Windows 7 to be shipped in Europe sans IE

[Barman58]

The whole IE thing with the EU started because of a complaint from Opera.

What I find unfair is that all the flak has gone to Microsoft for bundling applications with the OS whereas Apple could probably include a copy of iKitcheSink with their Snow Leopard chargeable service pack and no one says anything.

If the EU is going to dictate what is part of the Operating System then they should at least be consistent

 

[colwood]

Does this mean IE can not be offered by windows update anymore in europe ?

 

[Dwarf]

Interesting point, Nigel.

The EU has already forced MS to remove Media Player from some editions of Windows (the N versions) because others have complained about the unfair advantage MS has with it being included in their OS. True, but nobody is forced to use that - they can download an alternative and use that instead; it is their own choice.

Let's run through this same argument with the inclusion of IE. Again, noone is forced to use IE - there are several other alternatives out there which people can download and use instead. Here lies the crunch, a catch-22 situation. Should the EU force MS to release versions of Windows without IE, just like they have without Media Player (see above), then how do you get online to download an alternative browser?

 

[jfar]

Interesting point, Nigel.

The EU has already forced MS to remove Media Player from some editions of Windows (the N versions) because others have complained about the unfair advantage MS has with it being included in their OS. True, but nobody is forced to use that - they can download an alternative and use that instead; it is their own choice.

Let's run through this same argument with the inclusion of IE. Again, noone is forced to use IE - there are several other alternatives out there which people can download and use instead. Here lies the crunch, a catch-22 situation. Should the EU force MS to release versions of Windows without IE, just like they have without Media Player (see above), then how do you get online to download an alternative browser?

What this is pointing out is that IE 8 will simply be a separate item manufacturers will have their own option to use or simply toss FireFox, Opera, Chrome, Netscape, Konqueror, or whatever they want on the systems they sell new. The home user that builds their own would download the browser ahead of time to back on removable even before upgrading to 7.

I think they want you to do this. as per Night Hawks post.

 

[jimbo45]

Looks like a browser/toolbar will be the order of the day for manufacturers ...

Nice one here

OMG what a real DOGS DINNER of a mess

How could anybody even THINK of working with a screen like that

Nice Pic BTW

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Barman58]

Hi,
the thing is that MS are not going to remove the network stack from Windows 7 just the HTTP port 80 front end that is IE8. All the other network functionality will have to remain, removing this would cripple the OS. As the stack is still there it would be possible for MS to include a link to download the actual IE on demand. This is the same as torrent, FTP, and eMail Etc. which works without IE. Whether they are forced to also include a link to Opera will remain to be seen.

I guess the fat lady hasn't sung yet, time will tell

The interesting thing is of course that MS has preempted the EU on this as the statement comes from MS not the EU, so I think MS may well have a plan in place for this. A simple tick box that ins on by default during install will keep the EU happy and will be left in place by the majority of installers

I can see the prompt Now ....

Enable Internet browsing? this will install Internet Explorer?

 

[jfar]

Hi,
the thing is that MS are not going to remove the network stack from Windows 7 just the HTTP port 80 front end that is IE8. All the other network functionality will have to remain, removing this would cripple the OS. As the stack is still there it would be possible for MS to include a link to download the actual IE on demand. This is the same as torrent, FTP, and eMail Etc. which works without IE. Whether they are forced to also include a link to Opera will remain to be seen.

I guess the fat lady hasn't sung yet, time will tell

The interesting thing is of course that MS has preempted the EU on this as the statement comes from MS not the EU, so I think MS may well have a plan in place for this. A simple tick box that ins on by default during install will keep the EU happy and will be left in place by the majority of installers

I can see the prompt Now ....

Enable Internet browsing?this will install Internet Explorer?

Sounds good, I like it.

 

[Boris]

Lots of ignorent people here. I wish people would think for they go of and rant...

 

[z3r010]

Lots of ignorent people here. I wish people would think for they go of and rant...

Please explain?

 

[Legacy Code]

I bet Apple are loving this , isn't snow leopard out soon as well ? not that I'm going to turn to the dark side as id rather have my genitals removed ( along side IE ) than buy a mac lol

 

[Boris]

What is the problem?

Will MS include option to download a browser?
Yes, offcourse!

Tell me please what is the problem? I really dont know. Accept that it seems to be cool to rant againt the EU. Makes me sad, people seem to have no sense of history

 

[jfar]

I think the only one ranting around here is yourself,
Everyone else here is just discussing the issue.

 

[Boris]

I think the only one ranting around here is yourself,
Everyone else here is just discussing the issue.

Then please educate me and explain what is your problem with this?

 

[Legacy Code]

Boris my problem is that EU bureaucrats are dictating on what i can and cant have on a PC that I'M paying for. Along with other rulings they have made in the past this just exaggerates the problem.

 

[jfar]

Then please educate me and explain what is your problem with this?

My problem is that, I don’t think MS should have to go to the lengths
that they are going to, just because some Gob daw in EU says that they cannot ship their Product,
in their Operating System, because it might be unfair to all the
Other companies that have browsers.

 

[Boris]

Boris my problem is that EU bureaucrats are dictating on what i can and cant have on a PC that I'M paying for. Along with other rulings they have made in the past this just exaggerates the problem.

The EU (dictators) in this case are representing the european consumers intrest in this case against a monopolist (MS 90%). IE is a free product like all other browsers (for a good reason ).

We geeks have a choice, we know how to install another browser. But I think 90% of the consumer have no clue about other browsers or how to install them. So in this way MS dictates the market. And I, like the EU, think the internet browser is a much to important communication/information tool to leave in the hands of one monopolist.

What annoys me a bit is the fact that most people think that MS main interest is that of the consumer and not their profitmargin. People forget so fast it almost painfull (Vista, IE6).

Competetion brings better and cheaper products. EU promotes this idea, not MS.

My problem is that, I don’t think MS should have to go to the lengths
that they are going to, just because some Gob daw in EU says that they cannot ship their Product,
in their Operating System, because it might be unfair to all the
Other companies that have browsers.

It is the other way around in my opion.

As discussed above, the EU sees MS as a monopolist in their market and therefore MS should not dictate what the consumer use as browser. I know geeks like us have no problem, but their is a larger issue at stake here.

It not only a question what is fair on other companies, but what is fair for the (average) consumer.

 

[jfar]

So now you will get certain browser companies approaching the likes of dell, and offering them bribes, or little brown envelopes to install their browser in the latest PCs, so now they have taken the choice of what browser to use, and placed it out in the wild which is worse in my opinion, next they will be telling the likes of BMW that they can build their beautiful cars, but you cannot put headlights on them ,"because other companies make headlights and it wouldn't be fair to them now would it".

So where will this all stop, in my opinion there are too many people in the EU
making rules, everyday more new rules, rules rules, there should be a rule made
to stop new rules, that was my rules rant,

 

[antt]

Like I was saying before anyone with a system like one with Vista presently on would download the browser of choice including IE 8 before the upgrade took place.

Have a floppy?

Back up a copy of the browser until 7 is up and running on an extra drive or removable media to then install that once 7 is on. In the event that I decide to install XP or Vista at some point IE 8 for each is already backed up on a storage drive here being a time saver and one less item to download through the update process.

I'm interested in how a regular consumer would know to download before they upgrade. All they know is pop in the disc and let it go, it will do all the work of keeping their user files safe. I hardly think that they will know to make a backup of their browser.

I personally think that the removal idea is silly. The public will react negatively when they can't find the big blue 'e' on their desktop, and instead learn that they have to use another browser that is completely new to them. They aren't going to know that they can download IE8; they will stick with what they've got, and Microsoft will take the fall for it. Not the EU.
What the public needs is education. Some don't know what an internet browser is. They just know it as 'the internet', and they click on the blue e. The EU's previous idea of a ballot system may be a better alternative, listing several different browsers with the ftp link to each. However, this can also cause discrimination. Why should Opera and Firefox be on the list if Lynx or JoeBloeBrowser can't?
Keep IE. But make the first startup show an educational page detailing what a browser is, and acknowledge that an internet search (not google search) can be used to find them. An educated person can make an informed decision. If they choose to keep IE, so be it.
You dont make sense.

 

[Boris]

So now you will get certain browser companies approaching the likes of dell, and offering them bribes, or little brown envelopes to install their browser in the latest PCs, so now they have taken the choice of what browser to use, and placed it out in the wild which is worse in my opinion, next they will be telling the likes of BMW that they can build their beautiful cars, but you cannot put headlights on them ,"because other companies make headlights and it wouldn't be fair to them now would it".

I will take your example to explain a bit further how I think you have to look to the other side of the problem:

If BMW had 90% of the car market and the would dicide to put in crap brakes on all their models. Would you like to have the option to have good quality brakes installed as an option (for free)? Or would you buy an Mac Lada instead?

The basic idea in capitalism is when you have none or little competion in a market, the goverment has to regulate otherwise you get a situation that is more alike to communisme

 

[jfar]

I will take your example to explain a bit further how I think you have to look to the other side of the problem:

If BMW had 90% of the car market and the would dicide to put in crap brakes on all their models. Would you like to have the option to have good quality brakes installed as an option? Or would you buy an Mac Lada instead?

Exactly as you say about the example
MS puts in their "crap brakes" = IE, in all their Operating Systems as standard, and everybody has the option to change their "brakes"/IE
if they so choose, and they do, every day of the week they are changing their browsers, so there is no problem with MS putting in IE into Their
Operating System, and if people dont like, it they can change it to
what ever browser they like, as many times as they like.