What is the best free defragger?

[Scotteq]

Thank you for your example - But XP is not Win 7, so I'm a little confused why you chose that. I'm simply pointing out that the Windows Engineering Team are saying that for Win 7 the best practice is to do nothing.

Among the other changes under the hood in Windows 7 are the following:

Defragmentation in Windows 7 is more comprehensive – many files that could not be re-located in Windows Vista or earlier versions can now be optimally re-placed. In particular, a lot of work was done to make various NTFS metadata files movable. This ability to relocate NTFS metadata files also benefits volume shrink, since it enables the system to pack all files and file system metadata more closely and free up space “at the end” which can be reclaimed if required.


If solid-state media is detected, Windows disables defragmentation on that disk. The physical nature of solid-state media is such that defragmentation is not needed and in fact, could decrease overall media lifetime in certain cases.


By default, defragmentation is disabled on Windows Server 2008 R2 (the Windows 7 server release). Given the variability of server workloads, defragmentation should be enabled and scheduled only by an administrator who understands those workloads.


Best practices for using defragmentation in Windows 7 are simple – you do not need to do anything! Defragmentation is scheduled to automatically run periodically and in the background with minimal impact to foreground activity. This ensures that data on your hard disk drives is efficiently placed so the system can provide optimal responsiveness...

 

[Victek]

Thank you for your example - But XP is not Win 7, so I'm a little confused why you chose that. I'm simply pointing out that the Windows Engineering Team are saying that for Win 7 the best practice is to do nothing.

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I used the defragger in XP as an example because it is the last Windows version that included a disk map. I then talked about why in my experience having a disk map is useful. What was unclear?

 

[Scotteq]

That part is clear - A map is nice to have and nice to look at. What I'm not clear on is why you're using XP as an example in a Win7 conversation since Win 7 doesn't work like that.

The Windows Engineering team are saying they've redesigned how defragmentation operates in Windows 7, and that there is no need for any action because Win 7 Defrags itself in the background on an ongoing basis. And I provided a link to their article explaining what they've done as a reference. Based on this, my own conclusion is that there is no need in a Windows 7 environment for a standalone defragmentation product at all.

 

[Victek]

That part is clear - A map is nice to have and nice to look at. What I'm not clear on is why you're using XP as an example in a Win7 conversation since Win 7 doesn't work like that.

The Windows Engineering team are saying they've redesigned how defragmentation operates in Windows 7, and that there is no need for any action because Win 7 Defrags itself in the background on an ongoing basis. And I provided a link to their article explaining what they've done as a reference. Based on this, my own conclusion is that there is no need in a Windows 7 environment for a standalone defragmentation product at all.

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I understand that what the Windows Engineering Team is saying is good enough for you. I still prefer to use a defragger where I can see for myself how the data is being arranged. Hopefully the Win7 defragger is as good as they say, but how can it can it be assessed?

 

[I2aMpAnT]

My favorite derangement is Command Prompt > Defrag c: -w

Gonna have to agree with that one.

 

[Dinesh]

I use defraggler.

 

[johngalt]

Native Win 7 defragmentation app. 'Nuff sed.

 

[K3VL4R]

I use defraggler.

I used to use defraggler now I use Smartdefrag it is the fastest one I have seen so far.

 

[Chappy]

Windows defrag works perfectly well, and don't fall for the Registry defrag smoke & mirrors show, the registry doesn't need to be defragged just as it doesn't need some fancy cleaner either. The registry is stored in a few files which add up to less than 60MB in most cases (without logs), it's loaded in less than a second, and orphaned keys are simply ignored and do not cause system slowdowns. Many people make allot of $$$ on things they've convinced users that they need, when in fact it's just another snake oil sale.

The reason another defrag utility will show something different is because it uses a different algorithm than windows (or whatever utility) does. Windows uses a quality defrag utility they purchased a few years ago and at that time it was one of the highest ranked and recommended ones, just let it do it's job and forget about it.

 

[johngalt]

Yup - they are as good as memory optimizers and snake oil.

 

[Chappy]

Yup - they are as good as memory optimizers and snake oil.

LOL John....we've seen this show before eh..

People found that they could pretty much sell most users ANYTHING that sounded techie and promised improved performance back in the olden days, and it has never changed since
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We actually came across a "Registry Optimizer" app back in 02 (when I still did security work) that was found to be written by a known spyware group, so we tested it both for spyware and monitored all it's activities. The thing looked like it was buzzing thru 1000's of reg keys and cleaning up, defragging, and generally "optimizing" a users registry. All that was actually taking place was a neat little show of random key names whizzing past too fast to read, and a colorful progress bar wrapped in a cool GUI...and that was all!!
Absolutely NOTHING was done, and in fact it didn't even install a nasty either, but they were asking $19.95 to unlock the app and apply the changes (we had unlocked it by another method.. ).
They even had a user forum where people were "astounded" at how well their systems ran after using the app, when nothing was done by it except to lighten their wallets of $20. They lasted exactly 6 months and disappeared with a pile of cash.

Talk about the "Placebo Effect" eh
LOL!!

Now I'm sure most of these things actually DO something, but it sure as heck ain't making systems any faster, just a waste of money & time IMO.

 

[Charles Kane]

Chappy, that is a great story.
Doubly funny because what that reg defragger did was certainly much safer and more reliable than those that actually do something!

 

[Victek]

LOL John....we've seen this show before eh..

People found that they could pretty much sell most users ANYTHING that sounded techie and promised improved performance back in the olden days, and it has never changed since
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We actually came across a "Registry Optimizer" app back in 02 (when I still did security work) that was found to be written by a known spyware group, so we tested it both for spyware and monitored all it's activities. The thing looked like it was buzzing thru 1000's of reg keys and cleaning up, defragging, and generally "optimizing" a users registry. All that was actually taking place was a neat little show of random key names whizzing past too fast to read, and a colorful progress bar wrapped in a cool GUI...and that was all!!
Absolutely NOTHING was done, and in fact it didn't even install a nasty either, but they were asking $19.95 to unlock the app and apply the changes (we had unlocked it by another method.. ).
They even had a user forum where people were "astounded" at how well their systems ran after using the app, when nothing was done by it except to lighten their wallets of $20. They lasted exactly 6 months and disappeared with a pile of cash.

Talk about the "Placebo Effect" eh
LOL!!

Now I'm sure most of these things actually DO something, but it sure as heck ain't making systems any faster, just a waste of money & time IMO.

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That's a funny story, but to be fair I feel you need to distinguish between the different utilities you lumped together. Your example is a product that's a blatant scam similar to "scareware". There are many products that do what they say. The question then is are they useful. RAM defraggers are just smoke and mirrors IMHO. I've never found registry cleaners to be either beneficial or completely safe either, however I do believe registry defraggers are useful on an occasional basis. They do not provide any noticeable improvement in performance, but they do free up disk space and some are freeware. Hard disk defraggers are another matter. In my experience thoroughly defragging a hard drive can significantly improve performance if it hasn't been done for a long time. I regularly work on PC's in the field where the users don't know about maintenance, and their hard drives have not been cleaned up and defragged for years, so when it's done you really notice the difference. Whether or not there's any benefit in buying a third party disk defragger is debatable, but hopefully we can agree that the task itself is valid.

 

[Charles Kane]

registry defraggers are useful on an occasional basis. They do not provide any noticeable improvement in performance, but they do free up disk space

By no consideration does a registry defragger "free up disk space".
A Registry Cleaner is like sweeping one parking space in a car park the size of Nevada and imo therefore useless and risky.

What a registry defragger does is pretty mumbo jumbo really. All it can do is ensure that the hive is contiguous - that is that all parts that make up the registry hive are physically next to each other on the drive. There is no freeing up of disk space involved at all.

 

[Victek]

By no consideration does a registry defragger "free up disk space".
A Registry Cleaner is like sweeping one parking space in a car park the size of Nevada and imo therefore useless and risky.

What a registry defragger does is pretty mumbo jumbo really. All it can do is ensure that the hive is contiguous - that is that all parts that make up the registry hive are physically next to each other on the drive. There is no freeing up of disk space involved at all.

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First of all we agree about registry cleaners so let's move on. Regarding registry defraggers I haven't checked directly to confirm it's true, but they (for instance Quicksys regdefrag) claim to remove free space in the registry. Apparently the registry does not adjust itself down in size automatically when programs are uninstalled. Reg defraggers usually show a map detailing the free space and stating the size difference after compressing the registry. Is this not true?

 

[KazeNoKoe23]

Defraggler for me!

 

[messjess]

JKDefrag, CCleaner and i just downloaded Defraggler. Ill probably uninstall Defraggler because i just like the convenience of clicking once and JKDefrag goes at it lol.

 

[Charles Kane]

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claim to remove free space in the registry. Apparently the registry does not adjust itself down in size automatically when programs are uninstalled. Reg defraggers usually show a map detailing the free space and stating the size difference after compressing the registry. Is this not true?

In all honesty - i don't know. But it just doesn't make sense to me. Remove a few hundred even thousand lines of text from a gigantic database (actually 5), what "space saving" are we on about. Hardly any. Many files we use change all the time, so what - it's a computer - it deals with that stuff in an instant.

Any way even if it does "compress" have you really noticed any difference. Again I don't see any definitive (or "any" actually) research which indicates any benefits. MS are quiet on the issue but if the registry screwed with their system maybe you'd expect them to provide something like this.

Mark Russinovich (SysInternals, TechNet) talks about it. But he's a bit inconclusive. He basically says that for troubleshooting a Registry Cleaner may be useful. That surprised me a bit - but he was particularly interested on the effect of uninstallation on different users, and had an example where a registry remnant could cause an issue. Generally Registry Defrag hardly gets a mention by anyone "in the know' and when it does its all pretty negative.

I still think the benefits are entirely unproven and illusory and create a bigger risk than its worth. I'm sure that Win7 users should stay right away, there are just too many reports of busted systems.

If you must, get a good defragger which will do a pass at boot (and therefore defrag the registry). JkDefrag is utterly reliable (it uses the Windows API) and the JkDefragGUI version easily allows Defrag on boot. Its free, no install.

 

[Victek]

Here's a real world scenario where a defragger with a disk map and boot time defrag capability was necessary:

I decided to install/dual boot Windows 7 on my Vista laptop, but when I tried to shrink the primary partition it would only allow a few hundred megabytes. I figured there must be data at the end of the partition preventing it from being re-sized, so I tried Disk Cleanup and deleted everything including shadow copies/restore points, but this didn't help. Then I loaded Perfectdisk to analyzed the drive and sure enough there was "locked" data at the end of the partition. I did a few repetitions of boot-time defrag and defragging in the GUI. Afterward there was still one file left that wouldn't move, but Perfectdisk identified it and Google produced instructions for deleting it. Then I was able to shrink the partition sufficiently to install Windows 7. This is the only way to get the job done AFAICT.

 

[Chappy]

That's a funny story, but to be fair I feel you need to distinguish between the different utilities you lumped together.

Actually, I think I made that quite clear in my first post, registry defragger's and compacters do nothing of any real value, except to the person who sold it to the poor user. The story was just emphasis.

Remove a few hundred even thousand lines of text from a gigantic database (actually 5),

Gigantic??
Most of them are sized in KB's, 2 are in MB's and are under 30...what's "Gigantic" about that? I do agree with all of your post except that choice of word there Kane..LOL! You're absolutely right tho, the DB loads in less than a second, so what savings can be had...1/10,000 of a second...OMFG...I'm missing out!!


Yah, Mark does mention a bit about it sometimes, there is a VERY rare occasion where a key in a sensitive location "could" pose a problem, but a reg defrag or cleaner app also isn't the way to go about fixing that either.
Disk defrag is another story since we're talking many 100's of GB's these days, but Windows defrag utility is a top performer, works in the background silently, and is done without any user intervention. What more is needed?

And besides, it's Windows OS that uses the disk space, who knows more about how to set it up to the OS's best advantage than Windows defrag...right? 3rd party apps use different algorithms and while their GUI might show a pretty picture of how it's done it's job, is it actually done to the best advantage of the OS?
Me thinks not