Windows Backup and Restore System Image

[BJB]

When you restore a system image does it automatically restore track 0 and the MBR? I ask because I've recently completed a clean install of Win 7 Ult, created a System Image and now want to replace the MS MBR with Grub4DOS in preparation for dual booting with Win 8 and being able to boot bootable ISOs from the boot menu. Previously I've always used Acronis for imaging, and that gives you a choice when restoring of whether to restore the MBR along with the system partition. However with this new install I want to use Backup and Restore.

 

[BJB]

Seems the answer is no, it does not, and Win 7 Repair doesn't fix it either. After installing Grub4DOS as boot manager Win 7 booted normally, but when I then restored the System Image it failed to boot. In anticipation of possible boot problems I had also taken an Acronis image before any of these changes and that did restore track 0 and the MBR and all was well. However I would still like to have the capability to restore my System Image and make it bootable without having to resort to Acronis, so can anyone help with that? I have tried rebuilding the MBR in Partition Wizard but that didn't fix it.

EDIT - and what has happened to the Log Out button - can't see it anywhere?

 

[mjf]

I'm not sure sure what is going on here since I'm not that familiar with Grub4Dos but Windows system image restore does restore the MBR which is sector one (512 bytes only). Are you able to wipe track 0 before doing a system image restore.

PS: the reason you know the MBR is replaced is that you can restore a system image to a new HDD without problem. (ie it boots fine).

 

[Kaktussoft]

MBR is sector #0 of physical disk (first 512 bytes). It has:

• disk signature (not that important). Some kind of barcode to identidy the disk.
• partition table (modified dynamically when you create/delete/move/resize partitions).
• Master boot code. For example GRUB or win7 MBR boot code.

When backing up with macrium reflect the MBR will be backupped. As far as I know only the partition table. It's necessary so that it can show the original size and positition of partitions.

Macrium Reflect backups and restores partitions..... not mbr

 

[Kaktussoft]

I was partitially wrong! The master boot code will be backupped. And CAN be restored if you wish Master Boot Record

 

[mjf]

My understanding is that the OP is talking about Windows inbuilt system imaging.

Re: Macrium it's news to me it doesn't restore the full MBR. I used it to transfer an image to my SSD and don't recall needing to use startup repair or bootrec /fixmbr.
Macrium Reflect used to have an option not to replace the MBR unlike Windows which insists on it.

Back to the OP. I cannot understand how a pre GRUB Windows image has problems.

 

[BJB]

Back to the OP. I cannot understand how a pre GRUB Windows image has problems.

Not quite what I said -

"After installing Grub4DOS as boot manager Win 7 booted normally, but when I then restored the System Image it failed to boot."

The problem does lie with track 0, which not only contains the Grub4DOS bootcode, but also contains the partition table, so wiping the whole of the track isn't an option for me as the drive is partitioned and contains very much more than Windows. Isn't it just typical of Microsoft that they give you a command to fix the MBR, which is only the first sector of track 0, but pretend that what others do is unimportant so no need to offer a tool that can write the whole of track 0. I had a look at SeaTools for DOS but that clears the whole of track 0 so can't use it.

 

[Kaktussoft]

Back to the OP. I cannot understand how a pre GRUB Windows image has problems.

Not quite what I said -

"After installing Grub4DOS as boot manager Win 7 booted normally, but when I then restored the System Image it failed to boot."

The problem does lie with track 0, which not only contains the Grub4DOS bootcode, but also contains the partition table, so wiping the whole of the track isn't an option for me as the drive is partitioned and contains very much more than Windows. Isn't it just typical of Microsoft that they give you a command to fix the MBR, which is only the first sector of track 0, but pretend that what others do is unimportant so no need to offer a tool that can write the whole of track 0.

It's useless to rewrite the partition table (it goes automatically on create/resize/move/delete)
It's useless to overwrite the disk signature

Was GRUB4DOS already in MBR at time of backup?

 

[Kaktussoft]

You can save and restore master boot code in linux:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Disk_Cloning

to backup (just an example):

dd if=/dev/hda of=/mnt/sda1/mbr.img bs=446 count=1

to restore (just an example):

dd if=/mnt/sda1/mbr.img of=/dev/hda bs=446 count=1

 

[BJB]

Was GRUB4DOS already in MBR at time of backup?

No, thank goodness! That image is my only way back to a booting system atm.

I've seen the Linux solutions while searching but the only Linux I have is a Puppy disk for accessing my files if ever necessary.

 

[mjf]

Not quite what I said -

"After installing Grub4DOS as boot manager Win 7 booted normally, but when I then restored the System Image it failed to boot."

So what are you saying. My natural assumption is you made the Windows system image before installing Grub - yes or no? If you made it before then you should have no problem booting after a reimage.
If this is the case and you have problems booting then it is more likely that you have some inherent problem with the inbuilt Windows system imaging program and are best using a 3rd party imaging program such as free Macrium Reflect..

You can try using the Windows image restore again then run the startup repair option (from a system repair CD) up to 3 times booting between. This should fix up boot problems (MBR, bootmgr, BCD). There are other ways to fix up the MBR and boot files but try that first.

 

[Kaktussoft]

Was GRUB4DOS already in MBR at time of backup?

No, thank goodness! That image is my only way back to a booting system atm.

I've seen the Linux solutions while searching but the only Linux I have is a Puppy disk for accessing my files if ever necessary.

Don't understand. So you say you hadn't installed GRUB4DOS at the moment of backup? So of course it's not in the backup

 

[mjf]

So what's the "not quite what I said" all about. You have a problem with your image. See my previous post (#11) on how you might resolve it if it is only a booting issue.

 

[Kaktussoft]

Not quite what I said -

"After installing Grub4DOS as boot manager Win 7 booted normally, but when I then restored the System Image it failed to boot."

So what are you saying. My natural assumption is you made the Windows system image before installing Grub - yes or no? If you made it before then you should have no problem booting after a reimage.
If this is the case and you have problems booting then it is more likely that you have some inherent problem with the inbuilt Windows system imaging program and be using a 3rd party imaging program such as free Macrium Reflect..

You can try using the Windows image restore again then run the startup repair option (from a system repair CD) up to 3 times booting between. This should fix up boot problems (MBR, bootmgr, BCD). There are other ways to fix up the MBR and boot files but try that first.

startup repair and other win7 repair tools like bootrec/fixmbr overwrite the master boot code with the win7 default master boot code. That's what he likes to avoid.

 

[BJB]

So what are you saying. My natural assumption is you made the Windows system image before installing Grub - yes or no?

Yes

If you made it before then you should have no problem booting after a reimage.

I've tried it twice, hung at boot both times

You can try using the Windows image restore again then run the startup repair option (from a system repair CD) up to 3 times booting between. This should fix up boot problems (MBR, bootmgr, BCD). There are other ways to fix up the MBR and boot files but try that first.

I did use a system repair disk the previous times but I'll give it a third go . Thanks for that.

 

[Kaktussoft]

So what are you saying. My natural assumption is you made the Windows system image before installing Grub - yes or no?

Yes

If you made it before then you should have no problem booting after a reimage.

I've tried it twice, hung at boot both times

You can try using the Windows image restore again then run the startup repair option (from a system repair CD) up to 3 times booting between. This should fix up boot problems (MBR, bootmgr, BCD). There are other ways to fix up the MBR and boot files but try that first.

I did use a system repair disk the previous times but I'll give it a third go . Thanks for that.

So GRUB4DOS was definitely not in backup.

I've tried it twice, hung at boot both times

What error did you get? Or freeze? Some grub or win7 related stuff on screen?

 

[mjf]

startup repair and other win7 repair tools like bootrec/fixmbr overwrite the master boot code with the win7 default master boot code. That's what he likes to avoid.

This is a one time suggestion to boot the desired Window image. Unless the Windows image is particularly important I'd scrap it since he has a working Acronis image. You need to be pragmatic about system imaging. If your PC configuration is experiencing problems with Windows inbuilt imaging then move on to another program (eg. Macrium Reflect).

 

[BJB]

What error did you get? Or freeze? Some grub or win7 related stuff on screen?

Just the Win 7 splash screen for about 30 seconds and a reboot. It didn't get near Windows so there won't be anything in Event Viewer

 

[BJB]

This is a one time suggestion to boot the desired Window image. Unless the Windows image is particularly important I'd scrap it since he has a working Acronis image. You need to be pragmatic about system imaging. If your PC configuration is experiencing problems with Windows inbuilt imaging then move on to another program (eg. Macrium Reflect).

It won't be the end of the world if I can't use it as, as you say, I have an Acronis image. But I took three Windows Backup images at progressive intervals of a clean install and these could possibly have been useful in the future.

For routine system backups I'm perfectly happy with Acronis so no Macrium here

Thanks for the help

 

[Kaktussoft]

What error did you get? Or freeze? Some grub or win7 related stuff on screen?

Just the Win 7 splash screen for about 30 seconds and a reboot. It didn't get near Windows so there won't be anything in Event Viewer

So it did pass the win7 boot menu entry. So it was written by win7 bootmgr.

Win7 splash screen.... it was booting win7!!! No grub at all.... because it wasn't in backup.
I don't know why it rebooted. It did crash... without bsod dump I can't determine anything.

Problem seems unrelated to grub4dos