Windows 10 worse than windows 8

[Layback Bear]

Or you could be a dummy like me and haven't made up their mind yet.

I can understand that to access Cloud base things you need a password just like you need a password to log into this forum. I really don't see a problem with that.

I would like the password methods and options simple and on one page that a new user doesn't have to find like finding the proper download button on Cnet.

Plain, simple and to the point which option does what.

You are 100% right, we have been using Cloud based things for decades. Most just never thought of where things were coming from when they ticked on it.
It just popped up on their screen when they ticked on it.

I really don't care if Microsoft gives Windows 10 away or charges $200.00 dollars.
My decision will be based on some very simple points.

1. Can I do more of what I want to do with Windows 10 compared to Windows 7?
2. Can the things I don't want that comes with Windows 10 be turned off or removed without having the knowledge of a Kari and the system still work properly?
3. Can I make Windows 10 like I want it to without a bunch of 3rd party programs or being a customization GURU. Nothing fancy because I don't do those kinds of thing now. I need to be able to adjust things to my different screens and seeing ability.
4. Will I be able to type things without Bing jumping up all the time.
5. Will I be able to normal things to me anyway like msconfig, Disk Management and Disk Clean ect without jumping through hoops or as talented as a Kari.
6. Can I type something into the Start Search and find things on my computer without a bunch of online B/S


I could make a longer list but their is no point. I think every one get the point.
At this time the what I call normal things either don't work, I don't know how to make them work or I can't find them.
Things that it is said will be fixed later; that is fine with me.
I can wait.

Oh, I also don't want any little colored squares any where on my computers.

I look at a new operating system like I look at any new program.

Does it do what I want it to do and better than the program I already use.
I also want to have control over it. I'm willing to pay for it. I don't need a free one and I'm surly not going to get a counterfeit or a non-genuine copy.
I don't want a system that requires 100 mb download speed to use something in a reasonable fashion that should already be on my hard drive or ssd.

I guess I'm just being picky. Kari you made a excellent point here. I totally agree.

My recommendations

If you don't like whisky, drink beer. If you don't want to drive a Mazda, get a VW. If you don't like your spouse, get a divorce. If you hate spinach, don't eat it. If you don't like Windows 10, don't install it.

That is why I'm taking my time look through the good, bad and ugly of Windows 10. Hopefully I will be able to make a informed decision to buy or not to buy.

 

[ThrashZone]

I believe through the years that I've read sync is what people are most concerned about.
Buggerman theories but some valid points about wasting resources or space for something that they would not or did not want to use.
Regardless even you have to give the individual the choice to have or not have an app to do such functions installed

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...

 Cloud

Each and every Both of you geeks reading this are using cloud. A UK based company Designer Media Ltd. maintains these forums of ours on servers located in the USA. Everything is there, your avatar and the screenshots you have uploaded to your posts, the page frames and CSS files, each post, each word ever written in any section of the forums. When you clicked the title of this thread your local computer retrieved the data from the server in USA making it available to you wherever in the world you are. That is the very definition of cloud computing, storing the data somewhere else then using the correct tools, in this case a browser, to retrieve it to be used on a local computer.

The same with your email. Especially IMAP and Exchange mail protocols are pure cloud services; the messages are stored on a server from where you retrieve them to read on your local computer. YouTube, Netflix, Vimeo the same, you get data from a cloud streamed to your local computer. Gamers using Steam use cloud every time the Steam is running, and so on. Even checking the weather or reading the news is cloud based, the information stored and your request to get it handled on MSN Weather or CNN or what not, then presented to you on your local computer.

Regarding cloud services, the only difference between Windows XP & 7 compared to Windows 8 and later is that when using a Microsoft Account to sign in, the OneDrive storage, Mail and XBox apps work out-of-the-box and if you want to you can start installing software from the Windows Store. You can start backing up your files to OneDrive, get your emails and use your XBox games, music and videos without needing separately sign in to those services. That's it, that's the extent of the cloud in Windows 8 and later. By the way, of course it's totally up to you to decide if you want these services, you don't have to run OneDrive, Mail or XBox apps if you don't want to.

Those users who don't like the idea don't have to use any of these services. The same desktop software that they had installed on Seven can be installed in Eight and Ten and it can be used exactly as in Seven.

The absolutely only way not to use cloud services is never to connect to Internet. How fun or practical would that be?...

It's refreshing to see someone who understands what the cloud is. To over simplify what you just said, all the cloud is is a remote server accessed via the internet. However, not all cloud services are the same. Some can be trusted; some cannot. One of the biggest problems with using the cloud is internet availability. Not everyone has access to the broadband internet necessary for total cloud immersion as M$ and other companies (Adobe, are you listening?) are pushing us toward. Not everyone who does have the access can afford it or are willing to pay for it. It's one thing for big businesses to depend heavily on cloud storage and something else for starving students, Joe Sixpack struggling to put food on the family's table while keeping a roof over their heads, or Ma and Pa Kettle living month to month on an inadequate pension or just Social Security only.

...

 Local Account in Windows 8 and later

Since version 8 the Windows operating system is designed and meant to be used with a Microsoft Account. It is the default, the way it should be. It is of course natural that this, signing in with an existing MS Account or offering the option to create a new one are the ones which are preferred and shown as default.

However, Microsoft has made it very clear they do not force users to use an email account to sign in to Windows and given a quite an easy way to get around this and sign in with a local account. In my personal (and naturally quite subjective) opinion all these complaints about how difficult it is to sign in with a local account are ungrounded and invalid. Of course the selection is not there on the first dialog after the installation with 128 point bold and cursive font in blinking background. No, Windows is meant to be used with an MS Account.

But the option is there, easy to find and use. It is also well documented. Please forgive me to putting it this way but really, if a user do not bother to find out about this option and still is unable to find it, maybe this user really shouldn't use Windows at all due lacking capacity.

As the possibility to use a local account has remained about the same and can be done about as easy as it was in Windows 8, I have been really surprised to see and hear these complaints. Not a single post has been about "How nice that Microsoft continues supporting the non email based sign in in Windows 10". Why? This is also one of those things where the reason to a complaint has to be made up. I can almost see it when I close my eyes, a "Windows Sucks" geek sitting in front of his PC, thinking about what he should post now to show how much he hates it:

"Can't complain about Microsoft forcing me to use a Microsoft Account because they still allow using a local account, so let's see if I can complain about something else. Oh yeah, seems that I need two extra mouse clicks for a local account, that's a good one, I'll start complaining about that".

...

Kari

Actually, the procedure for using a local account is not well documented for anyone other than geeks and, even then, there are a lot who still do not know about that. It obvious to you how to do so but what's obvious to one person isn't always obvious to others. And what about the vast majority of people, such the aforementioned Joe Sixpack and Ma and Pa Kettle, who will be completely clueless that they have an option because of the deceitful way M$ has laid out the UI?

I don't have any objections to a user account. I have numerous user accounts with software companies, internet vendors, and websites, all of which only require me to enable only their cookies. My objection is it is impossible for me to get a user account with M$ unless I have all my cookies enabled, not just the ones M$ uses (and I have tried several times). The only reasons I can think of for that is either piddle poor web design by M$ or M$ wants to get paid for planting tracking and advertising cookies on my computer, neither of which I feel is acceptable.

Btw, your last quote is just ridiculous.

 

[Kari]

I believe through the years that I've read sync is what people are most concerned about.

The beauty of Windows used with MS Account is that you as the user decide what if anything is synced. Put anything you want to be synced between your devices in OneDrive subfolders and that's it. Don't put anything there and nothing will be synced.

I have selected all possible sync options so in my case not only OneDrive but also my settings will be synced. When I install Windows on a new computer the desktop theme, colors, background, Taskbar location and so on are synced. When this new computer comes to range of any WiFi network I have ever used on any of my other computers, the WiFi passkey is synced and already there, the new computer connecting automatically. IE on this new computer gets favorites, saved password and browsing history automatically and so on.

However, it is extremely easy to disable all sync settings, or make these computers to sync and that PC not. Everything is up to you, as you wish.

I have really big difficulties to see any reason for concern in this.

 

[z3r010]

I love the account syncing, the only issue I've had with it is it syncing my Surface US keyboard settings on to my PC that has a UK keyboard other than that it's great and TBH I wish the syncing would go much further and include stuff like outlook email account settings etc.

 

[Layback Bear]

Perfect example.
John loves sync and wants more.
I don't love it with all it's new uses.

As long as their is a choice we will both be happy.

Computer gods give John the syncs he want. We need him to be happy.

 

[Kari]

Perfect example.
John loves sync and wants more.
I don't love it with all it's new uses.

I still find it difficult to understand what the problem really is. Syncing is something you only do if you want to; if you don't like the idea of having your data and information available whatever device you use, simply do not use it, do not sync.

To allow us who like to idea of synchronizing the data and settings, the option has to be there. The sync features can't be taken away, left out from Windows because some users don't like it.

 

[lehnerus2000]

The initial installation does what now? local or Admin account?

No it's actually basically "MS Cloud" or "Other Cloud".
You only get a Local Account option after you choose "Other Cloud".

That's rather funny since the 32bit as I thought went right on it won't connect online! This is what you see when reaching the Create an account for this PC or with 7 along with previous version name for PC.

If your network is not connected (or it is broken) W10 won't offer the MS Account option, it will go straight to the Local Account option.

I have had LAN connection problems with my W10 b9926 VM (it needed a Registry hack to fix the issue) but it has never failed to connect to the Internet.

 

[Layback Bear]

Kari that is exactly what I said in my post.

Perfect example.
John loves sync and wants more.
I don't love it with all it's new uses.

As long as their is a choice we will both be happy.

Computer gods give John the syncs he want. We need him to be happy.

If you like it like John and others by all means use it.
If you don't like just don't use it.
The fact that their is a choice makes many happy.

 

[lehnerus2000]

At no stage, did I suggest that MS should not offer an online account

But the option is there, easy to find and use. It is also well documented. Please forgive me to putting it this way but really, if a user do not bother to find out about this option and still is unable to find it, maybe this user really shouldn't use Windows at all due lacking capacity.

That is exactly what MS implied when people complained about the Start Screen.
"You're too stupid to use a computer. STFU and hand over your money."

It was such a brilliant marketing strategy that the W8 series has become a runaway success and is the most popular OS ever made.
Oh wait ... it actually has woeful sales compared to other Windows operating systems including Vista.

Actually, the procedure for using a local account is not well documented for anyone other than geeks and, even then, there are a lot who still do not know about that.

Exactly.

"Can't complain about Microsoft forcing me to use a Microsoft Account because they still allow using a local account, so let's see if I can complain about something else. Oh yeah, seems that I need two extra mouse clicks for a local account, that's a good one, I'll start complaining about that".

Btw, your last quote is just ridiculous.

Agreed.

Kari whined about people saying that MS is "forcing" them to use an online account.
I explained why they might think that, which provoked another ludicrous bout of ranting and (IMO) "corporate shilling".

At no stage, did I suggest that MS should not offer an online account.

 

[Kari]

Reading these ridiculous comments I cannot avoid thinking that it seems as some users see this like "I do not like this, therefore it should not exist. I don't like change and evolution in computing, therefore it should not change and evolve".

Microsoft has never said, hinted or implied that users who did not like the Start Screen are too stupid. Nor have I, all I said that if this widely known and documented "two clicks to local account" approach is not known by the user when he / she starts the installation, it implies that the user is doing the installation without any whatsoever prior information seeking, not finding out the instructions.

I will not apologize my honest opinion: if you cannot set up Windows using a local account, can't find the option and don't bother to find out the instructions, you are better off with another OS. I repeat myself now but really, users against MS Account should instead of complaining really reallize how nice it is, how clearly MS has listened the users and shown this by letting the option to use a local account instead of an MS account be there.

Again, nobody is nor will be forced to use Windows 10 on their private computers, nobody is nor will be forced to use an MS Account with Windows 10. Macs can be bought everywhere, Linux downloaded for free.

 

[ThrashZone]

Being a preview I would expect the ms verses local account to be given equal space on the install which it is evolving as Kari has posted,
Still not as clear cut as I saw in the last install of win-8 but getting better none the less

I got a popup message in 9926 I believe that asked why I didn't use a ms account
I simply said I did not want to connect my computers login to online services in that way = My world My way.

 

[Layback Bear]

As long as different methods of accounts are explained properly, choices are displayed properly and you have a choice I see no problem. I don't think that many will have a problem.

What I don't want is having to hunt things down like you would on a download with a bunch of PUP's to check or uncheck.

No hunting and pecking to try and understand what you want or don't want.

 

[Kari]

To add to my "I don't get this" list: If there's a user who clearly don't like using an MS Account and if this user still wants to test Windows 10, why does this user feel it is impossible to go and search infromation prior to installation? If you are installing Windows 10, go to TenForums.com tutorials and search for Clean Install or Local Account. One search and a few minutes and you have illustrated instructions.

I can understand that not all users can think logically. When logics is not your thing you should already know it and be used to read manuals and get to know the instructions with new stuff. Why is it so impossible with Windows? You don't know something, you don't know how a certain procedure is done, why can't you search for instructions?

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

To add to my "I don't get this" list: If there's a user who clearly don't like using an MS Account and if this user still wants to test Windows 10, why does this user feel it is impossible to go and search infromation prior to installation? If you are installing Windows 10, go to TenForums.com tutorials and search for Clean Install or Local Account. One search and a few minutes and you have illustrated instructions.

I can understand that not all users can think logically. When logics is not your thing you should already know it and be used to read manuals and get to know the instructions with new stuff. Why is it so impossible with Windows? You don't know something, you don't know how a certain procedure is done, why can't you search for instructions?

Kari, you appear to be too used to knowing when and where to get help when you need it to remember that not everyone is a geek with your level of expertise; for that matter not everyone is a geek, period. Very few people are going to know that there is an alternative when the UI has it so well buried. Most people, when they first fire up their shiny new Win 10 computer, are just going to follow the prompts, same as they have done in the past without any problems and blindly take what M$ throws at them, not having a clue that they have other options. None of them are even going to know there is a Ten Forums they can go to for help and, if a few of them stumble on Ten forums, they won't know what to search for or even how to ask for help. Clean Install and Local Account will be foreign terms to them. If they do find the instructions, they probably won't know how to follow them.

Again, I have no problem with having an account; my problem is bloody M$ won't let me have one unless I enable ALL cookies. I draw the line there.

 

[Dude]

@Lady F, I'm confused as I can block cookies. Are you sure it is not a requirement for apps, mail etc? I tried googling requirements but got a lot of garble. Can you post a link that shows all cookies must be enable to have a ms account please.

 

[Night Hawk]

Next will be the VBox install to see if the VM there will be able to connect online since something seems to be blocking the generic network adapter that needs to be worked out and could well be the av/firewall program at work.

I've not had an issue with network/internet access installing Win10 on VBox or Hyper-V

-Jamie

This isn't the first VM to run into this type of problem. Even the two 32 and 64bit XP Modes ran into this once or twice. But these are the first headaches for W10 on VM.

Next will be the VBox install to see if the VM there will be able to connect online since something seems to be blocking the generic network adapter that needs to be worked out and could well be the av/firewall program at work.

In VMware machine settings you could try setting the Network Adapter to Bridged and see if that makes a difference.

For whatever reason changing this setting from the default NAT to Bridged makes a difference for me ... performance and reliability is much better ...

It's quick and easy change you could test first, before messing with av/firewall settings.

Well the problem is there isn't anything being flagged coming up. This was mentioned only as a possible cause while typically the prompt "do you trust this network?" or something close will appear.

As for checking off the bridged option that was already thought of as well as trying to see if it could detect the host nic card on onboard Lan chip. The previous 8.1 version's VM connected without issue. W10 however is not detecting any connections? Linux Mint being the other VM at the moment connects and has sound while 10 is playing stubborn it seems.

Kari that is exactly what I said in my post.

Perfect example.
John loves sync and wants more.
I don't love it with all it's new uses.

As long as their is a choice we will both be happy.

Computer gods give John the syncs he want. We need him to be happy.

If you like it like John and others by all means use it.
If you don't like just don't use it.
The fact that their is a choice makes many happy.

The "One" drive was all too obvious as the Cloud storage medium there. For many however Cloud is still a new term for them not realizing all those folders in email accounts for Drafts, Inbox, Trash, etc. have been Cloud all along. The difference now however is the increased capacity for separate cloud accounts for much larger online storage on provider servers over local storage on network frameworks for businesses and 2-3gb personal accounts since web storage capacities have grown over time to keep up with the growth of networks.

As for personal preferences that has always been an issue of some type for the endless variety of users. You can't simply pacify the masses each and every time with every thing!

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

@Lady F, I'm confused as I can block cookies. Are you sure it is not a requirement for apps, mail etc? I tried googling requirements but got a lot of garble. Can you post a link that shows all cookies must be enable to have a ms account please.

I just now tried and couldn't get past the first screen; it just sat there and laughed at me.

 

[Dude]

I just went to create a new account, clicked privacy and cookie setting, it shows this

Most Microsoft websites use "cookies," which are small text files stored on your device, to help operate the sites and collect information about online activity. For instance, we use cookies to store your preferences and settings; help with sign-in; provide targeted ads; combat fraud; and analyze site operations.

We also use web beacons to help deliver cookies and compile analytics. These may include web beacons from third-party service providers.

You have a variety of tools to control cookies and similar technologies, including:
•Browser controls to block and delete cookies;
•Advertising controls, including Microsoft's controls at Your privacy and Microsoft personalized ads, to opt out of receiving behaviorally targeted ads; and
•Controls from some analytics service providers to opt out of data collection through web beacons.

Source

 

[whs]

I believe through the years that I've read sync is what people are most concerned about.
Buggerman theories but some valid points about wasting resources or space for something that they would not or did not want to use.
Regardless even you have to give the individual the choice to have or not have an app to do such functions installed

This is exactly the point. I have no problem with the MS account regarding privacy or security. My problem is the sync.

I have 12 different Windows systems where I am the admin although half of those are used by my wife. Some have very special applications like controlling my wife's cutting machine for crafting. And my wife does completely different things than I do. Our travel systems are very small. Mine has a C partition of 20GB - that's all and the wife's is not much bigger. I certainly don't want to have anything synced on those systems.

Now Kari is going to tell me that there are all kinds of settings you can make to avoid that syncing. But I am already sufficiently busy with the basic maintenance of 12 systems. I don't need any extra chores.