Windows 7 32 bit not recognizing ram upgrade...

[nIGHTmAYOR]

hi,
i decided to upgrade my laptop from 3gb ddr3 of ram to 8 gb ddr3 , now i faced an odd problem where i got to realize that despite windows recognizing all 8 gbs of ram in system information (msinfo32) under "Installed Physical Memory" i realized that both system information and task manager shows "Total Physical Memory" to be 2.93 gb , i searched the forum throughly up till i came across this thread :
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/66482-memory-set-maximum-amount-used-windows-7-a.html
now i got to realize that 32 bit windows can only handle 4gb of ram .
now trying to sort my options i have a few questions i need to be adressed :
1 - is it smooth to upgrade from 32bit to 64bit of windows , i have heaps of programs installed over years that i cant risk to lose nor have the time to reinstall if i took the fresh installation option :/ if possible then how ? any specific tool or windows version ?
2 - any known porting , utilities or hacks that were made to make 32bit os recognize all 8gb ram ?
3 - if non of the above were valid , if i am to work with only 4 gb , why does my system read only 2.93 gb of which ? i can notice it sums up all spare 5 gb as "Hardware Reserved" . i investigated to see if the extra 1 gb is reserved by graphics card but only to find that my graphics card is only up to 750 mb of shared memory and those already are shared from "Total Physical Memory" and not hardware reserve , so any clue why i have access to only 3 of the 4 gbs of rams i'm allowed ?

 

[BerntBalchen]

I seem to remember that if you want your Windows to support 8 g of ram you need W7 64 bit. If you have like more then 12g or something you need W7 64 bit Pro or Ulimate. 32 bit only supports 3 g (4 in total with the GPU aswell) There is no way in hell you can utilise more the 4g on 32 bit.

 

[Kari]

1 - is it smooth to upgrade from 32bit to 64bit of windows , i have heaps of programs installed over years that i cant risk to lose nor have the time to reinstall if i took the fresh installation option :/ if possible then how ? any specific tool or windows version ?

Upgrade is absolutely not possible. Switching from 32-bit to 64-bit and vice versa always needs a full, clean and fresh install. All installed software must be reinstalled.

2 - any known porting , utilities or hacks that were made to make 32bit os recognize all 8gb ram ?

There is a way to hack Windows Kernel. Everything I have heard of this method says it's not safe. Its drawbacks greatly outweigh its benefits. Read more: Prasys' Blog Enabling More Than 4GB RAM on Windows 7 32-bit | Prasys' Blog

3 - if non of the above were valid , if i am to work with only 4 gb , why does my system read only 2.93 gb of which ?

You have not filled your system specs so we can not know what kind of PC you have. Normally the difference in between installed and available RAM is because hardware reserves parts of it, most common cause being a GPU that uses shared memory which means the GPU has very little own memory and additionally needs some of the system RAM.

By the way, a 32-bit Windows can never give full 4GB available. The real figure is somewhere between 3.3 and 3.5 GB at max, in your case that 2.9 GB seems totally normal if your GPU uses shared memory..

Kari

 

[AddRAM]

I would make another partition and install 64 bit to test. It will take you a half hour.

 

[nIGHTmAYOR]

thanks kari for the detailed response and bernt and addrams for the thoughts.
in the past few hours i managed to tackle the issue more and i decided to share my findings with you and whomever who might be facing this , so yes it turns out i can apply a crack to what is called PAE memory limit on 32 bit systems , the process is safe in the sense of application since most of whomever crackers that released patches had worked it that they create 2 operating copies of the kernel one patched and the other unpatched so if things go wrong all you need to do is switch , however a couple of catches :

1 - first three patches i downloaded were reported as trojans / viruses by my antivirus which could be valid to tools that would hex edit and inject codes into files but yet i couldn't just trust tools reported as trojans that would deal directly with my kernel.

2 - its unclaimed but a fact , most patches were made pre service pack 1 and wont work on service pack 1 where only one cracker has released an updated version where alot of manual input is needed (PAE patch updated for Windows 7 SP1 | wj32)

3 - if your graphics card uses Hybrid / Hyper / Shared Memory , your patched system copy will boot into black outs or bsods , the work around i found was to install the xp version of the driver but then the catch would be hindered performance (no aero glass effect / random support for direct x 11 filters and features / photo editing and 3d modeling programs may crash) and that's out of my testing because shared memory is my case

now honestly i am down to installing a fresh copy of windows 7 64bit

so my question now is , are there any tools known to port installed programs from a 32 bit os across to a freshly installed 64 bit os on a new partition ? i have came across a microsoft solution once that was a software & usb cable that worked on moving installed applications along with their system files and registry settings from one system to another (was released as a solution for migration between systems and was in the 100$ range), r there any similar software solutions for those that are just migrating across partitions ? :/

 

[Kari]

so my question now is , are there any tools known to port installed programs from a 32 bit os across to a freshly installed 64 bit os on a new partition ? i have came across a microsoft solution once that was a software & usb cable that worked on moving installed applications along with their system files and registry settings from one system to another (was released as a solution for migration between systems and was in the 100$ range), r there any similar software solutions for those that are just migrating across partitions ? :/

Nothing personal, just an opinion, so please excuse my words: That is a really really stupid not a good idea.

Even if this "porting apps" would work it would be a sure way to hell, and even if we forget that we are talking about conversion from 32 to 64 bit, importing partial registry and appdata to a new, fresh install would only mean catastrophe.

You have a simple decision to make: continue with your 32-bit Windows as before, or replace it with a 64-bit version and reinstall all your apps.

I had to bookmark this thread for future reference, to be ready when you come back asking "My system is not working, giving BSOD or just freezing all the time and all I did was I moved my installed software with appdata and registry from a 32-bit Windows setup to a 64-bit Windows" .

Kari

 

[nIGHTmAYOR]

i dont kari know how you came to the conclusion bit conversion is required on crossing applications among systems , 64 bit systems run 32 bit applications just fine judging that they are installed in the x86 version of program files and their corresponding dlls and appdata are placed in corresponding 32 bit folder of the os , and i think that microsoft having that as a solution means its a public demand (not all really see re-installing a valid option for a system that had been operating for over 4 years and compiled software of 10,000$ worth not unless that system was corrupted beyond repair)
as to your concern , do not worry much , i would not do that not unless i back up the system first or probably get a new hard drive or so .

so thanks everybody for the thoughts , i will continue monitor this thread for few days for if any has more suggestions / tips to share .

 

[Kari]

Sorry, I only meant with bit conversion that a 32-bit OS is "converted" to a 64-bit OS by reinstall. Selected wrong words.

I know of course that a 64-bit Windows runs 32-bit software, having myself used only 64-bit Windows since XP Pro x64.

Really, just wrong words used. What I said still remains: the worst possible idea.

Kari

 

[whs]

You are ducking the issue. You better believe what Kari says. With a 32bit system you get about 3.25GB useable RAM - and that's the end of the line, PAE or not. That is PC101.

 

[Layback Bear]

Kari and whs your post are great. Plain simple, down to the point and correct.
I would rep you both if it would let me.

 

[whs]

Thanks Jack. I appreciate the thought.

 

[nIGHTmAYOR]

guys you are actually overlooking that i passed the point where i am trying to make the ram work on a 32 bit system and now i am researching best way to migrate to a 64 bit os without having to reinstall and configure 4 years worth of applications , hope now that i put it in a plain / simple and shorter form that its now clear.

 

[Kari]

I must repeat this first: my words are not intended to be taken personally, I have no reason to insult you or be unpolite to you. I am simply voicing my sincere opinion, based on all facts I know and my own experience.

That again being said, I also repeat this: the idea is absolutely stupid. Surf the net and ask experts what they think about moving installed apps from one Windows installation to another, even when done from 32 to 32 or 64 to 64 bit Windows. It is not going to work, with all needed appdata and registry entries.

I am sorry but you are not going to get the answer you clearly are waiting. We can continue this as long as you want to but the fact remains: it is a very bad idea to start from a fresh, clean install with apps and their data and registry imported from an old installation.

Kari

 

[nIGHTmAYOR]

is weird from an expert to describe an idea as "stupid" without proper explanation to the why he came to that conclusion . is this how you think things should be , someone enters a question in a forum and then gets a "No , its stupid" and then the someone goes "Oh , ok" and then formats his C: drive ? well dont take my words personally as well but then i await more reason than "its stupid" claim .
PS: i'm a software developer so actually and take it from me its all about the ins and outs of paths and registry and assisting dlls / appdata in most scenarios , where its only a case for few programs that were specifically written to attach themselves deep in the system for security / anti-cracking purposes .

 

[Kari]

But I have explained why it is stupid not a good idea!

For an application to work properly (talking about "real" apps, not portable ones) in Windows 7, it not only creates its program folders. There might be several registry entries, folders and files in AppData\Local, AppData\LocalLow, AppData\Roaming and ProgramData. To successfully move all these takes a lot more time than reinstalling apps on new installation.

A new installation also means a new SID. Your current registry is full with references to your current SID, some of these references in registry entries you would need to move. Good luck in finding them all.

In my responses to you I have first apologized me for using so strong language, explaining that it is not meant to be taken personally. I have done this to give myself a possibility to use really strong language because I feel it is needed: moving installed software, needed appdata and registry entries from an old 32-bit Windows installation to a new 64-bit Windows is about the worst idea there is.

someone enters a question in a forum and then gets a "No , its stupid" and then the someone goes "Oh , ok" and then formats his C: drive ?

But this is exactly what I am trying to avoid! That you would not do something that most surely would only cause big problems. My only concern is to make it very clear to you that what you want to is not realistic, it will only cause problems.

When "Someone enters a question in a forum" as you said and clearly only wants to accept one answer, should we give that expected answer also when we know it would be the wrong answer?

OK then, here it is: Yeah, that's a good idea. Do it, just copy your program folders, C:\ProgramData, C:\Users\Your_Username\AppData (Local, LocalLow and Roaming) and all registry entries for these apps. Of course it will not work, but come back then here and we help you to reinstall everything, both OS and apps.

Happy now?

Kari

EDIT: I will now edit all my posts in this thread and replace all occurrences of word stupid with words not a good, as in not a good idea instead of stupid idea.

 

[Kari]

I was talking about this with a friend, he had quite a good suggestion:

Check if your PC supports hardware virtualization (Windows Virtual PC: Configure BIOS). If yes, you can install a 64-bit Windows 7 on a virtual machine on a 32-bit host using either VirtualBox or VMware Player. Please remember that when setting up a 64-bit guest on a 32-bit Windows host, the total RAM (host + what's assigned to guest) must be max 4 GB.

Now try to "port" some of your 32-bit host's apps to the 64-bit guest, copying everything needed and see it yourself how difficult if not impossible it is, and how they most probably wont work.

I wholeheartedly recommend you to do this test.

Kari

 

[oreo27]

is weird from an expert to describe an idea as "stupid" without proper explanation to the why he came to that conclusion . is this how you think things should be , someone enters a question in a forum and then gets a "No , its stupid" and then the someone goes "Oh , ok" and then formats his C: drive ? well dont take my words personally as well but then i await more reason than "its stupid" claim .
PS: i'm a software developer so actually and take it from me its all about the ins and outs of paths and registry and assisting dlls / appdata in most scenarios , where its only a case for few programs that were specifically written to attach themselves deep in the system for security / anti-cracking purposes .

Okay, this is not necessary.

The plain and simple explanation as to why it is "stupid" to hack a 32 bit Windows OS to recognize more RAM is because you are only doing a cosmetic change, no real life benefit can come from that.

Don't be disappointed with an answer when you didn't ask the question properly. The question really looked like wanted to directly hack your way into a 32 bit OS recognizing all you RAM.

Well, for backing up your data, it's pretty simple. You can find a multitude of tutorials here:
Tutorials - Windows 7 Forums[2]=Backup%20Restore

If you've purchased a copy of Windows 7, it should have come with a 64 bit install media as well. For help with installation, check this:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/1649-clean-install-windows-7-a.html


As a personal note, please don't brag that you are a software developer. You wouldn't have come here if you need help. A person who asks help accepts that he/she needs assistance. You may have much more knowledge in programming in C++ or whatever language it is you are well versed with, but some people most certainly know a lot more in terms on the Windows operating system.

Keep it cool.

 

[nIGHTmAYOR]

kari now you are rendering this thread pointless by persisting to point its humanly impossible , now who said i am talking about human intervention , i clearly hinted i know of a hardware solution released by microsoft but the limitation here goes where it is aimed at migrating among two different machines via usb cable , so i was hoping someone knows other software solutions that can do the same thing .

 

[nIGHTmAYOR]

Okay, this is not necessary.

The plain and simple explanation as to why it is "stupid" to hack a 32 bit Windows OS to recognize more RAM is because you are only doing a cosmetic change, no real life benefit can come from that.

Don't be disappointed with an answer when you didn't ask the question properly. The question really looked like wanted to directly hack your way into a 32 bit OS recognizing all you RAM.

oh lord ..

first i'm not fighting i'm clarifying my point of view and awaiting diversified opinions before i make my mind .

second you missed the part where i said i tried it and it worked but i wasnt pleased because it doesn't suite me well because i have to down grade to xp drivers for my graphics card because it uses shared memory and that's not an option for me , now for others with hardware with separate graphics memory this could have worked as a charm

third , who said i'm braging ? i got an answer that contradicts my knowledge so i had to point where i'm coming from and how i know what i'm talking about so please read carefully before judging people because i'm already pissed at my hardware and you could have spared me your input

 

[Kari]

First, I gave you a good suggestion to test this.

Second, if you are referring to this when mentioning Microsoft tool, it is only to migrate user files and folders. Although it can migrate some app settings it can not migrate installed software.

I find it very strange that you take it so personally when the only thing I am trying to do is to save you from a lot of trouble. Porting, as you say, migrating your installed software from your old 32-bit Windows installation to a new, fresh 64-bit installation is not going to work.

I am of course not thinking only you. I also think those other users who might find this thread. It is very important to make this thing very clear: you can not migrate your installed software from 32-bit Windows installation to a 64-bit Windows.

If you do not want to accept the answers given, why do you not try the suggestion in my previous post?

Seems I need to repeat everything I have said: I have your best interest in my mind when I ask you to forget this really bad idea.

Kari