Will Windows 7, 64-bit HOG RAM?

[Louisaz]

On another forum, I was advised that my proposed new PC build could create a memory issue if I go with Windows 7, Professional, 64-bit version. Specifically, I plan to use the configuration (below) which includes the Intel i5-661 Dual Core processor and the Intel DH55HC MOBO, which will utilize the on-chip, integrated graphics without the need to install a separate graphic card.

I am NOT a gamer and don't use large graphic files.

However, I was warned that (in effect) without a separate graphics card the CPU and OS could use "all of the memory" -- i.e., all of the 4GBs of RAM.

[FWIW, I am currently using a Dell Vostro 200 with integrated Intel (dual core) graphics and I run AutoCAD, Corel Draw, and Sketchup without any problems -- provided that the files are not HUGE. I currently have 2GBs of RAM. My proposed build will have 4GB.]

Does the configuration below (including the proposed OS) create a RAM issue?

CASE: Lian Li "Lancool" PC-K7B, mid-tower ATX;
MOBO: Intel DH55HC, with Intel heat sink and fan;
CPU: Intel Dual Core, Core i5-661 Clarkdale, 3.33 GHz, LGA 1156;
PSU: Corsair 400CX, 400W, ATX;
RAM: Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) 240-pin DDR3, SDRAM;
HDD: WD AV-GP 500GB SATA 3.0 Gb/sec, 3.5"'
DVD: Lite-On, 24X SATA Model iHAS424-98 LithtScribe support;

Thanks,

Louis

 

[zigzag3143]

On another forum, I was advised that my proposed new PC build could create a memory issue if I go with Windows 7, Professional, 64-bit version. Specifically, I plan to use the configuration (below) which includes the Intel i5-661 Dual Core processor and the Intel DH55HC MOBO, which will utilize the on-chip, integrated graphics without the need to install a separate graphic card.

I am NOT a gamer and don't use large graphic files.

However, I was warned that (in effect) without a separate graphics card the CPU and OS could use "all of the memory" -- i.e., all of the 4GBs of RAM.

[FWIW, I am currently using a Dell Vostro 200 with integrated Intel (dual core) graphics and I run AutoCAD, Corel Draw, and Sketchup without any problems -- provided that the files are not HUGE. I currently have 2GBs of RAM. My proposed build will have 4GB.]

Does the configuration below (including the proposed OS) create a RAM issue?

CASE: Lian Li "Lancool" PC-K7B, mid-tower ATX;
MOBO: Intel DH55HC, with Intel heat sink and fan;
CPU: Intel Dual Core, Core i5-661 Clarkdale, 3.33 GHz, LGA 1156;
PSU: Corsair 400CX, 400W, ATX;
RAM: Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) 240-pin DDR3, SDRAM;
HDD: WD AV-GP 500GB SATA 3.0 Gb/sec, 3.5"'
DVD: Lite-On, 24X SATA Model iHAS424-98 LithtScribe support;

Thanks,

Louis

The configuration itself does not create a "ram" issue. You can prevent the integrated gfx chip from using "all of the 4 gigs", but in doing so you may slow down your Autocad, Corel, and to some degree Sketchup.

If you are only going to have a total of 4 gigs ram, and you intend to do CAD, and other Memory intensive apps you might want to consider what your most important issue is.

4 gigs of ram, in a 64bit OS, doing cad, and rendering will slow down, integrated video or not.

We could use more information on the size of the files, how often you will be doing memory intensive apps, etc.

Ken

 

[Bare Foot Kid]

Hello Louisaz, welcome to Seven Forums!




If this is the main-board, why not just spring for more RAM and populate all 4 DIMMs, then all this will be moot and you would have nothing to be concerned over?

 

[whs]

I agree with BFK. Throwing in more RAM is probably the cheapest approach. A decent dedicated graphics card for a non-gamer can be had for $80 to $100 - e.g. a GeForce GT 240.

 

[pparks1]

Of course, using up all of the RAM means you are taking full advantage of what you have. Windows will clear memory as it needs to in order to launch other applications and such. There really is not a good reason if you have 2, 4 or even 8GB of RAM to keep 50% of it free at all times. If you were able to do that...you might as well have purchased 1/2 as much RAM and saved some cash.

 

[DeaconFrost]

You should always be able to set the amount of memory used for video in the BIOS. However, it will use part of your system memory. Given that Windows 7 offloads some visual work to a capable video card, I would put a dedicated one in regardless of your usage. You don't game, so there's no need to spend $100-$500 on one. You could easily pick up something cheaper, in the $40 range that would better the onboard video card.

 

[Louisaz]

Ken, Barefoot Kid, and WHS,

Thanks for input...

I'm thinking that adding another 4GBs of RAM will be the thing to do -- if necessary. The size of the typical AutoCAD (LT) and Sketchup files I may generate will be much smaller than 1 GB. [I know that the CPU memory "overhead" to run these programs is more of a lug.]

If I have 4GBs of on board RAM to begin with, I am guessing that I will not experience an issue with either program -- given the smallish size of the files I'll be generating. FYI, AutoCAD LT is a 2D program (as is Corel Draw) while Sketchup is a 3D program and is more ram intensive when you're maneuvering (regenerating or rendering) a 3D model. I think I will try the build as configured and then opt for more Ram if necessary or a graphics card if another 4GBs of RAM doesn't do the trick. I will use my AutoCAD and Sketchup very rarely.

Again, my current Dell, with 2GBs of RAM, a slower dual core Intel processor, and integrated graphics doesn't complain -- with smaller CAD and Sketchup files. I will have to run my existing CAD and graphics in the 32-bit mode (virtual XP machine) -- which is why I will use the Windows 7 professional -- or I must upgrade the to the 64-bit versions of the programs. IF I run them in the 32-bit mode, I cannot see how I'd have an issue. If I upgrade the programs and use large files, I'll likely have to graduate to a fast, independent graphics card and 4 more GBs of RAM.

Any thoughts?

Louis

 

[whs]

If you want to keep the graphics card option open, you might want to opt for a 500 Watt PSU rather than 400 Watts. Just to be on the safe side.

 

[Louisaz]

Of course, using up all of the RAM means you are taking full advantage of what you have. Windows will clear memory as it needs to in order to launch other applications and such. There really is not a good reason if you have 2, 4 or even 8GB of RAM to keep 50% of it free at all times. If you were able to do that...you might as well have purchased 1/2 as much RAM and saved some cash.

I like your logic! So why don't I simply add another 4GBs of RAM and call it a day.

I'm a 67-year old retired Architect. Occasionally, I'll play with AutoCAD and Sketchup, but as I am no longer practicing, the files I will generate will be smallish.

I'm guessing that with the advent programs written for 64-bit architecture, they will become more graphic and RAM intensive. That's fine. IF I am using a 64-bit OS (Windows 7 Professional) and my PC will run 64-bit programs I can always replace my 8GBs of RAM with 16GBs sometime in the future.

I agree that RAM is increasingly the name of the game.

Thanks,

Louis

 

[Louisaz]

If you want to keep the graphics card option open, you might want to opt for a 500 Watt PSU rather than 400 Watts. Just to be on the safe side.

I used a program and checked the combined wattage for the proposed build and it is under 250 watts. I assume there is a surge during a cold boot, but what should the factor of safety be?

Louis

 

[pparks1]

I like your logic! So why don't I simply add another 4GBs of RAM and call it a day.

Sure...you just may find that you don't use anywhere near all of it. I have 2 boxes with 8GB of RAM each...and unless I am running 3+ Virtual Machines concurrently I never come close to maxing out the machine.

Most people seem huge increases from 1 to 2GB. A small increase from 2 to 4GB and almost nothing going from 4GB to 8GB.

 

[whs]

The less strain you have on the PSU, the better. If you go by the old bridge builders rule, the safety factor is 3x the required.

PS: what pparks says makes a lot of sense.

 

[karlsnooks]

Louisaz,

No. 64-bit is not a memory hog.

My suggestion: Use your 64-bit system. If YOU are pleased with the performance, then do nothing.

Everyone's needs are slightly or greatly different. Many are quite happy with the performance they get with 4GB.

 

[logicearth]

Again, my current Dell, with 2GBs of RAM, a slower dual core Intel processor, and integrated graphics doesn't complain -- with smaller CAD and Sketchup files. I will have to run my existing CAD and graphics in the 32-bit mode (virtual XP machine) -- which is why I will use the Windows 7 professional -- or I must upgrade the to the 64-bit versions of the programs. IF I run them in the 32-bit mode, I cannot see how I'd have an issue. If I upgrade the programs and use large files, I'll likely have to graduate to a fast, independent graphics card and 4 more GBs of RAM.

Are you sure you have to run AutoCAD in a virtual machine? Windows 64-bit can run 32-bit programs just fine. But if you use a virtual machine you can kiss any type of performance good bye.

 

[Wishmaster]

I like your logic! So why don't I simply add another 4GBs of RAM and call it a day.

Sure...you just may find that you don't use anywhere near all of it. I have 2 boxes with 8GB of RAM each...and unless I am running 3+ Virtual Machines concurrently I never come close to maxing out the machine.

Most people seem huge increases from 1 to 2GB. A small increase from 2 to 4GB and almost nothing going from 4GB to 8GB.

This has been my experience as well.

However, I do find that w/the 8GB it seems to use slightly more RAM overall for in-use status, and usually fills standby RAM as well, with 0 free.
Which IMO is a good thing.

Things seem slightly more responsive to me as well, (especially ALT=Tabbing etc)
Likely just the fact more RAM available and its using more of it though.

But it never really comes close to using it all as in-use. Only as standby.

 

[Louisaz]

If you want to keep the graphics card option open, you might want to opt for a 500 Watt PSU rather than 400 Watts. Just to be on the safe side.

Probably not a bad idea. Thanks.

Louis

 

[PhreePhly]

The less strain you have on the PSU, the better. If you go by the old bridge builders rule, the safety factor is 3x the required.

PS: what pparks says makes a lot of sense.

Note that with PSU's that's not necessarily true. PSU's become less efficient at lower and higher power draws than their rating. Most quality PSU's have about an 80% efficiency at their base rating, and that efficiency drops when pulling more or less than that load. A good rule of thumb is to size your system to draw about 60% of your PSU's continuous power rating.

 

[whs]

The less strain you have on the PSU, the better. If you go by the old bridge builders rule, the safety factor is 3x the required.

PS: what pparks says makes a lot of sense.

Note that with PSU's that's not necessarily true. PSU's become less efficient at lower and higher power draws than their rating. Most quality PSU's have about an 80% efficiency at their base rating, and that efficiency drops when pulling more or less than that load. A good rule of thumb is to size your system to draw about 60% of your PSU's continuous power rating.

Of course you don't need 3 times - I was just joking. Your 60% rule seems reasonable but I was not aware of it. I just wing it and then a bit more beef is safer.

 

[PhreePhly]

The less strain you have on the PSU, the better. If you go by the old bridge builders rule, the safety factor is 3x the required.

PS: what pparks says makes a lot of sense.

Note that with PSU's that's not necessarily true. PSU's become less efficient at lower and higher power draws than their rating. Most quality PSU's have about an 80% efficiency at their base rating, and that efficiency drops when pulling more or less than that load. A good rule of thumb is to size your system to draw about 60% of your PSU's continuous power rating.

Of course you don't need 3 times - I was just joking. Your 60% rule seems reasonable but I was not aware of it. I just wing it and then a bit more beef is safer.

Sorry, wasn't trying to step on any toes. PSU's are probably one of the least understood of the components needed for a home-built PC. I've seem guys go out and buy these 1 kW monsters to run systems that draw 250 - 300 Watts. I try to explain to them that they will be wasting power and generating more heat inside their systems.

 

[PhreePhly]

To the OP,

You can do what you are planning to do easily with 4 GB RAM, however, given the price of RAM compared to your entire build, and the fact that Win 7 Professional can easily see and use it, why not just go for 8 GB. That extra RAM will give you room to grow and will keep you fairly current for the next few years.