Difficult Question

[giantpc]

Hi,

I've been searching for a software program that can view the data on my second (and encrypted) HD from outside of Windows (Boot CD, DOS, Linux, anything) or even while booted into Windows. The purpose for viewing the data is because I would like to see how well I have encrypted my second HD. If my second HD is encrypted as well as I think it is, then I should not be able to see folder names or file names when I view the data on the HD from a utility either in or outside of Windows.

In other words, what utility can I use to view data on an encrypted HD. It doesn't matter if the data shows as "dfusdf9set8w4twuiefasidft4" (In an encrypted format), I still would like to view the data either way to see how well the data on the second HD is encrypted.

None of the popular utilities that I have tried can accomplish this very simple task. Does anybody know of a utility that can?

(I'm trying to figure out how well the "Encrypted Installation" of a Ubuntu Linux OS works. I don't think that the data shows up as encrypted if you use a utility to view the data, even when the system isn't mounted. The answer to this question is driving me mad, and I'm not going to know for sure how well the encrypted installation works until I actually view the data. I know this is a Windows 7 Forum (I use Windows 7 as my primary OS) but the program is probably a popular Windows or DOS program, so I came here to ask.)

 

[mickey megabyte]

hi giantpc, and welcome to sevenforums,

you mentioned linux - have you tried booting a linux live cd to inspect your drive with?

there are so many distros...a quick downloading one would be puppy or slitaz, which is only 30 megs and should download before you know it!

 

[giantpc]

Well from what I have tried so far you can only view the data if the HD is mounted. Since I used the "Encrypted Installation" on my linux OS, the Linux live CD won't be able to mount the HD unless I enter the password to decrypt the encrypted installation, and that defeats the whole purpose. I'm looking for something that will view the actual data on my encrypted linux installation, even if the HD isn't mounted.

Can the utilities you suggested do this, or do they have to mount the encrypted HD first?

I didn't actually encrypt any files. I just used the Ubuntu "Encrypted Installation" and am now trying to see how well the system is encrypted by viewing the HD data (without mounting the HD from a linux cd or linux utility).

 

[mickey megabyte]

hmm, i think i misunderstood your original question - i thought you had encrypted a windows drive and wanted to see if it could be read by another os.

sorry, i don't think i can help further, but stick around, there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum - one of them will see this thread and respond.

 

[giantpc]

I used some windows utilities in the past that allowed me to view raw data on the HD from...I think DOS, but that utility doesn't even recognize my second HD because the whole HD was formatted using the Ubuntu Encrypted Installation. I was hoping to find a Windows utility because Windows is my primary OS...and because then I wouldn't have to make a boot CD.

 

[Kari]

Let me just check that I have understood you correctly:

Your Ubuntu installation is encrypted, and you have a problem now because you can not see the encrypted installation without decrypting it? If you can brake the encryption, decrypt it, see the encrypted files, you are happy? If the encryption works as it should, you are unhappy?

I'm too old...

Kari

 

[giantpc]

Let me just check that I have understood you correctly:

Your Ubuntu installation is encrypted, and you have a problem now because you can not see the encrypted installation without decrypting it? If you can brake the encryption, decrypt it, see the encrypted files, you are happy? If the encryption works as it should, you are unhappy?

I'm too old...

Kari

Simplified: I used the Ubuntu 'Encrypted Installation" on my second HD. I would now like to view the data on that HD to make sure the data is encrypted as well as to see how well and how much data is encrypted. I can't find a utility that does this.

 

[mickey megabyte]

not sure if it's what you want, but just found this software - not sure if it's any good, or if it works in 7, apparently it works with vista...

 

[Kari]

Simplified: I used the Ubuntu 'Encrypted Installation" on my second HD. I would now like to view the data on that HD to make sure the data is encrypted as well as to see how well and how much data is encrypted. I can't find a utility that does this.

Doesn't this mean your encryption works?

 

[mickey megabyte]

Kari, i think he wants to see the actual scrambled data.

 

[Kari]

Mickey, if he can see the data only when decrypted with encryption password, doesn't that mean the encryption works? The whole point of installing Linux to encrypted drive is that you can see the contents of that drive ONLY when drive is mounted and passphrase given!

 

[mickey megabyte]

well i can't speak for the OP, but what i gather is that he wants to see what the encrypted data looks like.

original non-encrypted stuff = information

scrambled encrypted stuff = data

...

In other words, what utility can I use to view data on an encrypted HD. It doesn't matter if the data shows as "dfusdf9set8w4twuiefasidft4" (In an encrypted format), I still would like to view the data either way to see how well the data on the second HD is encrypted.

...

although i'm not 100% sure.

 

[giantpc]

Simplified: I used the Ubuntu 'Encrypted Installation" on my second HD. I would now like to view the data on that HD to make sure the data is encrypted as well as to see how well and how much data is encrypted. I can't find a utility that does this.

Doesn't this mean your encryption works?

lol, well I'm not sure. I've yet to find a utility that will let me view the data in its encrypted form ie "efhdfj4&$@7r3gfjd" but I imagine that there are some folders, some files, some data that isn't fully encrypted and I'm aiming to find out for sure.

 

[Kari]

If you are talking about encrypted LVM file system, rest assured your data is encrypted. It can be seen / searched only when the drive in question is mounted and encryption passphrase is given. Other than that, at least as far as I know, you have no way to get to that data.

 

[mickey megabyte]

well, the fact that it's so difficult to find such a utility seems to imply that your data will be safe from prying eyes.

i guess it depends how sensitive your data is, how much it's at risk of being snooped, and how much you've got to lose if someone does manage to unscramble it.

 

[giantpc]

not sure if it's what you want, but just found this software - not sure if it's any good, or if it works in 7, apparently it works with vista...

This utility only supports NTFS and FAT systems so I'm guessing it is just like the DOS utility that reported the second HD as unavailable (It wouldn't recognize the HD data).

 

[giantpc]

If you are talking about encrypted LVM file system, rest assured your data is encrypted. It can be seen / searched only when the drive in question is mounted and encryption passphrase is given. Other than that, at least as far as I know, you have no way to get to that data.

That was my first thought...but doesn't it seem odd how quickly the system mounts, and how all of the new files and folders never get an alert that they have been encrypted? During my usage of the system, I never see any of the NEW files that I add or create encrypted -- how do I know that they were encrypted somewhere in the background?

I don't even think that new files, or files added to the home directory, are encrypted.

My home directory is set to "Encrypted", but how do I know that each time I put new files into my "home directory" that it is encrypted? I don't, unless I view the data myself to make sure.

If I move in with a roommate next year and I am away, how do I know that he can't just copy my HD while I'm gone and then put it into his PC, run a utility, and view all of the half-encrypted or "left unencrypted" files?

It just doesn't feel like it is all encrypted. I run an "Encrypted Installation" one single time, and all the data on my system is supposed to be encrypted after each reboot? I don't buy it.

I bet that when I finally do find a utility to view the data that the only thing that shows up as encrypted is the system files, if that, and all oof my new data added after the ubuntu installation will be sitting there unencryped.

 

[giantpc]

I have discovered that the newly added files ARE encrypted, but only at unmount.

I guess I'll just have to take their word for it, because I can't find a utility to view the encrypted data in its encrypted form.

That means I'll never really know for sure because there is no way to test it.

Ah well.

 

[niemiro]

I have discovered that the newly added files ARE encrypted, but only at unmount.

I guess I'll just have to take their word for it, because I can't find a utility to view the encrypted data in its encrypted form.

That means I'll never really know for sure because there is no way to test it.

Ah well.

Hello!

I understand what you want to do: see the notepad equivalent of the scrambled text.

However, I can assure you that the text is scrambled, because Linux can't read it.

However, neither you or I could look at scrambled text and recognise what encryption there is on it, and whether or not it is secure. Manually looking at the text will not reveal much at all, save for the fact that it might lead you into a false sense of security. For example, WEP encrypts the data, and would look scrambled to you, but in fact is not secure at all.

There are very many forms of encryption. In my opinion, it is far better to look at the statistics of the encryption algorithm used, and see how secure it is.

Now, cracking a zip file, for example, is very different to cracking a Windows Volume. With most encyption algorithms for .zip files, it would take a very long time to brute force the password, or other cracking methods. However, if you know some of the plain text within the .zip file, the time it takes to crack reduces massively.

However, on a Windows Volume, vast tracks of the Windows files could be guessed --> a lot of plain text data. Therefore, encryption has to be very careful around this.

How did you encrypt this drive?

Richard

 

[niemiro]

Hello again!

To give you some idea, I just encrypted my above post using RSA and DES:

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
FajRrHaPMYwxzRL97n9lct4T7N3GfNEpqutxhXzjELbKinkxNtpXtm19yoCimaVUkUITqJcez1b7pxvEufvycsBS7gHmL9s+HaLVDhB4Mln07aFBpDduMJ6AFctDLpuNC5FaEXhmK6f7eXGyb71qoaWus1fwb4NzJ7WMpSXFLeQ=

Richard

EDIT: The top line is the post encrypted in DES, and the bottom line is the DES key encrypted with RSA.

EDIT 2: And here it is using AES-256 and the insecure password of "test":

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

not that you would know that the password is insecure, and the weakest link, just by looking at the scrambled text.