Solved Questions re hybrid drive choice and usage

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Yea I'd leave indexing alone too
If you don't use hibernation or can live without it = depending on if you have a backup battery system you can disable hibernation.

 

[Megahertz07]

Below are the files you need to move \Users to D:
w7hp.xml - Edit to match your needs (follow Kari tutorial)
sysprep.cmd.txt - Edit to match your needs (follow Kari tutorial) and then rename to sysprep.cmd

http://www.sevenforums.com/attachme...-while-hdd-light-turns-solid-red-relocate.zip

I've one PNY - so far so good
PNY CS1311 2.5" 120GB SATA III TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSD7CS1311-120-RB-Newegg.com

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Hi,
Yea I'd leave indexing alone too
If you don't use hibernation or can live without it = depending on if you have a backup battery system you can disable hibernation.

To expand on ThrashZone's answer a bit... A UPS (Uninterruptable Power supply, a battery backed device that will keep your computer running briefly after a power outage until it can be safely shut down) uses Hibernation to save any work on your computer and shut down the computer so it isn't lost after a power failure if you have it set up to do so. If you do not, or you don't have a UPS (they are not cheap), and you do not otherwise use Hibernation, then disabling Hibernation will reduce the number of writes to the SSD.

In my case, I do not have Hibernation disabled on my desktop machine since I do have it powered through a UPS and I have it set to Hibernate the computer if the power isn't restored in two minutes. My two notebooks, however, even though their batteries act like a UPS, are never never running unattended so, if the power goes out while I'm using one, I have almost four hours to finish what I am doing and manually shut down the computer. Since I would never otherwise use Hibernate on those computers, I disabled Hibernate on them.

If you do use Hibernate, I wouldn't worry about disabling it. While Hibernate does use up some of the available writes on an SSD, the chances are pretty good you still won't use up them up before you replace the SSD, or the computer, with newer technology.

 

[SeanHL]

I'm trying to do some research on the differences between the PRO and EVO series, and it basically comes down to how long the memory lasts, right? There's a big difference, but i do see that the EVO's TLC memory is estimated to last for the shorter period of 19 years, though it doesn't specify under which conditions that is. It's probably not as good as it sounds, since i know it's more of a gradual decline than an immediate one, but it seems tempting. 1TB of EVO memory actually seems possible, budget-wise. and would give me enough headroom for a bit of deterioration. Alternatively, i'd have to go for 500GB of PRO memory (costing 240, my earlier check was wrong), which still seems just a little bit small. So my current options are this:

1: 128GB SSD PRO and 1TB HDD for about 200 total
-hassle of handling multiple drives of different types, slower overall speed. Contains a HDD, which seem to be cursed for me.
+Reaches required storage space and boot speed for lowest price.
2: 500GB PRO SSD for 240
-Not really big enough, and i can't add a second SSD later. Using a small HDD or external storage for infrequently accessed files seems possible, but they're only a small portion of what currently occupies my disk space, so it wouldn't help much to move them off the main drive.
+Everything loads super fast, it's simple, and only slightly more expensive that the previous option. Only issue is the space.
3: 1TB EVO for 320 euros.
-Expensive. Lower lifespan than the previous options, depending how long the HDD lasts this time, but how long that lifespan would be is debatable. This page seems hopeful though:
Endurance: Not a Problem Even at 19nm - Samsung SSD 840 EVO Review: 120GB, 250GB, 500GB, 750GB & 1TB Models Tested
The final section does state that the lifespan would be significantly shorter when moving around small files, but even if it would only be 25% of what's listed there it would still be way longer than what i've experienced so far. I'll just have to be careful on how i manage my files.
+As easy to use as the 500GB SSD, and reaches the size i want. If the above link is accurate, it wouldn't even matter in terms of lifespan either.

So what do you guys think of my third option? As long as i follow the advice of the link thrashzone posted earlier, it should be fine.

 

[SeanHL]

Below are the files you need to move \Users to D:
w7hp.xml - Edit to match your needs (follow Kari tutorial)
sysprep.cmd.txt - Edit to match your needs (follow Kari tutorial) and then rename to sysprep.cmd

http://www.sevenforums.com/attachme...-while-hdd-light-turns-solid-red-relocate.zip

I've one PNY - so far so good
PNY CS1311 2.5" 120GB SATA III TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSD7CS1311-120-RB-Newegg.com

According to his toturial, i only need the xml file. Where is the cmd file mentioned?

 

[Megahertz07]

Page 5 - Using System Preparation Tool. Instead of typing the CMD Sysprep.exe /audit /reboot /unattend:\relocate.xml - use the bat file.
The Relocate.xml file is for win 7 pro.
If your win 7 is other then pro, let me know so I can give you the appropriate file.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I'm trying to do some research on the differences between the PRO and EVO series, and it basically comes down to how long the memory lasts, right? There's a big difference, but i do see that the EVO's TLC memory is estimated to last for the shorter period of 19 years, though it doesn't specify under which conditions that is. It's probably not as good as it sounds, since i know it's more of a gradual decline than an immediate one, but it seems tempting. 1TB of EVO memory actually seems possible, budget-wise. and would give me enough headroom for a bit of deterioration. Alternatively, i'd have to go for 500GB of PRO memory (costing 240, my earlier check was wrong), which still seems just a little bit small. So my current options are this:

1: 128GB SSD PRO and 1TB HDD for about 200 total
-hassle of handling multiple drives of different types, slower overall speed. Contains a HDD, which seem to be cursed for me.
+Reaches required storage space and boot speed for lowest price.
2: 500GB PRO SSD for 240
-Not really big enough, and i can't add a second SSD later. Using a small HDD or external storage for infrequently accessed files seems possible, but they're only a small portion of what currently occupies my disk space, so it wouldn't help much to move them off the main drive.
+Everything loads super fast, it's simple, and only slightly more expensive that the previous option. Only issue is the space.
3: 1TB EVO for 320 euros.
-Expensive. Lower lifespan than the previous options, depending how long the HDD lasts this time, but how long that lifespan would be is debatable. This page seems hopeful though:
Endurance: Not a Problem Even at 19nm - Samsung SSD 840 EVO Review: 120GB, 250GB, 500GB, 750GB & 1TB Models Tested
The final section does state that the lifespan would be significantly shorter when moving around small files, but even if it would only be 25% of what's listed there it would still be way longer than what i've experienced so far. I'll just have to be careful on how i manage my files.
+As easy to use as the 500GB SSD, and reaches the size i want. If the above link is accurate, it wouldn't even matter in terms of lifespan either.

So what do you guys think of my third option? As long as i follow the advice of the link thrashzone posted earlier, it should be fine.

Since cost is an issue, I would got with Option 3.There was an endurance test recently that showed the 840 EVO lasting up to 600TB of writes, although by then it was wearing out blocks (SSDs' equivalent to HDD sectors)—that started at 200TB of writes—and didn't last much longer after that. Keep in mind this was an 840 EVO; the current 850 EVOs are better drives. The upshot of this is, as long as you don't do a lot of heavy writing (such as commercial video rendering) or something stupid, such as daily defragging (you should never defrag an SSD except, maybe, once every two or three years), you will most likely never wear out the SSD before you upgrade to newer technology.

Keep in mind the review you linked was for the older 840 EVO. The current 850 EVOs have a five year, 150TBW (TB of Writes) warranty, much better than the 840 EVOs.

Keep in mind that any drive, no matter the quality, can fail prematurely; that's why they have warranties. The better drives are just less likely for that to happen.

Alos keep in mind that, since any drive can fail without warning at any time, backups are imperative! Be sure to allow for backup drives in your budget (although you can less expensive 5400rpm HDDs for backups; that's what I used to do).

 

[SeanHL]

Page 5 - Using System Preparation Tool. Instead of typing the CMD Sysprep.exe /audit /reboot /unattend:\relocate.xml - use the bat file.
The Relocate.xml file is for win 7 pro.
If your win 7 is other then pro, let me know so I can give you the appropriate file.

I had already made and edited the appropriate file myself, but thanks anyway. As for the bat file, i should just replace the entire 'Using System Preparation Tool' step with just running your file, right? Just to be clear.

While i do appreciate the help by the way, i might not end up using the method you're suggesting, Since using a single SSD without a HDD might be easier for me. I'll still keep your help bookmarked though, since it sounds useful and interesting.

 

[SeanHL]

Since cost is an issue, I would got with Option 3.There was an endurance test recently that showed the 840 EVO lasting up to 600TB of writes, although by then it was wearing out blocks (SSDs' equivalent to HDD sectors)—that started at 200TB of writes—and didn't last much longer after that. Keep in mind this was an 840 EVO; the current 850 EVOs are better drives. The upshot of this is, as long as you don't do a lot of heavy writing (such as commercial video rendering) or something stupid, such as daily defragging (you should never defrag an SSD except, maybe, once every two or three years), you will most likely never wear out the SSD before you upgrade to newer technology.

Keep in mind the review you linked was for the older 840 EVO. The current 850 EVOs have a five year, 150TBW (TB of Writes) warranty, much better than the 840 EVOs.

Keep in mind that any drive, no matter the quality, can fail prematurely; that's why they have warranties. The better drives are just less likely for that to happen.

Alos keep in mind that, since any drive can fail without warning at any time, backups are imperative! Be sure to allow for backup drives in your budget (although you can less expensive 5400rpm HDDs for backups; that's what I used to do).

Great. I'm buying the third option then. Thanks very much, it's a load off my mind.

 

[SeanHL]

Before i go, i do have one last question:

What if i want to move the SSD to a new pc in the far future? I have found guides on how to clear the data, but all of them require me to be able to have the SSD in an already running PC. Could i just clear the SSD while it is still in a soon-to-be-replaced PC? I'm aware it would clear the OS, but would it then be ready to use in a new install?

 

[Megahertz07]

In my opinion, you don't need a bigger SSD than 120G that cost US$50. A 500G 850 EVO cost US$180.

When you move \Users from the SSD to the HDD all users temp, browser cache etc are also moved. This files are always changing and writing to the SSD.
If you see the SSD.txt file, I also move the virtual memory to the HDD.

To clean a SSD is the same as to clean a HDD. On the new computer, boot from the installation disk, go to Install - Advanced - Delete all partitions and abort to keep it clean (raw) or create new - proceed to install win on the new computer.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

In my opinion, you don't need a bigger SSD than 120G that cost US$50. A 500G 850 EVO cost US$180.

When you move \Users from the SSD to the HDD all users temp, browser cache etc are also moved. This files are always changing and writing to the SSD.
If you see the SSD.txt file, I also move the virtual memory to the HDD.

To clean a SSD is the same as to clean a HDD. On the new computer, boot from the installation disk, go to Install - Advanced - Delete all partitions and abort to keep it clean (raw) or create new - proceed to install win on the new computer.

SeanHL has already stated he is a gamer so having extra room on the SSD is desirable so he can put his most frequently accessed games on the SSD.

It's not necessary to move the entire Users folder to the HDD. In fact, it could create problems down the road. It's better to just leave it on the C: drive and just drag the Documents, Music, Pictures, and Videos folders to the HDD. Without those last four folders in the Users folder, the remaining amount of writes going into the Users folder has little to no discernible impact on total SSD write life.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Before i go, i do have one last question:

What if i want to move the SSD to a new pc in the far future? I have found guides on how to clear the data, but all of them require me to be able to have the SSD in an already running PC. Could i just clear the SSD while it is still in a soon-to-be-replaced PC? I'm aware it would clear the OS, but would it then be ready to use in a new install?

It depends on just how thoroughly you need to clean the SSD. If you are going to reinstall in a new machine and do a clean install of the OS onto it, just pull it out of the old machine, install it in the new machine, then let the OS installation media install the OS over the old one. It will reformat the drive for you. If you are going to retire that SSD, use the new machine to Secure Erase the SSD, using the SSDs support software (in the case of Samung's SSDs, the software is called Magician).

Frankly, if it's several years down the road before you move to a new machine, I would use a new SSD in the computer rather than an outdated one.

 

[SeanHL]

It depends on just how thoroughly you need to clean the SSD. If you are going to reinstall in a new machine and do a clean install of the OS onto it, just pull it out of the old machine, install it in the new machine, then let the OS installation media install the OS over the old one. It will reformat the drive for you. If you are going to retire that SSD, use the new machine to Secure Erase the SSD, using the SSDs support software (in the case of Samung's SSDs, the software is called Magician).

Frankly, if it's several years down the road before you move to a new machine, I would use a new SSD in the computer rather than an outdated one.

Allrighy. The drive should arrive tomorrow, and i've marked the thread as solved. Thanks for all your input!

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Allrighy. The drive should arrive tomorrow, and i've marked the thread as solved. Thanks for all your input!

Good luck and enjoy your new toy drive (the "new" on my new toys SSDs I bought last month hasn't worn off yet!).

 

[SeanHL]

I'm having to ask you guys another question, since i've been looking into the section of the help topic (SSD Tweaks and Optimizations in Windows 7) where you need to check if the ATA/ATAPI ACHI controller is set to use trim, and ran across a bit of an issue (note: i have not tried to install the SSD yet, i'm just researching things before i do).

Firstly, i'm using an intel chipset, but the download link the help topic points me to (Download RAID: Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology for Intel Desktop Boards) does not feature compatibility for my board. I've seen something about a program called Samsung Magician (of which version 4.5 is included on a cd with the drive), however, and i was wondering if this program also takes care of the drivers. The 850 EVO doesn't seem to have a download link for them on samsung's website.

Samsung Magician also takes care of something called overprovisioning, which is something i've not seen mentioned in either the help topic or in this one. Should i install the program? Some people say it causes issues with steam games and other things. On the other hand, some people say their machine won't work without it. This topic has both:
Does anyone make use of the Samsung Magician SSD software? - MOBO | RAM | CPU | HDD | SSD | Desktops | Laptops - The AVSIM Community

I'm probably overthinking all this. It's just that the help file now seems to contradict what i need to do in some ways, since supporting software seems to have advanced to take care of some of the issues that topic tries to solve.

 

[Megahertz07]

Samsung Magician is more part of the problem than the solution. Don't use it.

read post 2 System cache - all drives?

 

[SeanHL]

Samsung Magician is more part of the problem than the solution. Don't use it.

read post 2 System cache - all drives?

But then how do i get the drivers? There doesn't seem to be any way to do it, and i'm not so sure if the 'update drivers' option in device management will actually work in my case, since the samsung website doesn't seem to have the appropriate files.

I understand how to enable TRIM. It's getting the right drivers that's the problem.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Samsung Magician is more part of the problem than the solution. Don't use it.

read post 2 System cache - all drives?

I've never had a problem with Magican.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I'm having to ask you guys another question, since i've been looking into the section of the help topic (SSD Tweaks and Optimizations in Windows 7) where you need to check if the ATA/ATAPI ACHI controller is set to use trim, and ran across a bit of an issue (note: i have not tried to install the SSD yet, i'm just researching things before i do).

Firstly, i'm using an intel chipset, but the download link the help topic points me to (Download RAID: Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology for Intel Desktop Boards) does not feature compatibility for my board. I've seen something about a program called Samsung Magician (of which version 4.5 is included on a cd with the drive), however, and i was wondering if this program also takes care of the drivers. The 850 EVO doesn't seem to have a download link for them on samsung's website.

Samsung Magician also takes care of something called overprovisioning, which is something i've not seen mentioned in either the help topic or in this one. Should i install the program? Some people say it causes issues with steam games and other things. On the other hand, some people say their machine won't work without it. This topic has both:
Does anyone make use of the Samsung Magician SSD software? - MOBO | RAM | CPU | HDD | SSD | Desktops | Laptops - The AVSIM Community

I'm probably overthinking all this. It's just that the help file now seems to contradict what i need to do in some ways, since supporting software seems to have advanced to take care of some of the issues that topic tries to solve.

Unless you are planning to use an SSD to cache an HDD (I don't recommend caching, btw), you don't really need IRST (Intel Rapid Storage Technology) installed on your computer. IRST is normally supplied with your MOBO's other drivers if the MOBO has the ability to use IRST. The disk that comes with Samsung SSDs will not have any "drivers" on it because you don't need any.

Magician is a utility that comes with Samsung SSDs. It's use is optional since there are programs that can be used instead to accomplish the same things other than, maybe, changing overprovisioning. However, you do not need to worry about overprovisioning. SSDs come from the factory already overprovisioned and there is no need to increase the amount of it and it would be unwise to reduce it.

I've never had a problem with Magician on the three computers I have installed it on. However, it's always possible for any program to interfere with another program. If you find Magician does cause problems, you can either avoid running it while the program it doesn't get along with is running or just simply remove it.