Win7 defragmenter analyzes SSD frequently

[deepsilence]

I have newly installed a Samsung 830 128GB SSD as my system C: drive and installed Windows 7 freshly on it.

Windows 7 recognized it as SSD after running WEI and excluded the drive to be defragmented (the C: drive is not shown in the "Disk Defragmenter -> Configure schedule -> Select disks" ). see attachment 1.

However, Windows 7 defragmenter seems to automatically analyzes the SSD frequently in system idle (almost everyday). The Disk Defragmenter shows Last Run of the SSD with the "% fragmented". I noticed the value was different, smaller than that of two days ago. Also, in the Event Viewer, it shows the three log of "The disk defragmenter successfully completed analysis on SYSTEM_SSD (C. see attachment 2

recent logs of defragmenter analyzes SSD in event viewer:
7/28/2012 12:29:49 PM
7/27/2012 12:51:42 PM
7/27/2012 3:36:41 AM
7/27/2012 1:14:13 AM
7/27/2012 1:07:07 AM
7/25/2012 7:09:03 PM


Any idea why Windows 7 does that?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I've noticed the same thing.

I'd guess that the SSD is analyzed because you can defrag it manually if you want to--although you shouldn't. In that sense, Windows treats it like an HDD.

The fragmentation level of my SSD moves around a bit. I manually analyzed it a few minutes ago and the fragmentation level dropped from 10 to 9. I've never defragged it.

I'd be interested in other comments, but I don't think it's any cause for concern.

 

[centaur78]

Hi
You will not see the C: drive under "Configure Schedule" as Windows treats this as an SSD and thats how the Windows 7 defragmenter interface is programmed.

Anyway There are various reasons for why it does this analysis. Try the below steps.

1. Check the Task Scheduler( Task Scheduler library>Microsoft>Windows>Defrag ) ... it is by default set to all drive with -c parameter...Try disabling this task or at least specifying the drives you want to defrag

2. Check Boot time optimization @ "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Dfrg\BootOptimizeFunction" where Key OptimizeComplete needs to be No... If Yes it means boot defragmentation is set

3. check volume optimization HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\OptimalLayout. There should not be EnableAutoLayout key present.

4. Disable Prefetch/superfetch @ "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SessionManager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters" . Right-click on both EnablePrefetcher and EnableSuperfetch and Modify on each of these to change the value from 1 (or 3) to 0. Also disable the SuperFetch service @ Services.msc

5. Disable Indexing on the SSD.


Try these and let me know...

 

[deepsilence]

I've noticed the same thing.

I'd guess that the SSD is analyzed because you can defrag it manually if you want to--although you shouldn't. In that sense, Windows treats it like an HDD.

The fragmentation level of my SSD moves around a bit. I manually analyzed it a few minutes ago and the fragmentation level dropped from 10 to 9. I've never defragged it.

I'd be interested in other comments, but I don't think it's any cause for concern.

Thanks for replying.

Do you mean win7 defrager also checks your SSD frequently like this?

 

[deepsilence]

Hi
You will not see the C: drive under "Configure Schedule" as Windows treats this as an SSD and thats how the Windows 7 defragmenter interface is programmed.

Anyway There are various reasons for why it does this analysis. Try the below steps.

1. Check the Task Scheduler( Task Scheduler library>Microsoft>Windows>Defrag ) ... it is by default set to all drive with -c parameter...Try disabling this task or at least specifying the drives you want to defrag

2. Check Boot time optimization @ "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Dfrg\BootOptimizeFunction" where Key OptimizeComplete needs to be No... If Yes it means boot defragmentation is set

3. check volume optimization HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\OptimalLayout. There should not be EnableAutoLayout key present.

4. Disable Prefetch/superfetch @ "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SessionManager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters" . Right-click on both EnablePrefetcher and EnableSuperfetch and Modify on each of these to change the value from 1 (or 3) to 0. Also disable the SuperFetch service @ Services.msc

5. Disable Indexing on the SSD.


Try these and let me know...

Thanks a lot!.

I just checked the settings in my system:

1. There is nothing in Task Scheduler( Task Scheduler library>Microsoft>Windows>Defrag )

2. There is NO Boot time optimization @ "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Dfrg\BootOptimizeFunction"

3. There is NO volume optimization HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\OptimalLayout

4. Prefetch/superfetch were Disabled.

5. Indexing on the SSD is Disabled.

I followed Sean's guide when I was installing win7 Sean's Windows 7 Install & Optimization Guide for SSDs & HDDs

 

[centaur78]

Well let me answer your question differently....

From vista and above, microsoft has made windows defragmenter a little bit smarter on how fragmentation in analysed and defraged . it would automatically analyse the system to determine whether you have SSD or HDD. if you have SSD then windows will automatically disable defragmentation on the SSD drive. if you have HDD it would automatically enable the defragmation along with an option to do it for the whole drive or manually selecting the drives.

The only way to do this kind of check is by using the windows defragmenter and hence even when windows defragmenter is disabled on the SSD... windows needs to check every time to confirm the presence of the SSD to either during each boot (if set to automatic service ) or during the running of the schedule. (if set to manual service)

It shouldn't be a concern why you see then in eventviewer as this is how the Windows 7 defragmenter is programmed to behave..

If you dont want to see them .... go ahead and disable the Disk defragmenter service.. Hopefully that should solve your problem

 

[Maguscreed]

It's just a quick data check really I don't think it's a reason for major concern either.
Then again I'm starting to get the impression that all this work we do trying to keep reads and writes down on our ssd's is kind of wasted as well.
People act like they will crap out in 6 months if you actually use them at all.
It's not the case... not at all
I'm actually currently using my main one as a normal boot drive it's also holding some commonly used apps. I haven't taken any of the normal steps people take to protect their ssd's for extra reads and writes.

I'm at 8 months now and it's not showing any signs of suffering ill effects from this.

 

[Layback Bear]

It is highly recommended not to defrag a SSD by all manufactures. It's not needed and it will just shorten the life of the SSD.

 

[Maguscreed]

It still remains that analyzing is not actually defragging, they are two totally different things.

 

[Layback Bear]

My understanding is that still uses reads and write to analyze the SSD.
Yes analyzing and defrag are two separate process.

 

[Maguscreed]

To my knowledge no writing occurs during the analyzing process, except perhaps to the log. It also is not analyzing the entire disk it's a very brief check and completes in a matter of seconds. (at least on my system) I can't believe it's really that much of a hard hitter to lifespan.
Obviously every byte of read and write brings you one less to your last before decay, that has always been true of any type of drive or disk though.

I am simply not understanding why people freak out about it so much more with ssd's than they did with mechanicals.

 

[Layback Bear]

I'm not freaking out, it's not my computer. When one does analyze the defrag percent what has been accomplished?

 

[Maguscreed]

it can be a measure of overall drive activity and use actually. I'll agree with you that overall it's fairly useless and there is likely a way to prevent it by looking through the task scheduler.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I've noticed the same thing.

I'd guess that the SSD is analyzed because you can defrag it manually if you want to--although you shouldn't. In that sense, Windows treats it like an HDD.

The fragmentation level of my SSD moves around a bit. I manually analyzed it a few minutes ago and the fragmentation level dropped from 10 to 9. I've never defragged it.

I'd be interested in other comments, but I don't think it's any cause for concern.

Thanks for replying.

Do you mean win7 defrager also checks your SSD frequently like this?

My SSD was installed in late April 2011.

I just looked at all the event 258 (defrag) entries in Event Viewer.

My SSD was analyzed at these times:

May 2011: once
June 2011: 3 times
July 2011: 3 times
September 2011: once
October 2011: 3 times
November 2011: once
February 2012: once
May 2012: once
July 2012: once

A total of 15 times. My defrag schedule is set for weekly. My SSD is never defragged.

I did not count them, but I would estimate that each of my 2 HDDs has at least 5 times as many defrag entries in Event Viewer as my SSD---perhaps 10 times as many. Perhaps once per week according to a schedule?

I will occasionally go to the defrag window and MANUALLY analyze my drives. It may be that ALL of the 15 analyses of the SSD were the result of a manual request, rather than the result of any automated schedule. I'm not sure about that.

So it appears you have much more SSD analysis going on than I do.

 

[fseal]

BTW SSD reads do not deplete it's lifetime. At least not like writes do. Your SSD is read from probably 10,000 times as much as it is written to. Reads do not cause "wear" like writes do.

Watching the fragment value go down is likely due to the SSDs internal garbage collection at work

 

[Layback Bear]

I'm thinking Trim is there for a reason. How you would check and see if it works properly, who knows. I just use Intel Tool Box.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Layback:

Enter this at a command prompt:

fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify

If the response is DisableDeleteNotify = 0, trim is enabled.

 

[Layback Bear]

I have made that check before and got a zero (0). Just did it again and got zero (0) again. To my way of thinking Trim is the defrag for SSD's.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I have made that check before and got a zero (0). Just did it again and got zero (0) again. To my way of thinking Trim is the defrag for SSD's.

And you are still confused about how to check trim, as stated in post 16 by your "who knows" comment?

 

[Layback Bear]

I understand I have Trim working but I don't really know how good it works. That what I mean by who knows. When you defrag a hard drive a lot of times you can see with your own eyes that things are faster. A SSD is so fast anyway I don't know if one would know. That's what I mean by who knows. Back to the OP's question.
If you want to analyze your SSD do it. If you want to defrag your SSD, do it. The manufactures of all SSD that I have looked into recommend not doing it.
Have a nice day.