still only have 2 GB of RAM and a Pentium D processor- if I was going to upgrade anything I'd upgrade my W7 PC). I also have a 280W PSU in it, with no idea if I can even stick another one in because Dell used a proprietary PSU.

If I put any video card in it'll have to be something older.

 

[AddRAM]

High End ??????????

It costs $35.00

OK, good luck then.

 

[Diosoth]

High End ??????????

It costs $35.00

OK, good luck then.

Price isn't the issue, that one needs a 400W PSU and I don't have that. I have 280W and due to the proprietary PSU and case I can't just swap in a new PSU.

Yes, I know, it's been suggested to swap to a new case. I don't have that kind of cash as it is, my budget's been strained due to dental work. I use this Dell PC for old games and Windows XP, it doesn't need to be current gen. I really want a cheapo vid card that can work off my current CPU, offering more desktop resolutions than the onboard Intel does, including 640 x 480 resolution which I need for certain games.

 

[Faladu]

Howdy,
Here's where I would go then:

Compuvest Corp.

DVI and HDMI and it's general use card and $29, Compuvest is reliable, I have ordered from them.

Generic OEM specs for that card you can find here:

GeForce 405 (OEM) | Specifications | GeForce

Power requirement: 25Watts! ...and notice it's resolutions, should be satisfactory.

 

[bobafetthotmail]

Price isn't the issue, that one needs a 400W PSU and I don't have that. I have 280W and due to the proprietary PSU and case I can't just swap in a new PSU.

400W for a 5450, lol :roflmao:. The makers usually massively overestimate the psu needed because they assume their card will go in a high-end system, and because they don't want trouble.

The card itself needs a meager 20 watts under full load. Here the relevant specs.

I've seen people that run HTPCs with it and 200-ish watt PSUs. Trying to guess your system and compiling this PSU calculator (I gave you a Core duo E6800, two 7200rpm hard drives and a DVD read/burner plus the 5450), and the result was that with everything running at max (with an aged PSU) you would need 240-ish watts TOTAL to run it.

Btw, if you slap a decent PCI soundcard on it you can make a good HTPC.

 

[AddRAM]

Ya, but the OP doesn`t want to hear it.

 

[bobafetthotmail]

none told him this detail. You talked of price, not that the 400w "requirement" is nonsense.

 

[AddRAM]

And I wasn`t even gonna try, you can lead a horse to water but....

 

[Lava King]

Diosoth,

I've run into the same problem on my HTPC, what you should look for is "GPU scaling." This allows the game or other app to run in (for example) 800x600 but the output to the TV/monitor will be scaled up by the GPU to the native resolution of the TV/monitor.

If your graphics control software doesn't have a scaling option, then perhaps a new graphics card would be your best bet. This Asus HD 5450 on Amazon is only $30US with free shipping if you're a Prime Member. As mentioned above by Faladu and Bobafetthotmail the actual power requirements for that card are minimal.

I have a Visiontek HD 4350 in my HTPC and have run some games in lower resolutions (for better frame rates) and used the GPU scaling to get full screen output. I can't tell you exactly where in Catalyst Control Center the scaling option is, I'm not near that machine at the moment.

 

[Diosoth]

Diosoth,

I've run into the same problem on my HTPC, what you should look for is "GPU scaling." This allows the game or other app to run in (for example) 800x600 but the output to the TV/monitor will be scaled up by the GPU to the native resolution of the TV/monitor.

If your graphics control software doesn't have a scaling option, then perhaps a new graphics card would be your best bet. This Asus HD 5450 on Amazon is only $30US with free shipping if you're a Prime Member. As mentioned above by Faladu and Bobafetthotmail the actual power requirements for that card are minimal.

I have a Visiontek HD 4350 in my HTPC and have run some games in lower resolutions (for better frame rates) and used the GPU scaling to get full screen output. I can't tell you exactly where in Catalyst Control Center the scaling option is, I'm not near that machine at the moment.

This seems to have solved my problem.

I wasn't totally certain if my onboard Intel chip(it's a GMA q965/q963, which is adequate for older or low-end games) supported this or not, I was ready to say "no" but some google searching told me each company refers to it differently and I found it as the aspect ratio option. After setting it to maintain aspect ratio(it was on "no borders") I tested with Westward, Cave Story and Gungirl 2, all of which ran fine at full screen but were giving me an invalid signal error before.

I'll keep the vid card suggestions above in mind should I ever decide to do an upgrade, but for now my issue is taken care of.

For now I've chosen to run in 1280 x 1024 resolution. It seems to handle switching to games much faster(and a lot of games/programs support that resolution). I think it might be because 1080p over VGA isn't really ideal? Yes I can run at that but resolution switching of any kind seems slow and sometimes pushes my desktop out of alignment, requiring I go into the TV menu and adjust the picture. The only installed game that even benefits from that high resolution is Shadow Man and a wide screen res only increases the field of view. Otherwise I'm not getting any benefit running at 1080p resolution.

 

[Lava King]

I'm glad it worked out for you!

I didn't have much luck using VGA for 1080p, I assumed that it was because VGA is an analog signal and the cheap cable I was using was doing horrible things. The colors weren't right, there was ghosting and other odd things happened. Switched to a DVI cable and the results were truly awesome.

 

[bobafetthotmail]

VGA can handle 1080p without any fuss. Your cable/port was probably damaged or defective.
I trashed quite a few cheap vga cables for similar issues.

 

[Diosoth]

Oh, 1920 x 1080 resolution worked fine, but it seems the TV I'm using doesn't handle switching screen resolutions very well- especially if there's a sharp difference between modes. The cable isn't even that old or worn- it was the one I was using for my W7 Gateway PC until I got an HDMI-DVI cable last month so I could swap the VGA to this Dell. I may buy a fresh one though, maybe a bit shorter, but I think the cable isn't the issue, it's the TV. I'm betting VGA support is thrown in as a courtesy but a dedicated monitor works better than a TV for PC use, given I have zero issues with my Gateway monitor.

Granted, this Dell has caused me more hassle than I cared for- HDD died after 2 days, had to swap in a fresh drive and force a cooling fan to fit inside Dell's proprietary case. I got it to play games that W7 can't handle well(incompatibility, 16-bit installers/programs, etc) but one thing after another. Now that I have the resolution issue solved I'm just wondering what else will go wrong.

 

[bobafetthotmail]

Should have written more clearly that I was talking to Lava King.

As a sidenote, why didn't you consider using a virtual machine on your main PC? Virtualbox and windows 2000 for example are both free.

 

[Diosoth]

I considered running an XP virtual machine, but it doesn't handle gaming. MS really only developed it for business use, not gaming. I also considered installing XP as a separate OS but it became a matter of finding XP-compatible drivers for the basics, and since Gateway designed this PC for W7, they only have drivers for that OS.

Plus I decided, after a couple major issues in the past, that having a second PC on hand wouldn't be a bad thing and I didn't pay too much for the Dell. I can use the Gateway as a primary PC for internet and newer games, and the Dell as a mainly gaming PC for older stuff as well as internet access if I need it. Virtualbox looks neat and functional, but ultimately it came down to the decision to have 2 separate PCs.

 

[bobafetthotmail]

MS really only developed it for business use, not gaming.

Virtualbox allows full 3d and 2d acceleration for windows guests (once you install their own guest-only drivers they call "guest additions", no need for specific drivers to make it work) on windows 2000 and later (for sure, never tested on older OS). In my legacy XP virtual machine I can run any game the hardware of the host itself can support. I did try only a limited selection of pre-2004 titles though, most of the stuff I own is newer.

Although a VM on a pentium dualcore like your main rig is going to be rather sluggish. Once you are in the Core Duo (dual and quad) realm (and AMD equivalent) things change.

I also concede that if you wanted to run XP it's far less expensive to fetch an oldish office machine with an OEM license than just a XP license for one year (next year will probably be free as they will stop any support).
Heck I'm literally surrounded by similar stuff sold at 80-ish euros here at the shop.

And yes, a secondary machine is always handy for troubleshooting and whatnot.

 

[Diosoth]

My main Gateway has a Core Duo, 2.7GHz and runs Windows 7. The older Dell has the Pentium D 3.0GHz. I should've bene more clear on that- the Dell Optiplex 745 runs Windows XP and has an Intel GMA Q965/Q963 GPU, the Gateway DX4822-01 runs W7 and has an Intel G45/G43 Express GPU.

Though one oddity I had with a game on my Gateway was Shadow Man. I don't know if the game runs funny in Windows 7 or if it's my Graphics chip/drivers but I had some bugs with the physics engine. Any sloped surface would cause me to slide around(the game was made in 1999, it has no stairs, just slopes and hills), and enemies in one of the later levels could not be killed which made it unbeatable. I never could figure out what caused these issues but the game runs fine on the Dell, and ran fine on an old Compaq I had years ago, so either it doesn't work right under W7 or my graphics card can't handle it. As much as I want others to test to see if their W7 PCs have those issues, the PC version has become all but impossible to find outside of piracy with legit copies having dried up. The 3 console ports can be had cheap but the PC version's vanished for some reason.