Resellers lack of training

[DebraPearse]

Hi there
I am not generally a person that gets on a forum just to have a winge.....BUT I am right royally P'd off with Microsoft and Microsoft resellers especially.
My old computer died and wasn't worth spending the money fixing or upgrading it, so, off I go and buy a brand spanking new computer. HHHHmmm, one gets NO choice as to the operating system that comes with a new computer these days, windows 7 or nothing.
Gripe #1 - Microsoft resellers:
Lack of training by resellers to their staff. Perhaps it would be a good idea to train staff in advising customers that when you buy a new computer that comes preinstalled with window7 64bit means not being able to run any of your old 32bit software/hardware. I wonder at how many non technical computer customers have had to go out and buy new printers/scanners/software, thus adding to the cost of buying a new computer. People like myself who are fairly computer literate go down the road of downloading XP mode and creating virtual pc (which I truly believe caused my computer crash) of course having to upgrade from win7 home premium to win7 professional too ($200.00).
Gripe #2 - Microsoft:
Why develop an operating system that creates confusion for the average/ordinary computer users? Once upon a time you always got the OS disk in the box, does Microsoft have no say with companies like Acer or HP etc as to insisting this still takes place....I suppose it all comes down to the almighty $ & company profits etc

When I get my 3 month old computer back from the technician who discovered that the reason I couldn't fix it myself is that the windows7 os was gone...just gone, all that was left was the rubbish bin and that was empty and the repair/backups/restore disks I made so I could reinstall if need be wouldn't work. I have had to buy windows7 (at least I'll have the original OS disk) and will reinstall with 32 bit.
Cheers
Deb

 

[alphanumeric]

Windows 7 64 bit can and will run most 32 bit programs and software. Drivers for some hardware can be a problem though on a 64 bit OS. I've had no problems running the programs I used in windows XP on my Windows 7 x64 PC.

 

[MWRed]

Also, it's not so simple. First question is, what other OS would it be?
It needs to be something that is supported, something that a majority of the people want, and know. There really is no other choice for mainstream everyday computers. No one is going to have any success trying to sell PC's with an OS that is out of date, and soon to not be supported.

The issue with the companies(Like HP and Acer) is the licensing of the operating system. What you are getting is a computer with an OS installed. NOT a full copy of the OS.....ur getting THEIR version of the OS. It's $$$$$$$

Long gone are the days of getting a computer WITH a normal FULL copy of the install disks.

If I were to walk into a Best-Buy or place like that, and started tellingthem what I wanted, they'd freak on me. I have always built my own, Bought my own copy of the OS and put it together, without all of the extra junk that goes into a store bought PC, and in full control of what is on it the first time I turn it on.

Pre-made computers are NOT really personal computers....they're the computers that THEY make you think that you need. And the problem is that people still insist on buying them from thses big-box stores.

 

[Trucidation]

The issue with the companies(Like HP and Acer) is the licensing of the operating system. What you are getting is a computer with an OS installed. NOT a full copy of the OS.....ur getting THEIR version of the OS. It's $$$$$$$

Long gone are the days of getting a computer WITH a normal FULL copy of the install disks.

This. One of my biggest peeves. Last I heard discs were cheap. Instead of this precarious "repair partition" crap, why can't they simply add OS discs as well? Sure, key it to our specific machine if that makes their alternative licensing scheme happy (damn cheap schmucks), but at least give us some goddamn discs that we can at least point to if something goes wrong. And it's not like things never go wrong - it's usually just a matter of when.

Back in the day with XP I'd simply grab a, er, Jack Sparrow edition and clean out my machine and get a brand spanking new install set to MY preferences. I'd rather not be doing that, but with the amount of crap I keep seeing on new laptops I'm sorely tempted.

 

[DebraPearse]

Alphanumeric: I had no issues with my printer or MYOB but my scanner and accu check 360 (glucose monitoring/managment system for diabetics) would not run and for some reason Canon still doesn't have updated drivers for my scanner that is the only reason I went down the virtual pc XP mode road which still didn't work.
MWRed: My old computer I had made for me and I have to admit that this is the first time I have ever bought (well actually my Mum bought it for me) a computer off the shelf and I might add, it will be the last. The funny thing is - I got the Acer desktop mainly for the family to use, I myself have a mac book (I love it) on the same day my sister got a toshiba laptop and hers came loaded with 32 bit and she got her OS disks too....I guess companies like Acer didn't want the 20 cents per disk it would cost them to disrupt their profit margins!!!
Trucidation: I guess I am an XP person, loved it and knew it like the back if my hand - being unfamiliar with windows7 didn't help with my frustration levels I was a bit the same when I went from win95 straight to win98 but never had a problem of any kind with XP.
Thanks for the feedback everyone
cheers
Deb

 

[FerchogtX]

I personally think that everything has a con and a pro, I HAD to buy a preloaded computer a while ago (my actual laptop, from Acer) and I was pretty aware of all the bloatware and crap will be loaded with it... fortunately, I could get rid of all that stuff (clean install or Windows 7 with the OEM key) and now it even works faster.

It's sad that the people that works on this places just think that filling a new PC with loads of crap is selling a good product, even worse is the fact that they nevr suply instalation disks for you, instead you need to use their "recovery" tools, that take HOURS to do a simple restore to factory settings... (Is way faster to just wipe the HDD and reinstall windows...).

Even in the parts market (when you buy computer parts) you find foolish people that tries to convince you that onboard VGA's are better than todays ATI PCI-E products... or worse... they try to convince you that X processor is better that the one you look for (even if you know abot tests and performance comparisons, and even tech stuff about the product you want to buy).

I agree with DebraPearse, resellers should know what they are selling and they MUST inform the customer clearly about what they are about to buy. This in my country is the "every day piece of bread", I always need to solve my issues on my own (with the help of the people here in the forums of course) and is btter, because the only thing they can say is "Is your fault, pleasse bring your PC here at the tech store..." just to fill their budget. They dn't know, even how to troubleshoot their own failful drivers (when they get some...)

I hope this will improve someday, but the only people that can get that happening are us.

See ya!!!

 

[Dzomlija]

I don't think that Microsoft can or even wants to control what companies like HP, Dell, Acer, etc. do, although one wishes they would. I too remember the day when a proper Windows CD/DVD came included with the computer.

But these days, all one gets is a recovery partition and a utility program that creates the recovery discs for you. And NO instructions on how to use said utility.

Lack of training is definiitely a problem, but greed I think is the biggest issue. Several months before I got fired (different story), I showed a customer how to get his old usb scanner (which was no longer supported by Canon on Windows 7 x64) to work using Windows XP Mode. Oh, my boss was impressed that I was able to get it working, but when the customer left, and we where alone, he hauled me into his office and had a hissy fit because "I should have instead sold the customer a new scanner supported by x64, instead of getting the old one to work".

Me, I'm all about customer service, and have always made it a personal and professional mission to ensure that my customers have all the information they need in order to make an informed decision, and have never hesitated to fully explain both the pros and cons of a particular purchase. Sure, sometimes the cons are a put-off to the customer and I lost a sale, but most of the time my honesty and clarity won out, and my customers have always walked out happy.

My motto is this: "I don't want my customer returning because they have to. I want them coming back because they want to"

 

[whs]

Everybody is out to make the most money for the least cost. Once you understand this principle, a lot of what is going on becomes clear. For little money you do not get Nobel price winners, you get morons. And the result is what you are seeing. If you want to test my theory, call one of the help desks or go into one of their chat rooms.

 

[mjf]

Do your homework and treat sales people as simply collectors of your money.

I do actually own an Acer desktop and would not buy another. Customer support is poor (I'm being kind) but I've been advised it's no better with other major Brands. You are buying complex hardware and software for a relatively low price just don't breach your warranty and hold them to it.

Support for the Windows Operating system is were Resellers and MS probably can be criticized. MS will say it's the resellers (eg. Acer, HP etc.) responsibility. In the early days Acer wanted to charge me for support.
The advice you will find on this forum will generally beat, hands down, any advice you will get from an MS or Reseller call center. Often you don't even have to ask a question just search your topic area and read the tutorials.

 

[pparks1]

Instead of this precarious "repair partition" crap, why can't they simply add OS discs as well? Sure, key it to our specific machine if that makes their alternative licensing scheme happy (damn cheap schmucks), but at least give us some goddamn discs that we can at least point to if something goes wrong. And it's not like things never go wrong - it's usually just a matter of when.

Couple of things play into this. #1). The manufacturers have deals with software vendors and hardware vendors to pre-load stuff on the machine. This gives the OEM kickbacks and drops their prices...which they can pass onto the computer through lower priced computers. #2). The manufacturers offer a warranty on the systems they sell. It's easier for them to support a system that is using their build and install and is consistent. Hence the reason they want you, the consumer, to use their disk images or image restore utilities from the hard drive.

 

[Lunarpancake]

dont know if anyone mentioned this yet, but it sounds like the shop you took your new machine to fed you a bunch of BS.

This happens for two reasons:

1) they cant fix the issue and need a reason why they had to format your pc
2) they charge more for new formats since it takes a long time to do generally speaking


It sounds like you have a somewhat closed-minded approach to windows 7. Maybe you should have ordered from a manufacturers website and paid the extra $99.00 for the windows XP downgrade or purchased another custom build.

Sorry to be a bit harsh but I think you are acting a little bit rash with your opinion on win7 and microsoft (who has nothing to do with how their resellers sell their products)

 

[Lunarpancake]

Dell is the only company I know of that still includes OS Disks with their pc's


Note: I only buy business machines, so it may be a business only convenience.

 

[FerchogtX]

Dell is the only company I know of that still includes OS Disks with their pc's


Note: I only buy business machines, so it may be a business only convenience.

How good is Dell in terms of service, machines and all stuff? Here in Mexico I had bad experiences (felt and seen) but maybe is just here...

See ya!!!

 

[pparks1]

My experience with Dell has always been very positive. Both business accounts as well as personal purchases. Every company I have worked for has been a dell shop as far as desktops and laptops go. I've supported thousands of machines and Dell has been very solid.

 

[MacGyvr]

I have had to buy windows7 (at least I'll have the original OS disk) and will reinstall with 32 bit.
Cheers
Deb

This is simply not true. You didn't have to buy a copy of Windows 7. The computer manufacturer will send you recovery disks for a nominal fee, usually between $15 and $30.

 

[Dzomlija]

I have had to buy windows7 (at least I'll have the original OS disk) and will reinstall with 32 bit.
Cheers
Deb

This is simply not true. You didn't have to buy a copy of Windows 7. The computer manufacturer will send you recovery disks for a nominal fee, usually between $15 and $30.

True, but buying a Windows 7 disk instead of getting recover disks from the manufacturer does have the advantage of being able to install windows without all the bloatware usually included in recover disks...

 

[whs]

I have had to buy windows7 (at least I'll have the original OS disk) and will reinstall with 32 bit.
Cheers
Deb

This is simply not true. You didn't have to buy a copy of Windows 7. The computer manufacturer will send you recovery disks for a nominal fee, usually between $15 and $30.

True, but buying a Windows 7 disk instead of getting recover disks from the manufacturer does have the advantage of being able to install windows without all the bloatware usually included in recover disks...

Now there is a cheaper solution to that problem - use vLite Download vLite For Windows 7