Windows 7 and Internet Use

[dblack]

Is there anyone else using Windows 7 for internet use on a daily basis and if so, have you ever had an actual experience that made you stop using it.

 

[michael diemer]

While I don't use it literally every day, I have no qualms whatsoever about using it whenever I want. However...it has been said many times that the biggest factor by far in internet security is the user. Safe browsing habits are 90% of online security.

Use Microsoft Security Essentials, and update it every day. Run a scan at the end of every day. MSE works on Windows 7, at least for now. And it uses the same definitions as Defender on Windows 10 and 11.

Having said all that: it is still possible to be infected. It is possible on any and every operating system. The only problem I have ever had was with a BSD system. Someone hacked my system, I actually saw them, typing in a terminal right before my eyes. All we can do is use safe browsing happens, run a good AV, and hope for the best. If you do these things, it is unlikely - but not impossible - that you will have any problems.

Still, why take chances? My solution is to use Windows 7 for the one thing I need it for, music composition. for everyday browsing, I use Linux. It is a perfect arrangement. Not hard to do. You can dual boot, or, better yet, use separate computers. Virtually no chance of any problems this way.

 

[dblack]

Thanks for replying Michael,
I have no other option really but to use Windows 7. It's on both my HP desktops, one Home Premium and the other Windows Ultimate. I also have a laptop, a Dell Latitude E7470 with Windows 7 Pro. The desktops are used regularly for internet banking and other financial uses. Up until very recently they were all covered with a three PC subscription to Kaspersky AV. Recent world events and warnings both here in the UK and America convinced me to stop using it and I have removed it from all my PC's. I still had about 3 months left on the subscription. For the moment I have just installed AVG Free on them all until deciding what to do.
The precautions I take are that I do not use the Cloud, all personal files are saved on PHD's and used from there. Most importantly I have complete system images created from different stages on PHD's as well and can wipe my PC's, including Windows, then get back to almost where I was.

 

[SIW2]

Have you an aversion to mse

 

[michael diemer]

I don't know what a PHD is, other than an academic title. I must admit that doing banking on Windows 7 would make me very nervous. You would be better off switching to Linux. It is not nearly as hard as its reputation. There are several Linux systems (or distros) that are user friendly enough that they have a very easy learning curve. Anyone can start using Mint, Zorin or Elementary immediately. Many other as well. And all free.

I'm assuming these are personal machines, and not business. If the latter, even more reason not to use Windows 7. If you are hesitant because you use Word or Excel, you can still use them, through the Wine program, which allows you to install some Windows apps. I have in our household Microsoft Office working on Linux. Also, there are Linux equivalents which most find perfectly usable.

As I said, internet banking is the one activity I would not do, or let anyone in my household do, on Windows 7. I would either start using Linux or bite the bullet and upgrade to 10/11.

 

[dblack]

Thanks for your reply SIW2,
As regards mse I would not use it. I previously upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10 on my older HP desktop and used it for about 6 months. I never actually liked W10 but the built in telemetry was always a problem for me. Even worse was all the forced updates that seemed to go on forever. Although I was well past the time to revert back to W7 I managed to do it by setting the HP desktop back to factory settings on the protected partition of the hard drive. The whole experience sickened me with Micro Soft to the extent that if there is alternative software to MS then that is what i use.

- - - Updated - - -

Michael,
The PHD's that I was referring to are Portable Hard Drives. I never store banking, personal or things like passwords on the actual computer and do not trust Passport Managers either. I also use Firefox with Startpage (The world's most private search engine combination) and Mozilla Thunderbird for emails.
My PC's are private, in fact I'm well into retirement now. That's why I am reluctant to learn Linux but will keep an open mind. It is doubtfull however if it could be used for banking and financial transactions.
Again I would not use MS Office and use alternative programs for all my interests which include word processing, spreadsheets, music editing, desktop publishing and CAD.
I note your comments about banking but you have not explained why, I started the thread hoping to find out if anyone has had an actual experience or explain why W7 is not safe for Internet use.

 

[michael diemer]

Ah, "Portable," of course. I was thinking, maybe "Peripheral?" I had never seen them abbreviated like that. But it's good that you are doing it that way, that does provide some protection.

Many of us here share your dislike of Windows 10. but there is nothing wrong with MSE. It's a very good AV, but nothing wrong with going with something else either. The problem is there isn't much else at this point. At some point it will become pointless to use W-7 as anything but an offline system to run special software. Like where Vista is now. Almost nobody running that anymore.

I started with Linux about 11 years ago, when I retired. I think learning new things as we age is a good idea. I found it very interesting, a whole new world to explore. I soon learned that you can do almost anything on it that you would do on Windows. There are exceptions. Although I got my music creation going on Linux, it took tremendous effort and time, and still I had crashes, and had to be online for one of my orchestral libraries to authorize. That was the thing that drove me back to Windows 7. I did try 10, but like you the update vortex and other noxious stuff was too much. Now I have the best of both worlds.

Give Linux a try. You have time now that you are retired. What's to lose? As for bad stuff, I tried to address that by saying that hacks and infections can happen on any system, and that behavior is your best protection. But the more sensitive the content, the less chances you should take. Just makes sense.

 

[dblack]

Michael,
Bit of a delay in replying but it was about midnight when I read your last post and now it is the following evening. The biggest threat would be the financial and banking aspect but it will not stop me continuing to use them with my Windows 7 PC's, after all I have been doing so for years without any problems. These various sites that I have to log into are very secure, not only requiring passwords and codes which are not held on my PC, then there is secondary security sent to your mobile phone which you have to enter before you can log in. I do not think with that level of security it would make any difference whatsoever whether using Windows 7 or 11. My bank that I use via an online account also has the same level of security and the telephone banking facility that I set up via my W7 PC is protected by voice recognition. Again no difference between using W7 or W11 that I can see.
I think W7 might have a much longer life yet than you suggest, Microsoft is doing it's best to discourage that view by spreading scaremongering propaganda everywhere you look, including forums like this. It has it's advocates pushing people to update to W10 and W11 as the only way forward. This forum should be about supporting W7 not encouraging people to abandon it.

 

[ColourOz]

I do agree with dblack's opinion. Microsoft is pushing us to abandon all previous operating systems and head for Windows 11 which will also be subsided when a new version appears. I have been using Windows 7 since the beginning and is the only OS that has continued to operate without problems. I am able to manipulate programs/templates on Win7, not hide them as you will do in Win10 & 11. I loathe adverts and prying eyes which you will receive a lot of in 10 and 11.

Ten years ago I abandoned AVG and decided to move to NordVPN to protect my computers. I use Win7 for banking and have no problems as the sites also tend to protect you when entering. Having the appropriate software installed on your computer is a must. It is propaganda that is forcing one to change to Win11. If you are happy with Win7 as it is, why change? Since leaving AVG, I have had no issues with my computer.

Just another point - if you are happy with the way you have set up your computer, you can back it up by using a program TerabyteUnlimited. You can back it up to a DVD or another partition on a hard drive. Restoring the complete backup takes about 10-15 minutes. (This is just an opinion, not a sale).

All the best, don't get 'hooked'!

 

[torchwood]

Im using Bitdefender(free) on mine, however the paid version includes the VPN option

 

[michael diemer]

Michael,
Bit of a delay in replying but it was about midnight when I read your last post and now it is the following evening. The biggest threat would be the financial and banking aspect but it will not stop me continuing to use them with my Windows 7 PC's, after all I have been doing so for years without any problems. These various sites that I have to log into are very secure, not only requiring passwords and codes which are not held on my PC, then there is secondary security sent to your mobile phone which you have to enter before you can log in. I do not think with that level of security it would make any difference whatsoever whether using Windows 7 or 11. My bank that I use via an online account also has the same level of security and the telephone banking facility that I set up via my W7 PC is protected by voice recognition. Again no difference between using W7 or W11 that I can see.
I think W7 might have a much longer life yet than you suggest, Microsoft is doing it's best to discourage that view by spreading scaremongering propaganda everywhere you look, including forums like this. It has it's advocates pushing people to update to W10 and W11 as the only way forward. This forum should be about supporting W7 not encouraging people to abandon it.

You make a convincing case, dback. Part of me wants to agree with you, as it would be simpler to just use Windows 7 and not supplement with Linux. In fact, I suspect what you say is true. I want it to be true. This may be one of those things where one's personality structure comes into play. how much risk one can live with. How paranoid you are, in other words. I tend toward the more paranoid end of the spectrum. I just don't trust people. Also, my technical knowledge isn't great enough to give me the confidence you have. and since most users don't even have my level of expertise, I don't want encourage them to do something that could get them into trouble,

I would say that for those of us who have have sufficient technical skills, who really know how take care of themselves, so to speak, those folks can use Windows 7 safely in all situations. for the rest of us, perhaps caution is the better approach. In the end we all have to decide what level of risk we are comfortable with, and that will vary according to our skill level and personality.

I do agree that MS pushes people to upgrade when it is not really necessary or desirable. I deplore that as do many of us here. I suspect also that AV may itself be largely hype, or even a hoax. Still, for me, the paranoia wins out. I use W7 and always will, and it is my favorite OS, and in my opinion the best ever created.

 

[dblack]

Michael,
Looking at your quote "my technical knowledge isn't great enough to give me the confidence you have"
It is not technical knowledge that is giving me confidence to continue with Win-7, far from it, I rely on the people that do have that knowledge and pass it on so that others can make judgements on it.
I have done a fair bit of research over the past year or so on the methods Microsoft have been using to achieve their aims, even listening to one of their long term employees describing what they were now doing and he came to the conclusion that he could no longer be part of it and left the company. That is why I do not use Microsoft software if there is any alternative.

With regard to your other quote "I suspect also that AV may itself be largely hype, or even a hoax"

No that is not the case on the Internet. I sometimes would watch live streams of sporting events on a risky Internet site. So much so that I would only use my laptop. I did it because I was desperate to see the live game and knew I had Kaspersky AV installed. Sure enough, clicking on any false link to see the event put Kaspersky into overdrive. It was blocking numerous Virus downloads to my laptop until it blocked them all. Of course I have now uninstalled Kaspersky for the reasons given and now trying to find the best of the rest.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for your post ColourOz,
The NordVPN that you are using to protect your computers, is it the normal download on it's own or have you upgraded the protection level in some way?

I was going to ask you why you abandoned AVG Anti Virus but then noticed that it was ten years ago so it might not be relevant now. Was it the Free version or paid? I have installed the Free version on my PC's for now until I make up my mind what AV to use permanently.

 

[ColourOz]

Hi dblack,

Have a look at the site nordvpn.com. It is integrated into the OS and you can use it on 6 different computers. It is a paid program which is (the cheapest) for 2 years and quite reasonable. There is an extension that you can also install on your browser and a 'kill switch' if something goes wrong. That is an option, not an extra cost. Because it is in Panoma, their political rules are different to ours and they do not keep log information and therefore cannot hand it over to any government official. There are other VPN companies, but depending where they are located, regardless of their VPN rules, still have to give out log information. I personally have nothing to hide, but like the idea of privacy.

As regards AVG - I was happy with them and was able to chat with them when there was an issue. I was with them for 5-6 years with a paid subscription and contacted them by phone if needed. On the last occasion, the phone was answered by a Hindu person whom I could not understand and asked for another person to speak to. Another Hindu person answered the phone and I could not understand that person either. I am not against the Hindu, just could not understand the accent. I found out later that the company had moved and sold to someone else but still kept the name AVG. I realised it was time to move on.

I have been using Microsoft Defender for the past couple of years and have (a few days ago) installed Security Essentials through a Microsoft update. However, being cautious, I first investigated Security Essentials vs Defender and thought it a good idea to 'dump' Defender and install Security Essentials as it has a lot more protection than Defender which is only spyware. I have also managed to remove Defender off the Control Panel. Since dumping the anti-virus program(s) I have had no problem with my computers which I also use for banking. If you decide on Security Essentials, you do not need any other virus program as it is all part of Microsoft; no extra charge.

Wishing you well!

 

[michael diemer]

MSE is both anti-malware and anti-virus. It is a complete AV program, and it uses the same definitions as Windows Defender on W10/11. So it is good choice for those of us still using W7. however, nobody knows how long it will continue working on W7, or receive the same updates as WD.

The version of Defender on W7 is not a true antivirus, it only stops malware. Confusing, as it has the same name as WD on W10/11.

 

[dblack]

ColourOz,
Thanks for the lots of info in your post.
NordVPN does appear to be the most popular but from what I've gathered be careful at renewal time, for I believe the cost will increase dramatically.

Regarding the AVG, yes they were acquired by Avast a while back and now very similar as they share the same underlying engine. In the many comparisons I have made recently for Free AV they are consistently found up near the top. Both of them have been in the AV business for some 30 years and have hundreds of millions of users around the world using their Free AV protection. That is why I am in no great hurry to install something else.

 

[SAVVYSCLUTTER]

Yes. I use Firefox and when support ends, I'll use r3dfox.

 

[dblack]

SAVVYSCLUTTER,
That's interesting, I had not heard of it before. Shows the benefit of things like Firefox being open source allowing computer geeks and enthusiasts to update security and keep adding improvements based on what the users wish to have. I must mention again the importance to me of having the Startpage Browser installed into Firefox. I love the plain format of the page without any tiles or clutter preinstalled on it. I then add only the things I wish to have into the top menu and bookmark toolbars.

Of course the extra security and privacy is the main advantage. With other browsers, Google is tracking every site you visit, recording all your interests then selling on your personal data. It is prevented from doing that with Firefox/Startpage as they insert some sort of barrier switch which prevents Google tracing your searches directly back to your PC.

I see there is some sort of forum for the r3dfox so will have a look later.

 

[dg1261]

That's interesting, I had not heard of it before. Shows the benefit of things like Firefox being open source allowing computer geeks and enthusiasts to update security and keep adding improvements based on what the users wish to have.

FTR, Chromium is also open source, so there are numerous forks of both Chrome and Firefox. In both cases, developers can (and usually do) choose to leave out the privacy invasive stuff.

De-googled forks of the Chromium base include Brave, Iron, Opera, Supermium, Thorium, Ungoogled-Chromium, and a few others. Brave, in particular, is known for its strong privacy features. Google Chrome itself dropped support for Windows 7 after Chrome 109, so many of the forks did as well. However, Supermium and Thorium have maintained Win7 support by taking the current Chromium base code and back-porting it to Win7 or earlier.

Forks of the Firefox base include LibreWolf, Pale Moon, r3dfox, and Waterfox. However, when Firefox dropped Win7 support after v. 116, most of these did, as well. Notable, r3dfox bucks the trend, and like Supermium and Thorium in the Chromium camp, it takes the current Win10/11 Firefox base and back-ports it to Win7.

For this reason, the only browsers I would recommend for Win7 use are r3dfox, Supermium, or Thorium. They should provide all the same security benefits for Win7 users as more recent versions of Firefox or Chrome, even though Firefox and Chrome have abandoned Win7 users.

While we're at it, let me mention all three are also available in portable versions. I only use portable versions because everything is self-contained in one folder, not splattered about your system in "Program Files", "Appdata", "Userdata", "System32", and numerous registry entries. Everything in one folder makes it super easy to backup, move, or update your browser and its configuration. Portable versions also make it easy to use multiple browsers and multiple versions, if desired.

 

[Alejandro85]

and decided to move to NordVPN to protect my computers.

VPNs don't protect your computers at all.
They actually act as proxies to websites, possibly from a different location from your real one. Their main usefulness is to bypass censorship and those pesky "geo-locked" things (think per-country Netflix series). But about security, the don't help in this day and age. In fact, it's not difficult to think that they are detrimental to security and privacy..

 

[siliconbeaver]

VPN users here all I have known are Netflix users.