Noobish Question about Hardware Parts

[yaco78]

Hi guys,

I'm looking to get a new desktop PC relatively soon. I'm just wondering about these Intel Core i7 processors and the Intel Core 2 Quad processors. What exactly is the difference between these? Which do you think Windows 7 will work more efficiently with? In terms of RAM, how significant is the difference between DDR2 and DDR3? For example, am I better off with say 8GB of DDR2 or 4gb of DDR3? And will a NVIDIA or ATI graphics card with 1gb of memory be sufficient for maxing out the graphics on most modern games? I really want a top of the line computer, but I don't want to spend extra money on better hardware if it will only give me marginal benefits compared to the next best thing. Feedback appreciated!

 

[Antman]

I don't want to spend extra money on better hardware if it will only give me marginal benefits compared to the next best thing.

How long do you plan to own this system? You see, you are really asking if you should buy a current generation motherboard (I7, DDR3) or a previous generation board. The i7 @ 266 with 4GB of DDR3 will make you happy with plenty of room for RAM expansion. On a board with 6 RAM slots, I would get 3 2GB sticks of RAM.

Your 1GB video card will require the system to allocate 1GB of system RAM for the video - this is not the same as shared memory.

The system that I have barely outlined will not cost very much, as long as you do the build yourself. Building a pC is a relatively simple process, providing that you do your homework and purchase compatible components.

Don't skimp on the power supply.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

i7 is the fastest CPU available and migth be over-board unless money is not an issue. 775 socket is old and won't get newer CPUs anymore. Bad for upgrades. AMD AM3 platform is relatively inexpensive and will be around for a while. Not as powerful as i7, but definitely enough and likely will get more powerful CPUs for later upgrades.
So i7 if you really need the power and have the $, AM3 if not.

RAM: go with DDR3. Barely any price difference to DDR2. 8 GB definitely, especially since you sound like playing newer games.

I don't know much about games, but besides memory the GPU itself is important for graphic cards.

hope this helps

 

[yaco78]

I would probably plan on using the computer for 4-5 years, or until I deem it obsolete compared to the latest technology to the point where it would be financially reasonable to replace. Although I wouldn't mind upgrading it by adding more RAM or getting a new graphics card or hard drive down the line in order to keep it more current, which is why I'm thinking the i7 would be more suitable for long-run sustainability. Anyways, here was a computer I put together pretty quickly at HP's website, and I thought it seemed like a fair price (opinions?)

HP Pavilion Elite e9150t customizable Desktop PC
NY810AV#ABA

• Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
• Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-920 processor (2.66GHz, 1MB L2 + 8MB shared L3 cache with QPI Technology)
• 8GB DDR3-1066MHz SDRAM [4 DIMMs]
• 640GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
• 1GB ATI Radeon HD 4650 [DVI, HDMI, VGA]
• LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
• Integrated 10/100/1000 (Gigabit) Ethernet, No wireless LAN
• 15-in-1 memory card reader, 1 USB, 1394, audio
• No TV Tuner w/remote control
• Integrated 7.1 channel sound with front audio ports
• No speakers
• HP multimedia keyboard and HP optical mouse
• Microsoft(R) Works 9.0
• Norton Internet Security(TM) 2009 - 15 month
• HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope

Total: $979.99

I'm not saying I'm going to get it, but that looks like one option as of right now. Can anyone verify if this is a good buy? I'd be very interested in constructing a machine from the ground up, as you mentioned, but I really don't know too much about hardware as you can probably already tell. Do you have any websites that you recommend I look at for making my own PC with good prices?

http://javascript<b></b>:_tabBar.moveToTab('tab0','m_c_15','16');

 

[pparks1]

As far as upgrades go...I usually don't factor this into my decision too much. The reason is that the technology changes so fast and so do all the other parts that go into an upgrade.

For example, about 2 years ago friends bought Core 2 Duo's with the possibility of upgrading to Core 2 Quads down the road. However, now that they are thinking about upgrading, the Core 2 Quad isn't the best out there..it's the Core i7. And this requires a new motherboard with a new socket and new RAM (DDR3).

Personally, I feel that if you buy a Core i7 now hoping to potentially upgrade down the road, you might just find that the socket again for the CPU has changed and possibly the video card standard or the RAM standard...which means you are upgrading more computer parts.

In my experience, the difference between DDR3 and DDR2 isn't much. With DDR2 you can get lower latencies, which can offset the performance difference of the DDR3 RAM.

I just built a machine a few weeks ago, and went with an Intel Core 2 Quad...as I planned for the machine to be a "hackintosh" and the EFI-x module that I need wasn't compatible with the Core i7.

 

[Antman]

I shy away from labeled PCs. Too often, the mobo has been "de-engineered" or reduced in functionality in some manner. HP and the like sell whole systems, not upgrades. This is not universally true, but you do pay a premium for the name tag. The biggest "plus" in the HP offer is the bundled OS. Verify that you qualify for a free or reduced cost upgrade to Win7

Take the specs to a local computer shop and see what the total cost for the components would be. Often, a small shop will do the build for a nominal fee, maybe $75.

At HP, you get the HP warranty. At the shop, you will likely get 30-90 days plus the manufacturer's warranty on the components. An adage is - if it is going to fail, it will fail out of the box.

 

[Antman]

As far as upgrades go...I usually don't factor this into my decision too much. The reason is that the technology changes so fast and so do all the other parts that go into an upgrade.

For example, about 2 years ago friends bought Core 2 Duo's with the possibility of upgrading to Core 2 Quads down the road. However, now that they are thinking about upgrading, the Core 2 Quad isn't the best out there..it's the Core i7. And this requires a new motherboard with a new socket and new RAM (DDR3)...

So VERY true. My question re: how long do you plan to own it, is based on its potential resale value, not on its worthiness for an upgrade

 

[pparks1]

Gotcha. I don't ever resell my computers. I just take the newest one and make it mine and then upgrade everything else down the line. Usually, the computer that pops out the end becomes scrap or if it's got useful life left, it's donated to a good cause.

 

[yaco78]

Yeah I never resell computers either. I usually keep them around to serve as backups or just for the added convenience of being able to have extra computers around for friends or family to use if I'm on the main one. Anyways, does anyone have any recommendations for a good place to custom build a PC online? Or any specific stores?

 

[pparks1]

I get my stuff usually from Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more!. I've been very happy with their selection, prices and customer service. Let me know if you have any specific questions...I'd be more than happy to help you out.

 

[zigzag3143]

hardware

Gotcha. I don't ever resell my computers. I just take the newest one and make it mine and then upgrade everything else down the line. Usually, the computer that pops out the end becomes scrap or if it's got useful life left, it's donated to a good cause.

Its getting harder to donate. I have 4 P-IV's that I cant give away. I have tried schools, churches, salvation army, and friends and family.

Some ppl still have their original C-64's but I really would like to give these boxes another life.

Ken

 

[HerrKaLeun]

For i7 you would use the triple-channel, so either 6 GB or 12 GB. HP doesn't even know how to run an i7
Use the DDR3 1333 RAM. barely more expensive than the 1066 they offered. Of course, I'm talking about building it yourself.
The HP won't really be upgradeable. The Mobo will have all the RAM slots occupied, there won't be BIOS upgrades for future CPUs. No overclocking (this is a shame, since the i7 easily goes to 4 GHz). I think any of the brandname PCs (Dell etc.) is just the way you buy it, if you need more power they want you to buy a new one and castrate it accordingly. From that point it doesn't really matter which platform it is.
And the OS they give you often has all their spy-ware and advertisements built in and you are not eligible for upgrades to W8 or so.

 

[pparks1]

The HP won't really be upgradeable. The Mobo will have all the RAM slots occupied, there won't be BIOS upgrades for future CPUs. No overclocking (this is a shame, since the i7 easily goes to 4 GHz). I think any of the brandname PCs (Dell etc.) is just the way you buy it, if you need more power they want you to buy a new one and castrate it accordingly.

I've owned a number of Dell's in the past and they 1). Have never had all the RAM slots occupied....but I'm sure some prefabs do. 2). Have had BIOS upgrades from the mfg.

With regards to overclocking, they lock down the system because they offer a WARRANTY and cannot afford to cover warranty repairs for people who overclock and kill something or shorten it's life in the process.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

The Dell that we have at work often even only have one IDE slot and seem to have a non-standard power supply, so replacement is only with Dell. We have 3-year warranty and after 3 years we replace them since repair gets too expensive. Typically each computer loses one HDD or a mobo throughout the 3 years. Which really is annoying with new installation etc.
At home I have always OC'd (typically 25% above standard speed) and never had a single failure. And if I had a failure, I know I have replaceable components that I can find cheap parts for at newegg or so.

not sure who gets to pay the shipping cost when you send back the broken PC. Our IT Fedex them back and after 3 days I get a new one. 3 days without my own PC at work, + shipping cost... I'm sure I could have a huge bin of spare parts for that money lost and just live without a warranty In addition our IT doesn't create images of our HDDs so that I need to install everything new (the data are on the server with backup, but not the C-drive) I always joke that at home I have a more professional computer setup with RAID 1 and weekly image backup than at work where we have 1,500 PCs

I guess since the thread-starter doesn't want to build a PC himself, he probably won't repair it either. So a PC with a full 3-year warranty might be good and if it breaks after that he buys a new one. Not sure if a local dealer gives 3 years warranty (to save shipping expense and time).

I understand that HP and Dell limit the options. But besides limiting BIOS they also use the lowest speed components (s. DDR3 1066 in his quote), cheapest cases and fans with barely any cooling. I guess I'm just a PC builder guy and no argument could convince me to have my own PC bought in one piece. To each his own.

 

[pparks1]

The Dell that we have at work often even only have one IDE slot and seem to have a non-standard power supply, so replacement is only with Dell.

Shoot, my new Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R mobo has only 1 IDE slot on the mobo. As far as non-standard power supplies...I thought Dell got away from that. Do you guys happen to be using small form factor Dell"s??? If so, that explains the proprietary nature.

In addition our IT doesn't create images of our HDDs so that I need to install everything new (the data are on the server with backup, but not the C-drive) I always joke that at home I have a more professional computer setup with RAID 1 and weekly image backup than at work where we have 1,500 PCs

Wow, with 1500 machines that insanity to not have an image? Do they have any image whatsoever...or just not an image of the applications that you typically run.

I understand that HP and Dell limit the options. But besides limiting BIOS they also use the lowest speed components (s. DDR3 1066 in his quote), cheapest cases and fans with barely any cooling. I guess I'm just a PC builder guy and no argument could convince me to have my own PC bought in one piece. To each his own.

I've used Dell at work and have had 2 at home. I've never run into problems really with cooling in the cases. Sure, it's not as much as I have with my custom build...but then again the computers lasted for years. Certainly not trying to talk you out of building your own...I still build some of my own. I'm just not typically of the opinion that a prefab computer is always a terrible option. For some people, it's just what they need.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

I meant our Dells only have IDE, no SATA at all (at least 2 years ago). Obviulsy nowadays one IDE is standard. but at that time 2 IDE was standard since 1 IDE only supports 2 drives... I didn't look into one more recent one, but I'm sure they didn't get much more upgradeable.

Same for power supply, didn't lookinto a very new one, just 2 years ago.

All the data files are on the network and (hopefully) backed up. The C-drives only have windows and the installed software. It is quite a pain to install it new since by default I only get Office (like everybody else). All other software I either have on DVD to install (autoCAD etc.) or from IT per request (MS project, Visio etc). when the time comes and a HDD dies I kind of forget what I originally had and whne I need it i need to call them again to install it. Of course they keep the installation files somewhere out of my reach. I had requested to get images of my c-drive, but denied. they also locked the "restore" function. PCs dying is a common occurrence in our office.

 

[DJG]

For i7 you would use the triple-channel, so either 6 GB or 12 GB. ... Use the DDR3 1333 RAM. barely more expensive than the 1066 they offered.

+1!

Newegg loves me . They have some nice combo deals I took advantage of when I got my system: mobo + matched 12GB OCZ 1600 Gold memory, and Core i7 920 + big-a$$ air cooler ...

 

[Ballistyx]

Total: $979.99

What currency is this in?

I built my system now (specs) for

$754 (AUD Australian money)
$603.88 (USD United States money)

You may find its cheaper to built your rig

 

[Sope]

Hi Guys,
Sorry to hijack the thread (only slightly!)

I'm in a similar position to the OP, in that I'm interested in building my own gaming/multipurpose PC but have never done it before - I find it difficult to know where to start.

I don't want to needlessly spend silly money but also I'd like to be future proof regarding adding extra RAM, HDD's, graphics cards as future upgrades.

Can anyone recommend a couple of good websites as a starting point, that help with the choosing of suitable components, planning and maybe carrying out the build?

Cheers.

 

[pparks1]

Hi Guys,
Sorry to hijack the thread (only slightly!)

I think it's close enough to being on track. Plus, other newbies can come here and read what's being posted, so I'm sure it will help them out.

I'm in a similar position to the OP, in that I'm interested in building my own gaming/multipurpose PC but have never done it before - I find it difficult to know where to start.

Best starting place in my opinion is budget. How much do you have and are your willing to spend on the budget? Second place is how much stuff do you need? (for example, do you have a usable keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc).

I don't want to needlessly spend silly money but also I'd like to be future proof regarding adding extra RAM, HDD's, graphics cards as future upgrades.

My thought here is that future-proof is a terrible word and doesn't really apply to computers. The thing with upgrades is this...when you are ready to do an upgrade...by this point the CPU socket has changed which involves not only the purchase of a new CPU, but a new motherboard and most likely new RAM. So, I don't really recommend building something now with the intention of upgrading the CPU down the road. Adding memory or a hard drive is easy. And video cards generally are as well.

Can anyone recommend a couple of good websites as a starting point, that help with the choosing of suitable components, planning and maybe carrying out the build?

I see that you are in the UK and I'm not familiar with retailers there, but you can always use Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more! as a good reference example to find parts.

Ok, with this said...here are some general rule-of-thumb principals for assembling your own computer
1). Don't skimp on either the case or the power supply. You want a solid case that's easy to work with and you want a solid power supply which won't end up dying down the road and taking a bunch of other parts with it.
2). Set a budget and stick with it...unless for some reason you severely underestimate a need.
3). Don't go cheap on the motherboard. This is a crucial point to any build and a bad foundation here can lead to potential headaches with everything else down the road.

Let us know what specific questions you have and what you budget is...there are lots of helpful people here who will throw out ideas for you.