RAM Performance

[seekermeister]

Okay, but one would have to have XMP RAM to be able to use it automatically or manually...mine is not. I asked about that when deciding which RAM to buy, and was told to ignore it, because it only pertained to Intel.

 

[seekermeister]

As far as I am aware,there is no way to change anything in the CPU. The only changes have to be done in bios. With mine, I had to first set the memory to manual, it then allowed me to set timings. I had to set the voltage the increase the FSB to get it to rated speed. Then I had to raise the CPU NB to stabilize the settings.

So doing that can only be done by guess and by gosh?

 

[essenbe]

My ram did have XMP profiles. It is, for the most part an Intel thing. But, it can be set on AMD boards the way I explained. Wit Intel you can just enable XMP profiles, with AMD you have to set the values manually and increase the FSB. With AMD the memory controller is on the CPU and it will not set it any higher than 1333 9-9-9-24. The only advantage I am told, is that you can run the ram at a lower frequency but tighten up the timings. I am personally not convinced that the frequency makes a great deal of difference. Dave76 is the resident expert on memory and timings.
See if this will help. It is from the g skill forum about AMD boards and DDR3-1600 ram

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[seekermeister]

I noticed that the author of that attachment, said that it doesn't really matter which brand of motherboard is involved...do you agree with that?

 

[essenbe]

I noticed that the author of that attachment, said that it doesn't really matter which brand of motherboard is involved...do you agree with that?

Yes. The only real differences is that some have different options in bios than others, but they are all constrained by the CPU memory controller and all work basically the same.

 

[sygnus21]

Okay, but one would have to have XMP RAM to be able to use it automatically or manually...mine is not. I asked about that when deciding which RAM to buy, and was told to ignore it, because it only pertained to Intel.

No true. XMP just tells the BIOS that it can run at it's listed spec automatically if the the BIOS can read the XMP profile. If not, just set the memory manually.

Example: I have Corsair's Dominator memory which does have an XMP profile to set the memory automatically at 1600MHz, 8-8-8-20 @ 1.65 volts. However my motherboard will automatically set the memory at 1066MHz @ 1.5 volts if I don't enable XMP in the BIOS (my MB allows this), or.... the motherboard didn't have an XMP option.

In this case I can either enable XMP in the BIOS, or manually set the memory to it's rated specs. For me, I set it manually, even though I could use the profile.

BTW if I wanted to overclock the RAM I would override the XMP profile and allow the RAM to be overclocked, whether manually or automatically.

Anyway whether the RAM/motherboard has XMP or not, you can still manually adjust the RAM - unless the motherboard itself doesn't allow for it.

 

[pparks1]

No I have a 890FX Deluxe 4, therefore it is an 890 chipset, not 990. You speak of OCing, but it's not OCing just to set the RAM to run the way that it supposed to.

The RAM is rated to run up to 1600Mhz. This doesn't mean that by default, when plugged in, that it's going to run at 1600Mhz. The default setting for a 1090T is 1333Mhz. If you wan to run faster than 1333, technically it's considered an overclock.

It seems pretty common that people tend to purchase "high performance" RAM, but don't realize that without adjustments, tweaks and testing...it simply isn't going to run at those speeds. And getting it to run at those speeds, can be troublesome as all of the changes required can cause system instability. Even in a situation where you don't have XMP support, setting your specs manually may require voltage tweeks and could cause additional north bridge stress resulting in system instability. (note: I'm not saying that you were NOT aware of this, it's just a blanket statement of generalities from many people that I deal with).


The advantages of having a 1090T RAM and DDR3 1600Mhz RAM is that you have additional headroom available if and when you decide to try to overclock. So, instead of being at 1333Mhz, you can raise up another 267Mhz before your RAM will be at full speed.

My general opinion is that you are better off with tighter timings and a lower clock speed, than looser timings and a higher clock speed. And from what I have seen on the forums, the performance difference between 1333Mhz and 1600Mhz is often around the 2% mark. So, if doing a 3 hour encode, that's approximately a 216 second savings or 3.5 minutes. Over the course of 3 hours, that may not be enough time savings to justify the investment of time and effort to get there. But that's up the individual user to decide.

I just had this very same discussion with a coworker this past week regarding his new build. He went with a Core i5-2500K, and opted for G.Skill DDR3 2133Mhz RAM. I suggested going with 1600Mhz and tighter timings. I think his 2133 RAM is 11-11-11-30. His parts have mostly arrived, so I should know before too long how well this 2133Mhz RAM is going to run at 2133Mhz speeds on his board.

 

[sygnus21]

With today's systems 1600MHz is nothing and hurts nothing. I can enable my XMP settings and it won't overclock my CPU when the RAM is running at 1600MHz. And yes, by definition, 1600MHz is considered overclocked by JDEC specifications.

Anyway I will agree that there will be voltage adjustments - it has to be since the higher speed requires a bump in RAM voltage, which to RAM is designed to take. However I've also found that enabling XMP on my MB also slightly increases other voltages - CPU Vcore and QPI/Vtt voltages (1366 chipsets with an i7-900 CPU).

This is why I, and most other users, use manual settings since this allows us to just set the RAM speed, timings, and Voltage only, without tweaking/overclocking other items/settings, including the CPU.

Again this is in reference to an Intel 1366 chipset system. I can't or won't say the same is true for AMD.

My point is the above statement isn't always true, though he does have some points.

 

[essenbe]

He does have some points. But, with my 1155 board, I enabled XMP profile, set to auto to set timings according to spd, and set speed at the rated 1866. No voltage increase requirev. Dram voltage is 1.5.

 

[sygnus21]

He does have some points. But, with my 1155 board, I enabled XMP profile, set to auto to set timings according to spd, and set speed at the rated 1866. No voltage increase requirev. Dram voltage is 1.5.

You have an 1155 chipset, I have a 1366 chipset - they have different memory requirements. Also the memory may have different voltage requirements as well.

Again, there is no cut and dry case. All have valid points, which I acknowledge.

And the purpose of the XMP profile is to set the memory to it's designed settings automatically - speed, timings, voltage. There's no need to set anything, other then enabling XMP in the BIOS.

If the BIOS doesn't support XMP, you can't use the profile built into the memory, and thus would have to set the memory specs manually.

How To Enable XMP Performance Profiles « Corsair® Blog

 

[pparks1]

With today's systems 1600MHz is nothing and hurts nothing.

In most cases is true, but it does take a little trial and effort.

I can enable my XMP settings and it won't overclock my CPU when the RAM is running at 1600MHz.

Correct

And yes, by definition, 1600MHz is considered overclocked by JDEC specifications.

That was the point that I was trying to make. While you aren't "making your CPU faster" and living under the typical usage of the word "overclock", it's still considered an overclock.

And I'm not trying to talk anybody out of putting forth the effort, but sometimes at the end of the day us enthusiasts will spend a boatload of time reading, tinkering and benchmarking and will end up with nothing much in terms of "real world" performance gains for all of our efforts. You always need to consider the effort as it relates to the result. If it takes you 35 hours of time and effort to eek out 1% more improvement and that only buys you 3 minutes of actual productivity gains a day...it would take you (35 hours x 60 minutes per hour = 2100 minutes divided by 3 minutes a day = ) 700 days to earn back the time spent. But on the flip side, for most of us, computers are a hobby and it's time we enjoy when we tinker. So, it's no different than watching a movie or a sporting event.

 

[sygnus21]

I can, and do, agree with you

 

[essenbe]

I can, and do, agree with you

 

[seekermeister]

I appreciate the inputs of the last several posts, but one factor remains that throws a monkey wrench into the works...that being that with the few changes that I have already made in the BIOS to the RAM settings (Memory Clock and CAS), they are being ignored and are running at different values, and that both sticks are not running at the same specs, plus the bandwidth is running at a value that is even lower than 1333 (1066). If this was not true, then it would be much easier to make changes and then check the results.

 

[sygnus21]

...that being that with the few changes that I have already made in the BIOS to the RAM settings (Memory Clock and CAS), they are being ignored and are running at different values,

Sorry but you have something weird going on. Again I would check with the Asrock forum I suggested earlier. I know you said you visited an AMD Fourm, but did you check out the motherboard section? That's where your issue lies, especially since your BIOS settings aren't sticking.

The other issue could be a RAM problem in that you have mixed RAM???

and that both sticks are not running at the same specs, plus the bandwidth is running at a value that is even lower than 1333 (1066). If this was not true, then it would be much easier to make changes and then check the results.

 

[seekermeister]

...that being that with the few changes that I have already made in the BIOS to the RAM settings (Memory Clock and CAS), they are being ignored and are running at different values,

Sorry but you have something weird going on. Again I would check with the Asrock forum I suggested earlier. I know you said you visited an AMD Fourm, but did you check out the motherboard section? That's where your issue lies, especially since your BIOS settings aren't sticking.

The other issue could be a RAM problem in that you have mixed RAM???

and that both sticks are not running at the same specs, plus the bandwidth is running at a value that is even lower than 1333 (1066). If this was not true, then it would be much easier to make changes and then check the results.

There is nothing mixed about the RAM, both sticks are of the same brand and version, which came packaged together as a set. Since posting on the AMD forum, I have only received one response, which was no where near on target, and there have only been 32 views, so if I do get an answer there, it will probably take quite some time.

I have not yet posted on the ASRock forum, because I don't think that it is an ASRock problem, nor do I think that it is a Patriot problem. Yet, I probably will, because I will take an answer wherever I can get it.

 

[pparks1]

Seekermeister;

i think this picture you posted earlier is telling the proper story;

The memory tab is what the computer is actually running the RAM at based on what is set in the BIOS. The SPD tab reads the EEPROM of the RAM chip itself and provides timings and such that the RAM would run under in normal conditions.

According to the memory tab, you are running 670Mhz or so...which when doubled is about 1333Mhz...and your timings are right.

Now, do you feel this screenshot is incorrect as you have set 800Mhz in the BIOS?

 

[seekermeister]

That is only the Memory tab, what about the SPD tab? It shows the memory running at PC-8500F (533), and if I'm not wrong, JEDEC #1 and JEDEC #2 are the value of each of the two sticks of RAM, which are not running at the same values, and neither are showing the voltage as set in the BIOS (1.7v)

 

[essenbe]

The spd tab shows what speeds and combinations they can be set to run at based on the readngs from the ram. The memory tab shows what they are actually running at.

 

[pparks1]

The SPD tab does not show what your memory is actually running at. It's a preconfigured list of settings that the manufacturer has included which explain settings that your RAM "COULD" run at. It should not be read as to what it's potential IS, or what it's currently running at.

JEDEC #1 and JEDEC #2 are two different example configurations...they are not representing each of your modules. Take 1 of your modules out and run with 1, and you will still see both entries there.

I'm running a Core 2 Duo box right beside me. I have 4 sticks of Corsair XMS2 800Mhz DDR2 RAM installed. I have 2 tabs on SPD, one said 270Mhz and the other says 400Mhz.

But my memory tab says, 400Mhz (doubled is 800Mhz), and I'm a 1:1 ratio with FSB to DRAM. My times are 5-5-5-18. My ram is set to run at 800Mhz in the BIOS and the memory tab shows me exactly where I am.