Windows 7 defrag vs Diskeeper

Terrym

New member
I have been a user of diskeeper for some time, on XP and on Windows 7 since I installed build 7100 RC. Just found out today that win 7 has a built in defrag that is running also.
Does it make sense to run both? Any one experience a reason that one is better than the other?
 

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System Built by me
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Winows 7 Pro, 64 bit
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Intel i7 920
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ASUS P6T
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12 GB
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Nividia GeForce 9800 GT
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HP vf 17
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1- 300 GB Western Digital raptor 10,000 rpm
2- 640 GB WD
1- 500 GB WD
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12 MB Cable
It's funny you bring this up today because I was just taking a closer look at my Diskeeper 2009. I've had it since XP, and now running it 64bit in Windows 7 and I have to say I don't think I am going to continue using it.

I have it set to Auto so it defrags in the background, one of their claims to fame is how it only works when the system is idle, and uses such negligible resources to run, and I will give it that as it accomplishes this part well, but I don't think it has ever done a good job keeping the drives defragmented 'automatically'.

The point of 'auto' is to set and forget it, but occasionally when I do a manual 'analyze' it tells me the drive is defragmented and performance is 'degraded'

So I ask myself whats the point? I'm sure that windows defrag can do just as good a job or better when defragging manually.

edit: I just noticed in your post you state that the built in defrag runs automatically as well. I did not know this and am curious if this is true. If it were than I have serious issues knowing that 2 programs running in conjunction cannot keep my drives defragmented! :p
 

My Computer

OS
Win 7 Ultimate x64
CPU
Intel i7 950 OC'd @ 4.0Ghz (SpeedStep ON)
Motherboard
ASUS P6X58D-E BIOS 0303
Memory
3x2GB Patriot Extreme Viper II Sector 7 DDR3 @ 1600mhz
Graphics Card(s)
ATI MSI 5870 900mhz/1300mhz
Sound Card
Onboard Realtek ALC889
Monitor(s) Displays
2 X 24" BenQ G2412HD
Screen Resolution
1920x1080p
Hard Drives
Intel X25-M 80 GB (SSD)
W.D. Caviar Black 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 80GB (SATA)
PSU
Corsair AX850
Case
Antec 1200
Cooling
Lots and Lots of Air!
Keyboard
Razer Lycosa
Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder
Internet Speed
25Mbps/1Mbps
May not be true in Win7, but in XP, Windows Defrag is Diskeeper Lite (basically).

The basic advantage to third-party defrag apps is the ability to resize the MFT easily and defrag page files, and to run at boot-time when there are no locked files. MFT files can be resized in the registry. If you have a dynamic, Windows managed page file, there is no fragmentation except under an extreme condition - and a defragger won't help you there.

Defraggers carved a market niche when there was a more valid need for them.

Shooters, you may commence firing.
 
Ready on the left...

If Microsoft would adopt a modern FS, defragmenting would be a thing of the past. I had hopes with WINfs, but no joy... Linux really has the best FS with the ext file system... ext4 is flaming fast...
 

My Computer

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PC/Desktop
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LENOVO K450 @3.0GHZ
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64-bit Windows 8.1 Pro
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Core(TM) i5 CPU 4330 Haswell @ 3.20GHz
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LENOVO
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12.00 GB
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Intel(R) HD Graphics
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Intel HD integtrated
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HP 25' ISP Monitor
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1900/1020
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(1) ST1000DM003-1CH162 (2) Generic STORAGE DEVICE USB Device (3) Generic STORAGE DEVICE USB Device
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100mb down/10mb up

My Computer

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Samsung NP530U4B-S02IN
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Windows® 8 Pro (64-bit)
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Intel® Core™ i5 Processor 2467M (1.60GHz, 3MB L3 Cache)
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Samsung Electronics
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6GB DDR3 System Memory at 1,333MHz (on BD 4GB + 2GB x 1)
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AMD Radeon™ HD7550M 1GB DDR3 (Ext. Graphic)
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Realtek High Definition Audio
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35.56cm (14.0) SuperBright 300nit HD LED Display
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1366x768
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1TB S-ATA II Hard Drive (5400RPM) with ExpressCache 16GB SSD
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sucks
Antivirus
Microsoft Security Essentials
Browser
Google Chrome (Sync enabled)
Anyone have any good experiences with something that is 'Automatic'
 

My Computer

OS
Win 7 Ultimate x64
CPU
Intel i7 950 OC'd @ 4.0Ghz (SpeedStep ON)
Motherboard
ASUS P6X58D-E BIOS 0303
Memory
3x2GB Patriot Extreme Viper II Sector 7 DDR3 @ 1600mhz
Graphics Card(s)
ATI MSI 5870 900mhz/1300mhz
Sound Card
Onboard Realtek ALC889
Monitor(s) Displays
2 X 24" BenQ G2412HD
Screen Resolution
1920x1080p
Hard Drives
Intel X25-M 80 GB (SSD)
W.D. Caviar Black 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 80GB (SATA)
PSU
Corsair AX850
Case
Antec 1200
Cooling
Lots and Lots of Air!
Keyboard
Razer Lycosa
Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder
Internet Speed
25Mbps/1Mbps

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Custom Build
OS
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional X64
CPU
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 965 @ 3.20GHz
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Intel DX58SO
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Kingston 3x2 GB (DDR3 1600 MHzς)
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NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT [x2 (SLI Technology)]
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RealteK High Definition Audio (On Board)
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SyncMaster 245BW (Digital)
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1920X1200 Pixels
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ST3500410AS ATA Device (465.76GB)
ST3500410AS ATA Device (465.76GB)
WDC WD5000AACS-00G8B1 ATA Device (465.76GB)
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PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad 750W PSU
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Antec Sonata Elite
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Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU Retail
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Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 3000 Ergonomics Keyboard
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Ergonomics Keyboard and Optical Mouse Combo
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54.0 Mbps
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Linksys WUSB600N Dual-Band Wireless-N USB Network Adapter
Interesting,

I have removed Diskeeper 2009 and I just purchased and installed o&o defrag 12. Windows Defrag tells me my OS partition is 4% defragmented while 0&0 immediately after told me it's over 8%. :sarc:

Alright who's lying...
 

My Computer

OS
Win 7 Ultimate x64
CPU
Intel i7 950 OC'd @ 4.0Ghz (SpeedStep ON)
Motherboard
ASUS P6X58D-E BIOS 0303
Memory
3x2GB Patriot Extreme Viper II Sector 7 DDR3 @ 1600mhz
Graphics Card(s)
ATI MSI 5870 900mhz/1300mhz
Sound Card
Onboard Realtek ALC889
Monitor(s) Displays
2 X 24" BenQ G2412HD
Screen Resolution
1920x1080p
Hard Drives
Intel X25-M 80 GB (SSD)
W.D. Caviar Black 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 80GB (SATA)
PSU
Corsair AX850
Case
Antec 1200
Cooling
Lots and Lots of Air!
Keyboard
Razer Lycosa
Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder
Internet Speed
25Mbps/1Mbps
Interesting,

I have removed Diskeeper 2009 and I just purchased and installed o&o defrag 12. Windows Defrag tells me my OS partition is 4% defragmented while 0&0 immediately after told me it's over 8%. :sarc:

Alright who's lying...
Who's selling?

Neither is lying, per se. You are not privy to the calculation.
 
"I hwas onlee keeding wit u Frank"!

 

My Computer

OS
Win 7 Ultimate x64
CPU
Intel i7 950 OC'd @ 4.0Ghz (SpeedStep ON)
Motherboard
ASUS P6X58D-E BIOS 0303
Memory
3x2GB Patriot Extreme Viper II Sector 7 DDR3 @ 1600mhz
Graphics Card(s)
ATI MSI 5870 900mhz/1300mhz
Sound Card
Onboard Realtek ALC889
Monitor(s) Displays
2 X 24" BenQ G2412HD
Screen Resolution
1920x1080p
Hard Drives
Intel X25-M 80 GB (SSD)
W.D. Caviar Black 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 80GB (SATA)
PSU
Corsair AX850
Case
Antec 1200
Cooling
Lots and Lots of Air!
Keyboard
Razer Lycosa
Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder
Internet Speed
25Mbps/1Mbps

My Computer

Computer type
PC/Desktop
Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Elsa
OS
windows 8.1 Pro x64
CPU
intel [email protected]
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msi mpower max ac
Memory
2x8gb ripjaws x @2133
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asus r9-290@1100/1300
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creative sbz
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dell u3011
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840 evo 250 & 8.5tb
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evga supernova p2-1000
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corsair air 540
Cooling
corsair h100
Keyboard
logitech g710+
Mouse
logitech g502
Internet Speed
50/10
Antivirus
avg
Browser
firefox
Additionally, because I triple boot, there are some boot files that I must specify to be 'excluded' from defragging otherwise it deactivates my bootloader (Acronis OS Selector) when they get moved so using windows defrag is not an option for me since it doesn't allow for exclusions.
 

My Computer

OS
Win 7 Ultimate x64
CPU
Intel i7 950 OC'd @ 4.0Ghz (SpeedStep ON)
Motherboard
ASUS P6X58D-E BIOS 0303
Memory
3x2GB Patriot Extreme Viper II Sector 7 DDR3 @ 1600mhz
Graphics Card(s)
ATI MSI 5870 900mhz/1300mhz
Sound Card
Onboard Realtek ALC889
Monitor(s) Displays
2 X 24" BenQ G2412HD
Screen Resolution
1920x1080p
Hard Drives
Intel X25-M 80 GB (SSD)
W.D. Caviar Black 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 80GB (SATA)
PSU
Corsair AX850
Case
Antec 1200
Cooling
Lots and Lots of Air!
Keyboard
Razer Lycosa
Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder
Internet Speed
25Mbps/1Mbps
Just for laughs...

Many of the non-default defraggers can slow the system down by destroying prefetch optimisation.

As Antman said, the actual definition of "fragmented" is in the eye of the beholder. It's possible to choose any arbitrary definition for what constitutes the best possible layout. You could have small files first, then medium, then large, or perhaps all EXEs, then all DLLs, then all TXT... clearly some schemes will be better in certain ways but worse in others.

What the OS "prefetch" mechanism does is to watch what's happening during the boot phase and during the first 10 seconds of an app's startup. It records information along these lines:

- While starting Notepad, we first read all of Notepad.exe.
- Then we accessed the second half of NTDLL.dll.
- Then we read from 25% to 50% of Comctl32.dll.
- Then we finished by reading from 65% to 75% of Advapi32.dll.

(Obviously, just an example.) Later, the in-built defragger comes along and examines that recorded prefetch info. It may conclude that a lot of apps currently on the system do similar things with those particular files, so that it makes sense to reorganise their storage on-disk to make those fragments contiguous. The disk head(s) can then read them in one swoop without having to incur the penalty of extra seek time and rotational delay to move between the various fragments.

To an outsider, that disk layout may look completely insane and highly fragmented - "why the HECK would you have a quarter of Comctl32.dll sandwiched between a half of NTDLL.dll and a tenth of Advapi32.dll?!?" If that outsider is a disk defragmenter which doesn't understand prefetch, and many of them don't, it may be tempted to rearrange the file chunks so they all look "pretty" again, whatever its definition may be.

You end up with a dialog box that says "fragmentation: 0%" and a system which performs slightly more slowly :)
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Multiple machines in various stages of decomposition.
OS
Win7x64
This is really nice IMO. It always worked perfect for me, but a HOG on my single core laptop. PerfectSpeed PC Optimizer
Damn just noticed its the same as what Zahl posted lol
 

My Computer

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Custom
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Windows 7 7600RTM X64
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AMD Phenom(tm) 9600 Quad-Core Processor
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ASUS M4A78 PRO
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4GB 1066 DDR2 OCZ Gold Edition
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NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT
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On board
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42" RCA LCD TV
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1920x1080
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500GB 7200 RPM SATA
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400W
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Crappy
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Fans
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Logitech Wireless Keyboard W/Integrated Touchpad
Internet Speed
10Mbps DL
I wouldnt have two defraggers running. They could be conflicting each other in terms of prioritising where files are placed. Disable the scheduler on windows defrag and use diskeeper.

PerfectDisk 10 is better though :p
 

My Computer

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self built
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Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
CPU
Intel E8400 3GHz
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Intel DX48BT2
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Kingston PC3-10700H 4Gb
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XFX Radeon HD 5850 BlackEd.
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Asus Xonar DG
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2x Samsung SM-T220HD 22"
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1680x1050 on two monitors
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OCZ Vertex 2 120gb 3.5" (OS)
Seagate Momentus XT 500gb
Samsung F3 1Tb (games)
2x Samsung F1 1Tb
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Thermaltake ToughPower 850w
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Thermaltake Armor
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Scythe Mugen II
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Microsoft Comfort Curve USB
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Razer Diamondback 3G
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8128/443
Ready on the left...

If Microsoft would adopt a modern FS, defragmenting would be a thing of the past. I had hopes with WINfs, but no joy... Linux really has the best FS with the ext file system... ext4 is flaming fast...

Sorry to break this to you, but there is no such thing as a non-fragmenting file system. There are ways to mitigate fragmentation (NTFS supports several of these), but those only work on small files. There is also a limitation of actual space on the HDD. Fragmentation is not something that is curable due to the way bits are stored on the HDD they will eventually fragment when files are added, deleted, changed, etc.

The EXT* file system fragments just as NTFS does.
 

My Computer

Computer type
PC/Desktop
Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Alienware Aurora ALX R4
OS
Windows 10 Pro (x64)
CPU
Intel Core i7-3930K (3.2GHz - 4.5GHz)
Motherboard
Alienware Aurora-R4 x79
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4x Samsung 4GB PC3-12800 DDR3 (16GB 1600MHz)
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Nvidia Geforce GTX 690
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SteelSeries Siberia Elite
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Dell UltraSharp U3011
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2560x1600
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Samsung 850 Pro 256 GB, Seagate 1TB Desktop Hybrid HDD, 2x Western Digital 4TB Green HDD
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875W Some Dell PSU <.<
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Alienware Aurora ALX
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Custom Liquid Cooling (EK CPU & GPU blocks) dual EK 480RAD
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Logitech G710+ Mechanical
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Logitech G700s
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Verizon Fios (50 mbps average)
Other Info
Server: Intel NUC D54250WYK: i5-4250U, 16GB, 256 GB mSATA, Windows Server 2012 R2
It's funny you bring this up today because I was just taking a closer look at my Diskeeper 2009. I've had it since XP, and now running it 64bit in Windows 7 and I have to say I don't think I am going to continue using it.

I have it set to Auto so it defrags in the background, one of their claims to fame is how it only works when the system is idle, and uses such negligible resources to run, and I will give it that as it accomplishes this part well, but I don't think it has ever done a good job keeping the drives defragmented 'automatically'.

The point of 'auto' is to set and forget it, but occasionally when I do a manual 'analyze' it tells me the drive is defragmented and performance is 'degraded'

So I ask myself whats the point? I'm sure that windows defrag can do just as good a job or better when defragging manually.

edit: I just noticed in your post you state that the built in defrag runs automatically as well. I did not know this and am curious if this is true. If it were than I have serious issues knowing that 2 programs running in conjunction cannot keep my drives defragmented! :p

Go to start, enter "defrag" in search and select "defragment your hard drive" and you will see it has probably been running auto since you installed Win 7.
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
System Built by me
OS
Winows 7 Pro, 64 bit
CPU
Intel i7 920
Motherboard
ASUS P6T
Memory
12 GB
Graphics Card(s)
Nividia GeForce 9800 GT
Sound Card
Mother board
Monitor(s) Displays
HP vf 17
Hard Drives
1- 300 GB Western Digital raptor 10,000 rpm
2- 640 GB WD
1- 500 GB WD
Internet Speed
12 MB Cable
It's funny you bring this up today because I was just taking a closer look at my Diskeeper 2009. I've had it since XP, and now running it 64bit in Windows 7 and I have to say I don't think I am going to continue using it.

I have it set to Auto so it defrags in the background, one of their claims to fame is how it only works when the system is idle, and uses such negligible resources to run, and I will give it that as it accomplishes this part well, but I don't think it has ever done a good job keeping the drives defragmented 'automatically'.

The point of 'auto' is to set and forget it, but occasionally when I do a manual 'analyze' it tells me the drive is defragmented and performance is 'degraded'

So I ask myself whats the point? I'm sure that windows defrag can do just as good a job or better when defragging manually.

edit: I just noticed in your post you state that the built in defrag runs automatically as well. I did not know this and am curious if this is true. If it were than I have serious issues knowing that 2 programs running in conjunction cannot keep my drives defragmented! :p

Go to start, enter "defrag" in search and select "defragment your hard drive" and you will see it has probably been running auto since you installed Win 7.

Ya I already did just that after reading the first post and sure enough it was set on a schedule for once a week defrag. Maybe this was causing Diskeeper to show it being defragmented since they may have ultimately placed files in locations each program sought to be better. In any case, I have already uninstalled Diskeeper and turned off the schedule on windows defrag and am running o&o. So far I like the simplicity of the GUI and of course it gives me the options for file exclusions which in my case is important since I have bootfiles for Acronis OS Selector that can't be moved.
 

My Computer

OS
Win 7 Ultimate x64
CPU
Intel i7 950 OC'd @ 4.0Ghz (SpeedStep ON)
Motherboard
ASUS P6X58D-E BIOS 0303
Memory
3x2GB Patriot Extreme Viper II Sector 7 DDR3 @ 1600mhz
Graphics Card(s)
ATI MSI 5870 900mhz/1300mhz
Sound Card
Onboard Realtek ALC889
Monitor(s) Displays
2 X 24" BenQ G2412HD
Screen Resolution
1920x1080p
Hard Drives
Intel X25-M 80 GB (SSD)
W.D. Caviar Black 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 1TB (SATA)
Seagate Barricuda 80GB (SATA)
PSU
Corsair AX850
Case
Antec 1200
Cooling
Lots and Lots of Air!
Keyboard
Razer Lycosa
Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder
Internet Speed
25Mbps/1Mbps
Honestly, I cannot say that I have really ever been able to "prove" a performance increase after having defragmented a Windows volume in quite some time. I'd say that I probably fire up the built-in windows defrag tool every 3 months or so and let it run overnight. I've tried others like defraggler and auslogics product and I didn't feel any difference after having used either of those either.

And I just recently switched to an SSD drive on my main machine...and there isn't a good reason to have to bother with defrag on these...so I expect to see my use of defragmented utilities dropping even more.
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Self-Built in July 2009
OS
Windows 7 Ultimate x64
CPU
Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz OC'd to 3.40Ghz
Motherboard
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R rev. 1.1, F12 BIOS
Memory
8GB G.Skill PI DDR2-800, 4-4-4-12 timings
Graphics Card(s)
EVGA 1280MB Nvidia GeForce GTX570
Sound Card
Realtek ALC899A 8 channel onboard audio
Monitor(s) Displays
23" Acer x233H
Screen Resolution
1920x1080
Hard Drives
Intel X25-M 80GB Gen 2 SSD
Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, 32MB cache. WD1001FALS
PSU
Corsair 620HX modular
Case
Antec P182
Cooling
stock
Keyboard
ABS M1 Mechanical
Mouse
Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
Internet Speed
15/2 cable modem
Other Info
Windows and Linux enthusiast. Logitech G35 Headset.
Defrag can be overused in terms of effectiveness, but I alwys run it after a couple of days of video editing. I use three volumes to process video and I frag each of them when done. The volume where I acquire from and ultimately write to maybe doesn't need to be fragged each time.
 
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