No end in sight

I have just been reading about the 8th gen Intel processors (?Coffeelake) and the Z370 chipsets and I am really lost for any hope of ever doing another build as any future proofing has gone out of the window (no pun intended) and it certainly makes for what little pleasure we/I have enjoyed over the last few years since the Sandy and Ivy Bridge builds has followed that hope down the insatiable gurgler of whatever Intel and Microsoft are planning.
To me personally Windows for for one has lurched from one good build to another XP > Vista > 7 > 8.1 > 10 and now in my mind is lost in a system that is not enjoyable anymore partly because a lot of the control that we had in 7 has now been taken away in favour of app based models of the OS which to a fairly simple minded and semi savvy person such as I have some degree of difficulty in taking part in any forum for example. The Seven Forum it appeared to me a happy and pleasant place to be able to take some degree of participation whereas the Ten Forum I am finding bogged down in tech talk that the system is built around it's (to me) convoluted GUI's and settings.
All in all it gives me the impression that unless one is or as some formal training or study of IT matters it only leaves open the door of getting help with the 10 system when I run up against some problem I cannot figure out again that is proving more often than not.
But this is just my own personally feelings on computing both as an enjoyable and useful service/activity and I have heard from many that I am in contact with through various means that they also feel the same way.

There will always be a "new improved" whatever. Its "Marketing 101". I built a new desktop for my recording studio (finished it the first of December last year). Its a Z170 with an i7 6700K. Its already 2 versions behind and the "9" series is looming. Unless you are a developer or a hobbyist that is flush with money we will never keep up.

As far as the OS, its not just Microsoft. I have an Apple iPad ("new" iPad) and Apple has obsoleted it as iOS9 is as far as it can accept. Its not compatible with iOS10 or the new/current iOS11. Several of the Apps I have on the iPad are not no longer useable as they have been updated for iOS11 and are not backward compatible with iOS9.

I hear what you are saying Jack and you are right but it is to exponential growth of the tech that I think is in part way killing the experience for me. I mean not only are the gens spiraling up but so are the costs ie I saw GPU's advertised just in the last few days at a sale price of $999!!

Now I don't know about you but that being the case any future build for me is out of the question and with the OS Microsoft is putting out now and the cutting back on what you can control on your own machine that you have paid for and the software of course and it could be seen to becoming like a police state where eventually we shall have no control over much at all.

It is very sad it has got to this and I see those around me having their lives driven by the need to have the latest tech and their lives ruled by the need to have what the large corporations beit Microsoft or Apple etc etc say they need and are having to have. Just look at the light speed that mobile phone tech is going through now I have a 10 month old Google Pixel phone and it has been superseded already and I would hazard a guess has been in the "wings" way before now.

Well for what it is worth I used to enjoy computing and everything that went with it especially in this forum and all the really pleasant folks like yourself that I have met during that time. Problem is like I mentioned in my first post I just find the 10 forum overwhelming and very "clinical" for want of a better term.
Probably just as well I have taken up trying out acrylic painting after many years doing my water colours - at least they cannot control that - or can they :sarc:

Have you tried Linux? I have tried both Ubuntu (and its variants) and Mint, and I really like Linux Mint. With the xfce interface, it is close enough to Windows so that there isn't a big learning curve. Also, it took me some time, but I have become pretty proficient with Libre Office. Just about everything I need works very well in Linux Mint, although there are a few things which don't work: one thing is that I haven't figured out how to get my scanner working. (I will soon!)

Linux Mint 32-bit runs like a champ on my 1-1/2 year old Dell (Haswell CPU) computer.

I am fed up with Microsoft for the same reasons you are, and so I decided to make the move to Linux now, so that I would be proficient enough with it so as to be able to abandon Microsoft when Windows 7 support ends in 2020. I set up a dual-boot on my computer -- I have three hard drives: one for Linux, one for Windows 7, and one for data; and I have a SATA power switch, so that I can easily power down and switch to the other OS, while my data drive is always on and available with both OSs. I rarely go into Windows these days, because I'm just about at the point where I can say "adios" to Microsoft.

I'm sure you have tried Linux. If not, then trying it out will be a welcome diversion for you from the hassles of Microsoft.

Yes Jim I have tried the Linux line up and I really am a fan of Ubuntu as I find the terminal stuff in Mint a little overpowering and Zorin well it fell off the perch when I tried updating it taking with it a dual boot 7 and to be honest it looked good at first try but the constant updating was a tad nerve racking.

The Ubuntu I stumbled over a few years ago and have used it to unlock drives for data on family machines where they have forgotten the password after long spells of no use. I just like the GUI of it and shortly if I can get my tester machine ( a no name build with a Q9650 core) going again I might leave it as only Ubuntu though a dual boot with the 7 I have the machines copy might be a good option.

Right now my Sandy Bridge is in 10 mode and my Ivy Bridge well is taking a vacation somewhere in the outer solar system I think LOL!! But I still have my sons old bulid in 7 as is one of my laptops runnign a dual 10/7 boot the one I use most is in 10 mode and frankly I wish I had the nerve to dual boot this one as I use it the most now.

It is just right now I am a bit disenchanted with computing because of what is going on like I said I find this forum really friendly after many years of being on it and well the 10 forum is like I said a tad clinical for my sort of usage. So hence my get back to painting is a) not as expensive and b) to be honest more enjoyable.

ICIT2LOL said:

I really am a fan of Ubuntu as I find the terminal stuff in Mint a little overpowering

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Its the same command line/terminal in both.

Well I sort of knew that Colin but I just meant the GUI in Ubuntu is preferential for me I know there are certain things that have to be done via the terminal and it is just the way things are right now with Windows it has in my mind as per 10 become as I stated quite a clinical environment and one that I don't really feel that comfortable with as it was in 7 because it certainly seems to have less of the friendly banter as I guess a lot of the old crew have gone over to 10 while still keeping in touch with 7. It is just shame things have gone the way they have for us semi to loosely savvy people such as I as it does appear to me it needs an in depth knowledge now to take part in anything much. The party is over for me at least and quite a few of my friends too.

In any case I just use the machine in the main now for emails and purchasing banking etc my time is now more into my painting. I also often wonder what some of the members who have passed ie Gary would have made of it as I looked to him as sort of mentor when I first started getting into the swing of things. But I suppose all good things must come to an end as is oft said.

I've worked with computers, starting in 1961, and that was my career. Change was the one thing that was always happening. Whether with an Operating System (Supervisor as IBM called the mainframe OS) or with hardware or with software or with procedures. Anyone in the industry just accepted it and went on with their business. I see no difference today with PC's.

However, most businesses do not immediately upgrade every time something new comes along. Its too costly to the business and the reason there are many, today, still using XP or Win 7. Along with the cost of the new hardware and software, there is the cost to retrain employees, including the loss production while the employee is in training. After a couple of years of Win 10, businesses are slowly migrating to the new system (and upgrading hardware) but it will be years before they are completely off of old OS' and hardware.

Just because there is a new model CPU or new peripheral interface or new OS version, that does not mean I must immediately buy or download it. I don't plan on upgrading what I built in November of last year for at least 3 or 4 years. I'll still be relevant.

Don't let it get you down. Just go on with what you have and when you must upgrade then do it - whether tomorrow, next year or whenever. Many are either afraid or don't like Win 10 because of change. Because of my computer background and attending "managing change" seminars I'm able to cope with it.

Yes I hear you again Jack and it isn't that I don't like 10 per se' what bothers me about it is the way that ones control over your own machine has been taken away ie updates. I was really very annoyed the other evening when typing an email to have them shut down my computer to install an update. now if they can do that remotely what else are they doing?? is what I immediately thought.

The forum I find as I said a bit clinical and the 7 forum seems to have wound back quite a bit and it just isn't the forum it was but anyway I shall pg on with it but just not as much as I used to and like I said I have got into my painting again and I have to say YouTube is a handy tool for that so I shall just keep using what I have.
The other reason for not building again too is the cost prices out here are unbelievably high if you want something like a Sky, Kaby or Coffeelake set up and using an i7 because both my laptops have i7's and I can see why it is the only choice because the other machines with i5 cores just don't stack up well not what I have got. Plus there is the fact that you build something and you can depend on something "better" being released in no time at all how they keep up with re configuring factories etc is just mind numbingly bizarre for want of a better term.

Anyway mate I am not going to top myself over it just disappointed.

Months ago I gave Windows10 a serious try. I mean, everything works just fine on Windows7, but I though it's time to be more up to date (especially because I already skipped Vista and Win8x). I need to emphasize, that I wanted to "like" Windows10.. I wanted to find things where I could say "yep, Windows10 is worth to keep". But that didn't happen.

The thing is, as for OS itself, there's nothing new in Windows10 really -it's 18years old OS, patched with updates. Meaning, we install some software and there's no guarantee all garbage will be collected during uninstall.. every software we install can "play" with registry at will, etc. In short: it's an OS that can't protect itself.

But I knew that (from reviews) when I installed Windows10. It was telemetry and "out of control" updates, what made my decision to go back to Windows7. There was a reason MS offered Windows10 for "free"... No, I don't wear tinfoil hat

I have upgraded my PC with SkyLake CPU, made Windows7 clean install and everything works just perfect -I say that again, because we can read too many times how "Windows7 doesn't support new CPU's" (shame on you MS). And as it seems, Windows7 will work just fine on just coming CoffeeLake CPU's too. Where will is, there's a way...

I'm aware that I will need to change OS at some point. Maybe in a year, or in five years... I'm not in hurry.

For my Recording studio system, Win 10 was a plus. My audio recording latency dropped from (Useable) 6.1 ms to 4.2 ms. That is significant in recording system audio latency. There are several other "under the hood" audio enhancements, too.

"Windows7 doesn't support new CPU's" (shame on you MS)

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Yes well mate I agree with what you say and I think not only shame on M$ but also Intel for being in cahoots with them and as for the board makers well they are not so innocent in all this.

A shame all round really because 7 is just fine by me. I do run 10 but in a 7 style but 10 still has far too much control over what we do with our machines.

fireberd said:

For my Recording studio system, Win 10 was a plus. My audio recording latency dropped from (Useable) 6.1 ms to 4.2 ms. That is significant in recording system audio latency. There are several other "under the hood" audio enhancements, too.

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Yes Jack it would be good it is just a shame that it also has it's downsides too.

@Fireberd
I'm aware that Windows10 has many improvements under the hood. Many core OS components have been improved in performance and many (I assume) make better use of more recent hardware. Was one of the reasons why I gave Windows10 a serious try. As I've mentioned, one day I'll be forced to rethink all that again

@ICOT2LOL
It's hard to say who's the player in this "game". I mean, if I'm not mistaken, it's Intel who provided solution for how to install Windows7 on SkyLake CPU motherboards: by providing drivers for (next-gen) USB3.x -as it came out, it wasn't about CPU really. So, at the end, I tend to think it was MS who spread FUD:
-Win7 isn't supported anymore (sounded like Win7 will stop working tomorrow),
-upcoming CPU's aren't supported (sounded like "you can use Win7 only on ancient hardware"),
-"free" Windows10 was pushed beyond belief, etc. etc.

My humble opinion... At that time, MS didn't really had something new. But it already invested a lot of time (and money) into "metro".. and MS needed to find a way how to tie users to Windows regardless -as we know, MS didn't become some big player in smartphones/tablets segment. And young people talk Android only...

At the end, everyone should use what suits the best

MS deliberately blocked those CPUs.
There were no W7 technical issues, only MS' W10 problems (i.e. a lot of people won't touch it).

Unfortunately I think that enough people have installed it now, so it won't be eliminated the way the awful W8 Series was.

lehnerus2000 said:

MS deliberately blocked those CPUs.
There were no W7 technical issues, only MS' W10 problems (i.e. a lot of people won't touch it).

Unfortunately I think that enough people have installed it now, so it won't be eliminated the way the awful W8 Series was.

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Running a fully up to date Windows 7 Professional here (well, minus the processor blocking update MS released earlier this year) on a Kaby Lake system without any issues. Oh, and I don't have any of the optional updates released over the past couple of years (especially the telemetry ones) installed either. Security updates only.

Even my Gigabyte B250M-D3H motherboard that I bought in April had drivers for W7 - and despite hinting that they were for 6th Generation processors only and not 7th they work perfectly - no missing drivers in Device Manager. There's even updated drivers for W7 on their website. I think Gigabyte realized they were going to lose a lot of sales if they didn't support W7 on 7th Generation processors.

I will keep using W7 as long as I possibly can. I have W10 already "registered" on this machine with the "free upgrade". If I am eventually forced onto W10 it will be a dual boot W10/Linux setup with W10 kept offline (after activating it, of course) and using Linux for all online activities.

(I have blanked out the Product ID from the attached screenshot)

There ya go, W7 on a Kaby Lake.

Good job

Well that is a turn up for the books I was under the impression Kaby was out of the park. All in all an unpleasant situation all round in my mind as I couldn't see how the wheel was broken??

Well, going to agree with most posts here.

Microsoft is going a way that I don't like. Ok yes I run Windows 10 now, it has some major improvements, but also some major blocks. Especially at work, where we use the Pro version because the company is still too small for Enterprise or volume licenses (but getting bigger as months go by), and even if you uninstall their default programs they just get reinstalled right away. Even with the option for the drivers where we set it not to install new drivers from Microsoft, that option just doesn't work.

Hell, even on my main Desktop I have to reinstall the chipset drivers everytime I start the computer which is annoying. I've tried multiple solutions and none of them worked. I'm planning on doing a clean install of Windows 10 since I'm currently running on an upgrade from Windows 7, which they did get right this time around.

The problem is there's so much stuff we lost control over with Microsoft... If it wasn't for games I'd probably be a Linux only user by now.

Sbrideau said:

Well, going to agree with most posts here.

Microsoft is going a way that I don't like. Ok yes I run Windows 10 now, it has some major improvements, but also some major blocks. Especially at work, where we use the Pro version because the company is still too small for Enterprise or volume licenses (but getting bigger as months go by), and even if you uninstall their default programs they just get reinstalled right away. Even with the option for the drivers where we set it not to install new drivers from Microsoft, that option just doesn't work.

Hell, even on my main Desktop I have to reinstall the chipset drivers everytime I start the computer which is annoying. I've tried multiple solutions and none of them worked. I'm planning on doing a clean install of Windows 10 since I'm currently running on an upgrade from Windows 7, which they did get right this time around.

The problem is there's so much stuff we lost control over with Microsoft... If it wasn't for games I'd probably be a Linux only user by now.

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Well I agree with all of this and for what it is worth I feel in some manner our own personal choice is and will be denied even further as time goes by it is if one wants to be honest a quite dictatorial state which we find ourselves in.
I for one have lost so much interest in computing now as it has become such that one almost needs a degree in IT to actually function within the 10 OS it certainly is not the system that I was looking to be enjoying.
For example my machine was shut down by M$ just the other evening so that an update could be downloaded and installed and without even so much as a by your leave. Luckily it was only a brief email that I was in the middle of but all the same what if I had been in the middle of a banking or business transaction?? I think at least one should eb given soem form of warning and prepare oneslef for this to happen.
Now Sbrideau if that is what you are going to do I personally would do it on a new drive as upgrades it is clear to me are not something that you would try to install over even using a clean or clean all function on the drive.
I agree too that if the Linux systems were a little more user friendly I would also have done a lot more using those systems.