Windows 8 Dev release

[Dave76]

I mean come on Microsoft, you know a lot of us are still not relying on touch and you know that many of us would rather stick to the way the UI looks in Windows 7 right now. Many of us still use the mouse. I'd rather want to see programs, troubleshooting, usability, flexibility and functionality improved rather than just a fancy looking interface that actually made navigating harder for many people and have made some people give a thumbs down impression on Windows 8.

I can only hope that their next previews whatsoever will not look the way it is now.

I understand the sentiment (change is never taken well), but you ask Microsoft for improvements in programs, troubleshooting, usability, flexibility, and functionality and by and large they are going to be doing that.
...

Just my 2 cents, but I find it ironic that people blast Microsoft for not making things better, and when they try to do it, they get blasted for changing the way things used to work. Either you break with the past and realize that the future of computing is *not* the desktop for most users, or you stick with what you know and get left behind. As a for-profit company, Microsoft cannot do the latter, so the former is what is *going* to happen. And given Microsoft's size and dominance of the market, they're not likely to fail, either.

Very well said, it seems that everyone is asking for improvements and change but then a lot of people don't want change when it arrives, they want the same old operating system they have been using for years.

When something new is offered, take a little time and try it, by a little time I mean 2-3 weeks.
Figure out where everything is at, what you can change easily and what takes a little more determination to adjust to your liking.

When I first saw the new start menu I thought 'what the .... is this' then decided to give it a real shot.
It's not difficult to learn, kinda reminded me of looking for the 'shutdown' button in Vista, but once you find everything and start changing it to work like you want it to, I like it.
The start menu is a big desktop customization app like Rainmeter or Fences but, these apps will be icons and gadgets or any combination you want, or none.

Hopefully they will give you an option to startup in the desktop or new start menu, and improve the switching between the two.
This is an alpha version.

With all the talk about making it better and giving the user the choice, I'm sure they will build an OS for almost everyone.
For the individual preference, there is always the option of staying with Win7, Vista or even XP, as well as other choices.

It's new, it's different, take it and make it yours.
Resistance is futile...

 

[SIW2]

LOL.

It's like having a virus.

Stuff all over the screen you don't want - making it very awkward to do anything.

Many a true word etc ...

Seems people are being sidetracked by the metro rubbish.

The real intent is plain to see.

MS are locking it down.

Pushing people to their online services.

Locking out other o/s installations .

If you looked at pe4 - very hard to do anything with it.

You either do it the MS way or not at all.

In the light of the chorus of criticism , they will probably loosen it up a bit.

They can afford to that.

Only the enthusiasts will benefit from that - the masses will still be herded down the path MS has laid for them.

 

[Barman58]

What we have to remember here is what we are actually looking at - It is an Alpha preview specifically for the "metro" application developer.

It purposely concentrates on showcasing the "Metro" interface and Apps and so the desktop functionality will be less obvious.

Also, as anyone who went through the win7 development process will remember that the changes to the actual desktop UI, from Vista, was one of the last things to be visible. The addition of the ribbon to explorer and the new task manager are more likely to be accidents of development, (the teams developing those changes maybe simply more advanced than others), with much more to come in later previews and Betas

 

[Vertex]

Well, you open some apps on this Metro Start Menu and they don't have a close or minimize button making it uneasy to switch tasks. Yes, its "improvement" but a lot of people are concerned on the way you work with it, the way it looks and how you navigate. It doesn't have to be too complex. There are different opinions to it but personally, unless I'm a tablet fanboy, it won't be so appealing to me making me stick to my Windows 7. I'll give this Beta a score of 7 out of 10 stars.

If I was in a good seat at the design department of Microsoft, I would suggest they bring back the way the Start Menu works on Windows 7 and just tweak it a little bit. If I designed that thing, I would just incorporate the Metro thing with my desktop with a pane that slides up or down or left to right showing these little apps that go by, each with a close, minimize and maximize buttons.

Or maybe:

1. Just create a separate application that takes you to the Metro gallery that behaves somewhat like Windows Media Center. OR

2. Just put a separate button on the side of the task bar that takes you from the classic desktop to the Metro gallery to use all these new stuff they came up with.

3. Have the ribbon UI on Windows Explorer hidden by default.

And maybe I could give Windows 8 a score of 9.5. Yes, its on the BETA stage (of course there are future releases) but it itches on my mind how they missed to add some basic components like a close or minimize button on these Metro apps so you could switch tasks.

 

[cluberti]

Well, you open some apps on this Metro Start Menu and they don't have a close or minimize button making it uneasy to switch tasks. Yes, its "improvement" but a lot of people are concerned on the way you work with it, the way it looks and how you navigate. It doesn't have to be too complex. There are different opinions to it but personally, unless I'm a tablet fanboy, it won't be so appealing to me making me stick to my Windows 7. I'll give this Beta a score of 7 out of 10 stars.

It's not a beta, it's a developer preview - it's not even alpha quality at this time (as per Microsoft). There aren't a lot of "obvious" featues (like close buttons on metro apps) simply because that code isn't done. Complaining about a DP build is really silly.

If I was in a good seat at the design department of Microsoft, I would suggest they bring back the way the Start Menu works on Windows 7 and just tweak it a little bit.

If you'll notice, there is a tweak inside the DP itself to allow the old start menu to surface. That should be an indication that it's there, but this build is forcing developers to concentrate on the metro design aspects of the OS.

Yes, its on the BETA stage (of course there are future releases) but it itches on my mind how they missed to add some basic components like a close or minimize button on these Metro apps so you could switch tasks.

Again, it's *not* a beta, and it's not released as one. Unless you are a developer writing new software for Win7 against metro or WinRM, or a hardware OEM designing new hardware for Windows 7, this build is not designed for you. It *is* missing things, and sometimes it would seem, on purpose.

 

[Boastree]

I live about 20 mins from MS and know a couple of people that work there. I talk with the all the time and believe me this forum is a subject of discussion with them often. Complaining about anything in this forum does NOT go unheard and IS NOT silly. Folks keep up with the feed back, good and bad,....they are watching.

 

[SIW2]

Absolutely.

The earlier people raise their points - the more time MS has to take them in to consideration.

It would be very surprising if they didn't have a look around the various forums to see what opinions are.

 

[Vertex]

OK its a Developer Preview, much like an Alpha but I would stick into suggesting these ideas:



1. Bring back the way the Start Menu works on Windows 7 and just tweak it a little bit without having the need to fix something inside the Metro to get this back to the way it used to. I still love the glowing orb design on Windows 7's Start Menu over the flat looking button with a Windows logo on Windows 8.

2. Just put a separate button on the side of the task bar that takes you from the classic desktop to the Metro gallery to use all these new stuff they came up with.

3. Have the ribbon UI on Windows Explorer hidden by default.

4. And put the mythical reset option on Windows 8 that resets it like if it was a newly installed OS.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Change != Improvement

Either you break with the past and realize that the future of computing is *not* the desktop for most users, or you stick with what you know and get left behind. As a for-profit company, Microsoft cannot do the latter, so the former is what is *going* to happen. And given Microsoft's size and dominance of the market, they're not likely to fail, either.

IMO, doubtful.
Businesses licenses make up most of MicroSoft's income.
In my experience, most people in business (e.g. office workers) type data into Word, Excel and/or databases.

Very well said, it seems that everyone is asking for improvements and change but then a lot of people don't want change when it arrives, they want the same old operating system they have been using for years.

Change does not necessarily equal Improvement.

IMO, improvements are things like:

• Reduced RAM usage (Windows 8 uses 1/3 less RAM, than Windows 7 does on my PC).
• More efficient coding, so that more useful actions can be performed (Windows 8 doesn't seem slower than Windows 7).
• Improved security (Windows 8 built-in AV).
• Faster boot up (not so important to me, but lots of people complain about boot times).

For the record, my PC boot times (OS: Login + Desktop):

• Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bits): 26s + 4s
• Windows 8 D (64 bits): 27s + 7s
• Windows 7 U (64 bits): 33s + 10s
• Windows XP (32 bits): 40s + 15s

Note:
On my PC, Windows XP & 7 start some programs that Windows 8 doesn't (like Process Explorer and Virtual CloneDrive).

4. And put the mythical reset option on Windows 8 that resets it like if it was a newly installed OS.

It's hidden in the Metro UI.

 

[cluberti]

I live about 20 mins from MS and know a couple of people that work there. I talk with the all the time and believe me this forum is a subject of discussion with them often. Complaining about anything in this forum does NOT go unheard and IS NOT silly. Folks keep up with the feed back, good and bad,....they are watching.

Yes, agreed. However, complaining about a build that isn't half finished is mostly going to get you ignored. Microsoft takes input from users all of the time, so if you want a feature (or don't want a feature), then by all means send that feedback to Microsoft often. However, complaining that an alpha build has bugs or is missing features anywhere but connect isn't smart - take the feedback over to the Win8 page on connect, where the data gets fed directly into Microsoft's tracking databases.

 

[legacy7955]

MS if you are listening I still think that THE weakest line in any Windows OS has been Windows Update (WSUS) while it has improved steadily since early Win OS there continue to be problems, most notable with Win 7 has been the deployment of SP 1, lots of people have had problems and they don't seem to be related to malware or errant programs either, just failures of SP1 to properly install and function correctly. This is a SERIOUS issue that I hope MS will finally address and solve, as much as I like Windows OS (I have two systems, XP and 7) I am very apprehensive about installing SP1 for Win 7 as I don't want a disaster. As it is My Win 7 (no SP) is working perfectly and quickly just like it was designed to.

 

[cluberti]

Win7 failing almost always means the underlying OS it was applied to was already broken, it just hadn't been serviced in the "broken" area yet to bring it to the fore. I have looked at a few hundred Win7 SP1 failures, and I've yet to find one where the machine being updated wasn't already busted to begin with.

 

[legacy7955]

Win7 failing almost always means the underlying OS it was applied to was already broken, it just hadn't been serviced in the "broken" area yet to bring it to the fore. I have looked at a few hundred Win7 SP1 failures, and I've yet to find one where the machine being updated wasn't already busted to begin with.

That is even more troubling because I have heard of many people with BRAND spanking new machines with Win 7 where the owner with a Win 7 (original version) goes to update to SP1 immediately as the PC came out of the box and viola.....FAILED SP1!

Have any idea why this would be the case?

 

[cluberti]

That would be an interesting machine to get logs from - it usually isn't totally clean (and I've never personally seen it), but I never discount anything until I've seen (or not seen) it with my own eyes. In general, I see a lot of folks saying "I just installed Win7, and SP1 fails!" and I look at the logs and see they've used the machine for a few days, installed 30 programs, a few updates, antivirus, drivers, etc - you understand why I'm always skeptical. The WIM you get from Microsoft is already an image, and that image works if immediately updated (I've tried this many times without fail). So whatever happens, happens post-install - as to what, that's what we need log files for (specifically, cbs.log).

 

[Colonel Travis]

However, complaining about a build that isn't half finished is mostly going to get you ignored. Microsoft takes input from users all of the time, so if you want a feature (or don't want a feature), then by all means send that feedback to Microsoft often. However, complaining that an alpha build has bugs or is missing features anywhere but connect isn't smart - take the feedback over to the Win8 page on connect, where the data gets fed directly into Microsoft's tracking databases.

The first sentence contradicts everything that follows, but as an 8 complainer I've never expected anyone at MS to pay attention to anything I've ever complained about. At the same time, I know my complaints are shared by a lot of people who are never gonna go through Connect, so I expect MS to be paying attention to the general sentiments. If not, they're idiots.

Anyone who uses computers and/or devices expects them to be cool and useful. I don't care if you stare at spreadsheets all day long, if there's a way to make the spreadsheets more cool, without cutting into the output of your work (preferably enhancing it) then people like that. It doesn't have to be a major improvement in cool. It could be 5%. Doesn't matter. The point is that computer people like computer stuff to always be moving forward. Otherwise people would be camping outside a store for green monochrome monitors instead of an iPad. Apple may have more stuck-up snobs per capita than MS users, but Apple has steered the entire electronics industry - including MS - into directions no one knew existed, and I don't know anyone who'd rather turn around and go back.

Most 8 complainers are PC users complaining about Metro. And you can divide those complaints into two major categories:

1.) Problems with Metro itself.
2.) Metro feels like an OS slapped on top of an OS. There's little continuity between Metro and whatever the heck the rest of 8 is, which is different than 7 but not different enough to be called 8 if there had been no Metro. As far as I'm concerned, it's Windows 7 and 4/9ths.

The first set of complaints will be easy to fix. The second will not -at least, not now. Maybe the final version of 8 will be great and I'll be wrong, I really don't care. I just want an OS without an identity crisis and that's how I view 8 right now. The way MS has set up 8 - even though we're only in the dev stage - I don't know how they can overhaul it significantly between now and RTM to turn the complainers into enthusiastic buyers like they did with 7. The foundation is set.

What I am not reading - here and elsewhere - are gobs of people "who don't like change" or something vague along those lines. The complainers have specific, well-thought out complaints. And even if that criticism gets nowhere with MS, airing them out here or the 8 forum instead of, say, official MS channels, what's wrong with that? The 7 Forums brain trust is incredible, who knows what you can learn. Conversely, if MS does check this place out, they might learn stuff they'd never learn otherwise if they'd stuck to their typical feedback routine.

 

[Dave76]

Very well said, it seems that everyone is asking for improvements and change but then a lot of people don't want change when it arrives, they want the same old operating system they have been using for years.

Change does not necessarily equal Improvement.

IMO, improvements are things like:

• Reduced RAM usage (Windows 8 uses 1/3 less RAM, than Windows 7 does on my PC).
• More efficient coding, so that more useful actions can be performed (Windows 8 doesn't seem slower than Windows 7).
• Improved security (Windows 8 built-in AV).
• Faster boot up (not so important to me, but lots of people complain about boot times).

Agree, change definitely isn't always for the best, but isn't always for the worst either.

Change, as with beauty, is in the eye of the beholder