STILL confused about "Upgrade" installation process.

[timsart]

MS contact info

I started my call with product sales and licensing, and selected the business option.

Telephone

Microsoft Product Pre-sales & Information
Hours: 6:00 A.M. - 6:00 P.M. Pacific Time, Monday through Friday
1-800-Microsoft (642-7676)

Help and Support

If you hit a brick wall with whichever rep you speak to, PM me for the name of the specific rep I dealt with. I'd rather not post his direct contact info for his privacy.

I'm assuming all the Reps will be helpful, so I don't want to flood only my Rep with requests.

You can also try: 1-877-MY-MS-STORE (877-696-7786)

That is the contact number I was given last for finalizing my issue once the products arrive.

Additional Contacts: [FONT=&quot]MSI Presales and Licensing team at 1-800-426-9400

(My Rep suggested calling this number first.)
[/FONT]

 

[whs]

Thanks timsart, very useful. Saved me to wade thru the whole chain of command again.

 

[Tews]

Hello everyone. I purchased one of the $49 W7 Home Premium upgrades when they were available. However, It's still unclear to me whether or not I will be able to install this thing without a pre-existing OS installation on my hard drive. Can anyone give me a definitive yes or no? Thanks.

Definitive answer is no, you do not have to have Windows installed to install the upgrade version.

Cite your source Mac...

 

[pat247]

timsart, thank you for the info about the Win 2000 upgrade. I called the Microsoft store and pleaded my case and was told that I will have an answer within 72 hours.

Update: The Microsoft store has ruled in my favor and will send me the full version of windows 7 home premium instead of the upgrade version. This would not have happened if it weren`t for seven forums and the helpful members. Thanks again timsart.

 

[zrtom]

Although not an issue for me directly as a TechNet subscriber, the "Upgrade" install process was still bugging the hell out of me and some of my House Party guests are beginning to inquire about the exact upgrade details. So I wrote to Microsoft. I've attached the reply I received yesterday.

Most of the folks I will be doing upgrades for are Dell users so I phrased my questions in that context to alleviate their particular fears.... not that it should matter for others. Dells are a bit unique in that they ship a pre-activated full OS disk and not a "System Restore" disk.

The rumors of clean installs with an upgrade disk apprear to be true.
But, it also appears that one doesn't just slip in the Vista disk when prompted. The upgrade process must see a fully installed and activated qualifying version before it will allow a complete disk format to pass a flag that allows the upgrade key to activate Windows 7. I guess the "flag" would be held in the RAMdrive during installation or placed in the System Reserved partition.

I think this is the pertinent part:
" If you choose to use the upgrade version of Windows 7, if you ever had to format your computers you would have to install your original copy of Windows Vista and then install the upgrade to Windows 7. This must be done using either method of installation with the upgrade version.
If you wish to bypass the requirement of installing your Vista during every computer reformat then I suggest you purchase the full version and perform a clean installation. This would enable to re-install your operating system and get your computer up and running much quicker."

So, the clean install process is clearly more complicated but doable. And in the case of Dell users, the process will be a little quicker for future reinstallations because we can get Vista installed and activated from a USB key in about 10 minutes. Won't have to sit through all of the driver and crapware installations of some "System Restore" processes. It shouldn't matter that many of the drivers aren't present, just that Vista is installed and activated.




Tom

 

[Dave76]

Although not an issue for me directly as a TechNet subscriber, the "Upgrade" install process was still bugging the hell out of me and some of my House Party guests are beginning to inquire about the exact upgrade details. So I wrote to Microsoft. I've attached the reply I received yesterday.

Most of the folks I will be doing upgrades for are Dell users so I phrased my questions in that context to alleviate their particular fears.... not that it should matter for others. Dells are a bit unique in that they ship a pre-activated full OS disk and not a "System Restore" disk.

The rumors of clean installs with an upgrade disk apprear to be true.
But, it also appears that one doesn't just slip in the Vista disk when prompted. The upgrade process must see a fully installed and activated qualifying version before it will allow a complete disk format to pass a flag that allows the upgrade key to activate Windows 7. I guess the "flag" would be held in the RAMdrive during installation or placed in the System Reserved partition.

I think this is the pertinent part:
" If you choose to use the upgrade version of Windows 7, if you ever had to format your computers you would have to install your original copy of Windows Vista and then install the upgrade to Windows 7. This must be done using either method of installation with the upgrade version.
If you wish to bypass the requirement of installing your Vista during every computer reformat then I suggest you purchase the full version and perform a clean installation. This would enable to re-install your operating system and get your computer up and running much quicker."

So, the clean install process is clearly more complicated but doable. And in the case of Dell users, the process will be a little quicker for future reinstallations because we can get Vista installed and activated from a USB key in about 10 minutes. Won't have to sit through all of the driver and crapware installations of some "System Restore" processes. It shouldn't matter that many of the drivers aren't present, just that Vista is installed and activated.

View attachment 31321


Tom

Thanks Tom,

Good news for the Dell users.

This has been the question of interest for some time now, this revelation is appreciated by all waiting to hear the news, now we know.

Great find, even greater info,

 

[Saltgrass]

I agree with all the complaints. Microsoft messed up the Vista release and now is causing problems with the new OS. All these questions and problems show many people do not understand and cannot get definite answers as to what they need to do.

Shame on Microsoft for causing all this confusion. They could put out a web site with all these answers, but have not bothered to do so. They really need to delete the requirement for an activated version of a prior OS being installed and just go with a valid copy of an prior OS DVD to prove the update would be allowed.

 

[mcleod55]

I agree with all the complaints. Microsoft messed up the Vista release and now is causing problems with the new OS. All these questions and problems show many people do not understand and cannot get definite answers as to what they need to do.

Shame on Microsoft for causing all this confusion. They could put out a web site with all these answers, but have not bothered to do so. They really need to delete the requirement for an activated version of a prior OS being installed and just go with a valid copy of an prior OS DVD to prove the update would be allowed.

LINK This MS link has the install info on the bottom right corner of the page. It's been there for a while now.

 

[gregrocker]

Downgrade: Change Windows 7 Ultimate to Premium or Professional

 

[sup3rsprt]

just go with a valid copy of an prior OS DVD to prove the update would be allowed.

Anyone can download a "valid copy" of Windows, illegally. Therefore your method does nothing to prevent piracy.

Only if you had to verify the product key would it work. But you can't verify that a product key is genuine without an internet connection (which you likely wouldn't have during installation).

 

[DeaconFrost]

Anyone can download a "valid copy" of Windows, illegally. Therefore your method does nothing to prevent piracy.

I'm going to break our tradition and agree with you 100% on this.

 

[Kryptryx]

How about requireing that to activate the windows 7 update, a valid key for a prior version be entered first, which can then be validated, and then a update key be entered. Microsoft can track the pairing to ensure old keys aren't reused for mutiple upgrade keys.

 

[MacGyvr]

How about requireing that to activate the windows 7 update, a valid key for a prior version be entered first, which can then be validated, and then a update key be entered. Microsoft can track the pairing to ensure old keys aren't reused for mutiple upgrade keys.

How about it doesn't matter because the product is complete will be on the shelves in 6 days?

 

[patrickbateman]

I was pretty much just told "too bad" and I would either get a refund from my preorder or pay another $150 for full version if I wanted to upgrade my windows 2000 to 7

 

[SIW2]

You need to raise the point in writing - email will do - it is legally binding.

Attach a copy of the screenshot posted earlier - that proves they were saying the upgrade license can be used from 2000. That is part the contract - a contract requires offer and acceptance - that was part of the offer - you accepted by buying the upgrade.

They have no choice but to honor it.

 

[DeaconFrost]

Right. I have the full versions of both XP and Vista, with legitimate serial numbers. It's just insane that they expect me to go back and install Vista before installing W7 every time I get a new hard drive or run DBAN.

So get a drive-imaging program and create a clean image for yourself, or clone the old install to the new hard drive. Or, go buy the full version if it will cause you this much trouble. You shouldn't be reinstalling that often with Windows 7 anyway, and if you swap HDDs often, clone it. Simple.

 

[gregrocker]

Reinstalls are a thing of the past with WIndows 7 outstanding new Backup Imaging (hey I sound like a MS commercial - fine by me): 20 minutes to image your HDD and 20 minutes to reimage to your HDD or a new one.

Just put any licensed OS on a drive and activate it - nothing else needed - then start the upgrade from there to clean install (needed anyway for any OS besides Vista) over itself, or to another formatted partition or HDD (my preferred). Install your programs, configure to satisfaction, then image the drive. You can then delete the XP/Vista.

 

[SIW2]

Hi Greg,

LOL - you do sound like a commercial.

Exactly how much USED space do you back up in 20 mins.?

That is critical to the speed, as is the cpu you use , and the free space on the target destination.

BTW - Imaging software has been around a long time - much of it free.

Many of us have always made regular backup images.

It's good that MS now include their own version in the Home Premium edition with 7 - previously, it only came with the higher Editions.

P.S. I backed up an o/s partition , installed, with updates and programs - 12.3gb used space - took less than 6 minutes with Macrium Reflect. Around 10 mins with Paragon - that is not as fast as Macrium, but works at a very low level of cpu usage. That was to another partition on the same HD , which obviously slows it down.

 

[gregrocker]

Hi Greg,

LOL - you do sound like a commercial.

Exactly how much USED space do you back up in 20 mins.?

That is critical to the speed, as is the cpu you use , and the free space on the target destination.

BTW - Imaging software has been around a long time - much of it free.

Many of us have always made regular backup images.

It's good that MS now include their own version in the Home Premium edition with 7 - previously, it only came with the higher Editions.

P.S. I backed up an o/s partition , installed, with updates and programs - 12.3gb used space - took less than 6 minutes with Macrium Reflect. Around 10 mins with Paragon - that is not as fast as Macrium, but works at a very low level of cpu usage. That was to another partition on the same HD , which obviously slows it down.

74.4/320g in 20 minutes. I just used Acronis to do my roommates 25g Vista and it was the same.

Yes backup imaging is just catching up with us plebes now that MS "put a button."
I stare at these buttons like Homer at the nuke plant until I dare venture forth and now find this to be my favorite new feature of Windows.

Actually the emphasis is because it is dawning on anxious Upgraders that creating the backup image is our free pass to never having to clean install again. And since my favorite hobby is clean reinstalls with optimizing (my friends and family love me and fly me all over the country), I need a new hobby!

That said, if you read these many threads where the tech savvy are advising over and over to image the drive, I notice even many enthusiasts ignoring the suggestion like it is too advanced. So I persist. It easy. Do it.

 

[gregrocker]

If you already have the RC installed, MS has said that you will be able to do the double install only once... after that you will need to insert a disc with a qualifying version in order for it to work. So, be sure to image your drive immediately after activating..

I hope this answers your questions...

Actually the RC will serve as the underlying activated OS for upgrade until it expires June 1. The Upgrade only looks for an activated OS. I'm not sure it would work with the Enterprise 90 day trial that MS provides now for download with activation, but from what I have read on Win7 Technet blog, there is no way for the installer to determine anything other than it is MS OS and activated.