Replacing A Router

[seekermeister]

Since I having to RMA my Belkin router, I want to replace it with an N band router that is compatible with Windows 7. I've been browsing through the W7 Compatibility List, but with so many choices, I need something to narrow down my focus. Looking at other thread similar to this, it is typical that the recommendations that one may get are based on personal preferences, which are probably not based on a broad experience. Therefore, rather than any specific router, I need parameters that would make choosing the best router a little easier. The WCL makes it easy to find routers that will work, but with 111 possibilities what factors will whittle this list down?

 

[osholt]

There are several factors you should look for:
Clients (how many devices you want connected to your router at one time)
Band (whether you have equipment which supports 5GHz WiFi opposed to 2.4GHz, 5GHz is supposedly better at penetrating walls plus there is less interference on this wave length)
Cost (Do I need to explain this one?)
Extra features (special stuff such as printer serving, hard drive serving, secondary guest networks etc.)
Interface and customisability (If you're a serial Port forwarder like me (no pun intended ;)) then interface and ease of use is everything.)

The Windows 7 compatibility list is only the tip of the iceberg, theoretically (and in practice) all N routers are compatible with Windows 7.

I hope this helps narrow your search, it's hard to go wrong with this sort of thing.

Oli

 

[seekermeister]

Your suggestion about bandwidth brings up a question...I'm RMAing my Belkin router, but keeping the network adapter. Since the router is only 2.4GZs, I'm sure the adapter is also. Therefore I shall need to get a router with the same bandwidth...right?

Extra features throws me some, because I don't know their value and don't want to cram like a student prepping for finals, because I want to make a fairly quick decision. Of what you mentioned, I can strike off guest network, leaving only printer and harddrive servers. I think that I can eliminate the printer server, because I had no problem acessing the printer from either of my rigs on the network without it. What is harddrive server? Is that simply to connect to a remote harddrive?

While you say that all N routers are compatible, I noticed on the WCL that some do not require drivers and are automatically installed. Considering the problems that I have had in the past with driver compatibility, that sounds good to me.

I guess what it boils down to is getting the router that is most reliable for a simple LAN.

 

[osholt]

Your suggestion about bandwidth brings up a question...I'm RMAing my Belkin router, but keeping the network adapter. Since the router is only 2.4GZs, I'm sure the adapter is also. Therefore I shall need to get a router with the same bandwidth...right?

If you have a 2.4GHz card then you will need a 2.4GHz router. Some routers (such as the Apple Airport Extreme) support 2.4GHz and 5GHz simultaneously which should future proof the technology your router.

Another advantage of using 5GHz opposed to 2.4GHz is that if you have a 5GHz only network most average punters who try to access your WiFi will not be able to find it even if you broadcast your SSiD so in some respects it is also more secure.

This will sound very obvious but you have to have an N compatible WLAN card to access an N WiFi network.

I guess what it boils down to is getting the router that is most reliable for a simple LAN.

From my experience the simplest and also one of the most convenient, cheapest and portable routers is the Apple Airport Express. Up until yesterday in fact I was using it as my third router and during the year it was in use it didn't let me down. I would NEVER recommend this as a primary router for anyone who wants to fiddle with settings because it is not the most flexible piece of kit in terms of port forwarding etc. although this is just my opinion.

I hope I've helped.

Oli

 

[seekermeister]

I've been pondering this router:

http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-E3000-High-Performance-Wireless-N-Router/dp/B003B48UQ8

It's W7 Logo, and the specs seem good, but besides the fact that it's price is more than I wanted to spend, I'm concerned about several things. First, if it will get along with my Belkin network adapter? Are six internal antennas really equal to 2 or 3 external ones? Is there some factor that I'm overlooking that would make me regret buying this router?

 

[osholt]

I've been pondering this router:

Amazon.com: Cisco-Linksys E3000 High-Performance Wireless-N Router: Electronics

It's W7 Logo, and the specs seem good, but besides the fact that it's price is more than I wanted to spend, I'm concerned about several things. First, if it will get along with my Belkin network adapter? Are six internal antennas really equal to 2 or 3 external ones? Is there some factor that I'm overlooking that would make me regret buying this router?

I'm 99% sure that this router will work with your Belkin Wireless card; I'd stay away from WPA2 Security though just to be safe because many older cards really don't like it.

6 Internal Antennas may well be equal or greater than 3 external ones, personally I've never had any problems with routers that use internal antennas compared to the ones with external antennas, they all seam to reach the same distance in my house.
After reading some of the reviews of it broadcast area and reliability do not seam to be problems with this at all so I think you're safe in that respect.
Another thing you have to remember is that 'N' signals travel further than 'G' signals or at least that's what it said on the box of my last Netgear router and they haven't lied to me so far.

In terms of factors you have over looked there are 2 things I can see:

The software interface that is supplied is hugely limited and thus requires you to use the web interface which after reading the reviews is not the most intuitive or responsive thing ever.
For many people who don't fiddle with router settings too often this won't be a problem but for people like me, this would be a key make or break point.

Will you really utilise all of what this router has to offer?
Simultaneous dual band is a feature which I think is necessary for future proofing so having that is fair enough.
Guest networking is a nice feature to have but how often do you have guests round who want to connect to your WiFi connection anyway?
I think I saw something about a home FTP server but I may be wrong, would you use that?
I'm not trying to put you off, I'm just trying to point out that you'd be paying for features you may never use.

To be fair $150 (£100) for a router with specs this high from a brand you can trust is well worth it in my opinion, but that's just my opinion.

I hope this is of any use to you and that I've cleared up at least some of your concerns.

Oli

 

[seekermeister]

I'm 99% sure that this router will work with your Belkin Wireless card; I'd stay away from WPA2 Security though just to be safe because many older cards really don't like it.

The adapter is not a card, it is Belkin's newest USB adapter, so I don't think that there would be a problem with WPA2, unless there was some kind of compatibility issue between brands.

6 Internal Antennas may well be equal or greater than 3 external ones, personally I've never had any problems with routers that use internal antennas compared to the ones with external antennas, they all seam to reach the same distance in my house.
After reading some of the reviews of it broadcast area and reliability do not seam to be problems with this at all so I think you're safe in that respect.

I think that you are right. Transmission distance isn't really an issue, because the router and adapter are never going to be more than one room apart. I was thinking in terms of signal penetration and bandwidth, because streaming media will be their primary workload. I guess it just feels strange, because everything that I have had before had external antennas. I wonder why some such equipment is external and some is internal...maybe just to appease someone like me.

Another thing you have to remember is that 'N' signals travel further than 'G' signals or at least that's what it said on the box of my last Netgear router and they haven't lied to me so far.

In terms of factors you have over looked there are 2 things I can see:

The software interface that is supplied is hugely limited and thus requires you to use the web interface which after reading the reviews is not the most intuitive or responsive thing ever.
For many people who don't fiddle with router settings too often this won't be a problem but for people like me, this would be a key make or break point.

This is an aspect that I hadn't thought about. I remember reading that it has some kind of software interface, but nothing in detail. My old ZyXel and the Belkin that I just returned only had a browser interface (which may be partially the reason that the Belkin failed, because after rebooting the PC, hoping to fix a problem when became extremely slow, I could no longer access it at all.

Will you really utilise all of what this router has to offer?
Simultaneous dual band is a feature which I think is necessary for future proofing so having that is fair enough.
Guest networking is a nice feature to have but how often do you have guests round who want to connect to your WiFi connection anyway?
I think I saw something about a home FTP server but I may be wrong, would you use that?
I'm not trying to put you off, I'm just trying to point out that you'd be paying for features you may never use.

No, I really don't need those extra features. What caught my eye was that they said that this router's strong point was streaming media, which is exactly what I'm interested in.

EDIT: Thinking further about the dual band function, I agree that this is something that I want for future proofing, but the term "simutaneous" bothers me some, because it sounds as though it will always be broadcasting on both bands. That would mean that even though I might be working in the higher frequency, partly in hopes of greater security, someone could still hack the system in the lower frequency band. I like that idea of being able to manually switch between bands, only operating in one or the other.

To be fair $150 (£100) for a router with specs this high from a brand you can trust is well worth it in my opinion, but that's just my opinion.

I hope this is of any use to you and that I've cleared up at least some of your concerns.


Oli

I don't doubt that the router is worth it's price to someone, I'm just trying to decide whether it is worth it's price to me. If there is a cheaper router than would have equal performance with streaming media, and have the reliability that I hope for, I not against the idea of saving a few dollars. But, at the same time, I know that trying to save money sometimes causes more problems in the end.

I definitely appreciate your comments, for they are helping me to define my focus.

 

[osholt]

EDIT: Thinking further about the dual band function, I agree that this is something that I want for future proofing, but the term "simutaneous" bothers me some, because it sounds as though it will always be broadcasting on both bands. That would mean that even though I might be working in the higher frequency, partly in hopes of greater security, someone could still hack the system in the lower frequency band. I like that idea of being able to manually switch between bands, only operating in one or the other.

As far as I'm aware you can run 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz simultaneously or just one frequency and change it when needed.

The only alternative I can recommend with confidence would be a Netgear Ethernet over power setup (http://www.netgear.com/Products/PowerlineNetworking/PowerlineEthernetAdapters/XE104.aspx) and then create an ad hoc network from your PC as a wireless network. I find this to be much more reliable than conventional WiFi. This setup suits my very specific needs very well but it obviously isn't for everyone and for every situation.

Thank you for feedback on my posts and you are most welcome.

Oli

 

[seekermeister]

As far as I'm aware you can run 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz simultaneously or just one frequency and change it when needed.

If this is true, it would be satisfactory, I just don't want to broadcast simutaneously on both bands at once. I suppose that might be useful if networking a variety of devices requiring both bands, but I don't expect that I would do so.

The only alternative I can recommend with confidence would be a Netgear Ethernet over power setup (85 Mbps Powerline 4-Port Ethernet Adapter) and then create an ad hoc network from your PC as a wireless network. I find this to be much more reliable than conventional WiFi. This setup suits my very specific needs very well but it obviously isn't for everyone and for every situation.

I have not looked very deeply into a power line system such as this, because I got the impression that it would be more subject to interference from other devices on the circuit. For example, my Rid x pest control, which generates signals on the circuit in pulses. Living in an apt. complex, I wouldn't know or have any control over what my neighbors might have plugged in, which also might intefere.

I also noticed that the device that you linked only has 85Mbps bandwidth, which I doubt would be sufficient for streaming media. At least the router that I'm looking at has 300Mbps, and the ads give the impression that might be needed. When I had the Belkin running, I did notice that it often spiked at close to that figure downloading media, but that was in pulses, rather than continuous. Of course, streaming over WiFi is a different story, so I'm not certain that much bandwidth is really necessary or not.

Considering the fact that I have struck out twice on two different attempts to accomplish what I want, I hope that the third time is the charm, and I don't want to increase the odds against that by skimping anywhere that might effect it.

Something that I have also been considering is replacing the Belkin with another almost like it, because the one that I had was a version 1000, and there is a version 2000 also available. Both versions have the exact same model # and appearance, and I haven't found any difference in specs, but I would think that the difference in versions indicates some improvement somewhere.

The only reasons that I'm considering this is because I'm thinking that the odds of the router and the adapter getting along with each other are better...plus I like the display on the Belkin better than anything that I have found elsewhere, because among other things, it gives a real time indication of internet activity and strength. I'm not certain that this would be the same for network activity though.

Curiously, when I have asked several retailers of the Belkin, most of them wasn't aware that there is two versions available. I even had one that asked whether I was certain that this was true, because he didn't find any information about this on the Belkin website. I only became aware of it when checking for driver and firmware downloads.

 

[osholt]

In answer to your question about speed, you can stream full 1080p with 7.1 surround sound in less than 20Mb/s so that wouldn't be a problem. That 300Mbps tag is its theoretical maximum, you're more likely to get at most 150Mbps via WiFi and unless you live live in South Koorea I doubt you'll have an Internet speed passing 20 or 30% or that 150. In short no problem either way the only determining factor is reliability.

In terms of routers again it's all down to personal preference or as my friend once put 'brand loyalty and shiny-ness'. The only big variables are the ones we've discussed.

Again if you're worried about your adapter not working you really shouldn't, all devices certified to work with WiFi have to under the specifications work with all other WiFi devices (on the same band). It's like saying I have a plug and play generic Sony USB 2.0 HDD which only works on computers manufactured by Sony; that just wouldn't happen and the same is true with WiFi.

Oli

 

[zzz2496]

If you're comfy with Belkin, go with Belkin - you don't need assurance from others for that. I like Cisco-Linksys products, and the one you linked is one of my favorite, but that was before I use my current router... If you're going to do a lot of streaming, I suggest your use wired Gigabit LAN - it's far more reliable, and very fast too. Wifi, what ever the advertised speeds are, will almost always slower than wired, because it's using radio waves. Radio waves aren't reliable enough. By the way, rather than you buy an expensive all in one device like that, why don't you buy a stand alone router, an 8 port gigabit switch (non-blocking of course) and an Access point. It's cheaper in the long term I think.

zzz2496

 

[seekermeister]

In answer to your question about speed, you can stream full 1080p with 7.1 surround sound in less than 20Mb/s so that wouldn't be a problem. That 300Mbps tag is its theoretical maximum, you're more likely to get at most 150Mbps via WiFi and unless you live live in South Koorea I doubt you'll have an Internet speed passing 20 or 30% or that 150. In short no problem either way the only determining factor is reliability.

So, I guess that them touting the extra bandwidth is just a matter of marketing...that wouldn't be surprising.

In terms of routers again it's all down to personal preference or as my friend once put 'brand loyalty and shiny-ness'. The only big variables are the ones we've discussed.

So far, I have no brand loyalty. The only router that I have had that didn't have problems was my ZyXel. The only reason that I'm replacing it, is because it has a lesser bandwidth...108Mbps on Super G, but from what you have said, that should be sufficient.

I did tinker with it some last night, but I was having problems configuring it. When I first set it up, long ago, there was no problems, so I think that it is just something that I have forgotten, but I never did use it for WiFI, only hardwired. I couldn't get it's signal to appear on the Belkin adapter.

Again if you're worried about your adapter not working you really shouldn't, all devices certified to work with WiFi have to under the specifications work with all other WiFi devices (on the same band). It's like saying I have a plug and play generic Sony USB 2.0 HDD which only works on computers manufactured by Sony; that just wouldn't happen and the same is true with WiFi.

Oli

The adapter has a button for "simple" connections, but that only seems to work with a Belkin router, so I guess that I can forget it.
When I get my mind set for it, I will tinker with it some more.

 

[seekermeister]

If you're comfy with Belkin, go with Belkin - you don't need assurance from others for that.

I never said that I was comfortable with Belkin. I couldn't because the only Belkin that I have had so far didn't work for me, and it died a premature death. That doesn't mean that all Belkins would be the same though.

I like Cisco-Linksys products, and the one you linked is one of my favorite, but that was before I use my current router... If you're going to do a lot of streaming, I suggest your use wired Gigabit LAN - it's far more reliable, and very fast too. Wifi, what ever the advertised speeds are, will almost always slower than wired, because it's using radio waves. Radio waves aren't reliable enough.

I have no doubt that you are right about a hardwired network being better than WiFi, but not only does that create a problem running the cables, I also have a very persnickity apt. manager that would probably give me problems about the cable, but if I continue to have problems with WiFi, I may risk that anyway.

By the way, rather than you buy an expensive all in one device like that, why don't you buy a stand alone router, an 8 port gigabit switch (non-blocking of course) and an Access point. It's cheaper in the long term I think.

zzz2496

These are ideas and terms that I really don't understand at this point. Aren't the routers that I have mentioned "stand alone"? They are separate from either the PC or modem. To really understand the switch and access point that you mentioned, I would need to read more, and my head is already spinning with what I have been trying to deal with.

 

[zzz2496]

I never said that I was comfortable with Belkin. I couldn't because the only Belkin that I have had so far didn't work for me, and it died a premature death. That doesn't mean that all Belkins would be the same though.

Oh, my apologies... I thought that you like Belkin products... sorry for that...

These are ideas and terms that I really don't understand at this point. Aren't the routers that I have mentioned "stand alone"? They are separate from either the PC or modem. To really understand the switch and access point that you mentioned, I would need to read more, and my head is already spinning with what I have been trying to deal with.

See, in the enterprise class hardware - routers works just as it's intended, route. A switch does switching - very fast switching, with some redundancy features. An Access Point does just that, to become a base station bridging it's wired interface to it's wireless interface. Let me give you an example...
In my home network, I have 4 devices:

1. RB-450G Mikrotik router with 5 gigabit interface.
2. Cisco Linksys SD 2008 8 port gigabit switch (non-blocking).
3. An old Linksys WRT-54G acting as access point.
4. A Motorola DOCSIS modem, connecting me to my ISP.

Now, in case of network upgrades, If I need faster LAN, I just upgrade the switch to let's say 10G speeds. If I suddenly switches to DSL, all I need is replace the Motorola modem with a DSL modem. Should I need faster Wifi, I'll buy the new N Access Point, done... At the heart of all that, a Mikrotik router (680MHz Atheros CPU, 256MB DDR RAM, 512MB NAND Storage). That is overkill for a SOHO router, and it got 5 interfaces on it, should I have more than one internet connections, I can load balance every internet connection and have a large aggregate bandwidth at my disposal. That's the beauty of independent modular equipment... compared to "stand alone" consumer products... Once it's gone, you're done...

zzz2496

 

[seekermeister]

See, in the enterprise class hardware - routers works just as it's intended, route. A switch does switching - very fast switching, with some redundancy features. An Access Point does just that, to become a base station bridging it's wired interface to it's wireless interface. Let me give you an example...
In my home network, I have 4 devices:

1. RB-450G Mikrotik router with 5 gigabit interface.
2. Cisco Linksys SD 2008 8 port gigabit switch (non-blocking).
3. An old Linksys WRT-54G acting as access point.
4. A Motorola DOCSIS modem, connecting me to my ISP.

Now, in case of network upgrades, If I need faster LAN, I just upgrade the switch to let's say 10G speeds. If I suddenly switches to DSL, all I need is replace the Motorola modem with a DSL modem. Should I need faster Wifi, I'll buy the new N Access Point, done... At the heart of all that, a Mikrotik router (680MHz Atheros CPU, 256MB DDR RAM, 512MB NAND Storage). That is overkill for a SOHO router, and it got 5 interfaces on it, should I have more than one internet connections, I can load balance every internet connection and have a large aggregate bandwidth at my disposal. That's the beauty of independent modular equipment... compared to "stand alone" consumer products... Once it's gone, you're done...

zzz2496

I have a glimmering of what you said, but for me to really understand, it would take either a lot more talking or reading, and I'm really just wanting a simple method to accomplish what I want...streaming media to another computer in another room. I doubt that I would need the versatility that your system offers, and it sounds more expensive with the variety of components than what I'm trying to do now. If I can make a regular router and adapter work as they should, I would be happy.

 

[seekermeister]

I have been tinkering with trying to reconnect my old ZyXel router, but I'm running into the same problems that I did with the Belkin. I connect the cable from the modem to the WAN port on the router, and a cable from the ethernet port on the PC to LAN1, reset the modem and router, but am not able to connect to the internet. When I run the Windows troubleshooter, it says that it can't connect to the DNS server, but when I try to enter the router's wizard, it says that it can't, because there is a network problem. If I disconnect the router and go directly from the modem to the PC, it works as it should.

This would lead one to think that there is a problem with the modem, except that this modem worked fine before trying the Belkin. The fact that it works one way and not the other, makes me believe that the cables are okay, so all that's left that I can think of is that something has gone haywire with the modem. Since the modem is the one provided by the cable company, I would have to arrange a service call with them, but if the problem weren't with the modem, that would be an expensive and wasted expense. It seems that something is playing games with me.

 

[seekermeister]

I finally got the network restored on the ZyXel, but I'm still having the same problem with getting the WiFi to work. I used the WiFi wizard to set it on the primary, flipped the WiFi switch to on, but the neither the Belkin or Windows wizard sees any signal coming from the router.

I'm thinking hard about ordering the Cisco E3000, but I really don't want to spend that much, only to have the same problem a third time. Since the wizards do see the signals of other WiFi nearby, I'm assuming that means that the adapter is working on the secondary and with the network working, and the WiFi setup appearing so easy on the primary, I'm guessing that there is simply a defect in the router's WiFi function, or the Belkin router can't see a Super G signal, or Belkin and ZyXel don't like each other.

One curiosity remains...that being that when I first flip the WiFi on with the switch on the back of the ZyXel, a bubble alert appears momentarily on the secondary rig, saying that a network cable is unplugged. This confuses me, because there is no WiFi cable involved.

 

[WindowsStar]

seekermeister, to chime in late, I have used the Cisco-Linksys and they work perfectly. Never had an issue worth the extra money. Cisco is the leader in routers so you should not have a problem and they have excellent support if you need it.

 

[seekermeister]

Thans, it's never too late to ad a bit of encouragement...I can use all that I can get. I'm still waiting on my Seagate RMA, so that I can install W7 on it, and try what I have again. Just prior to the HD failure, I did manage to get the old Belkin to at least see a WiFi device on the router, although neither computer was accessible to the other. I kind of want to narrow the field of possibilities, before making a final decision.

 

[WindowsStar]

All the Windows 7 machines will see each other without much effort. However if you have a mix like I do of Windows XP and Windows 7 then you will need to NOT use (disable) HomeGroup and only use Workgroups so they can all see each other correctly. Using workgroups takes a bit more work but is well worth it. If needed, I am sure there is a tutorial here on how to do it.