Why are 74% of business computers still running XP

[McSeven]

Well WXP runs very well. So why spend thousands of dollars for W7.

 

[pparks1]

Well WXP runs very well. So why spend thousands of dollars for W7.

Exactly, coupled with user training and applications that may or may not run properly....there is very little advantage to upgrading for many businesses.

 

[JonM33]

You speak from limited experience. To base your blanket conclusion on "poor programming" is absurd.

Woah, 12 years working in IT is not limited, buddy. I'm not a programmer but I have been through numerous OS migrations from desktops to servers/domains. I have seen Windows XP last far longer than any OS purely because developers write applications for it. The same goes for website applications. People write them specifically for IE or use specific, older versions of Java, etc.

Well WXP runs very well. So why spend thousands of dollars for W7.

Better functionality, control, security and support? Take a guess at how many Group Policy additions were made between Windows XP and Windows 7. For a system admin and IT support perspective? That's a dream come true.

 

[Win7User512]

You speak from limited experience. To base your blanket conclusion on "poor programming" is absurd.

Woah, 12 years working in IT is not limited, buddy. I'm not a programmer but I have been through numerous OS migrations from desktops to servers/domains. I have seen Windows XP last far longer than any OS purely because developers write applications for it. The same goes for website applications. People write them specifically for IE or use specific, older versions of Java, etc.

With all due respect, experience can be considered limited when talking about a subject you are not intimately involved (in this case programming). Kinda like me telling Stephen Hawking about the universe. I love physics, but I (and most people) am not on his level.

I've tried to have a spirited debate without coming off disrespectfully. I hope I have succeeded.

I do understand your position and in many cases it is true, but not in all. That was simply my point. You can write code with the best practices in the world but once the technology stops supporting it, you must rewrite/find another solution.

Cheers!

 

[DrWho]

Experience? Not blowing my own horn, but if you don't know DOS you don't have a knowledge base for which every other OS has been built on. Talk about a viable OS that has outlasted everything else.......
MS still silently supports it, by putting DOS capability into every OS it writes, including Windows 7.

I built my first PC back in ~1980 (YUP, that's 30 years ago) and installed DOS 2.0 on it.
I bought every upgrade to DOS up till DOS 6.22 and then made the jump to Windows 95. But even with all the upgrades to Windows, I still do a lot with DOS.
Even when running Win-7, I still rely heavily on DOS for simple everyday jobs.
Like my own cleanup.bat program that runs from my Startup folder on ever boot, to clean out all the temp files and other assorted junk from the day before.
That prevents Garbage Overflow. I install that little batch file for every one of my customers, to help keep their PC's clean and running more efficiently. It's like getting FREE Maid Service for your PC.

So if we have to pin a long-life medal on some OS, it most certainly has to be MSDOS.

I hope y'all accept this thought in the joyful manner in which I present it.

Y'all have a great day now, Y'hear?

The Doctor

 

[Borg 386]

I agree with the explanation given by most people here, money.

If the system is still working good and fulfills the needs, businesses don't want to pony up the $$$$$$.

Times are tough....

 

[Topi]

One reason besides money is probably that many think "Why fix something that isn't broken?" That's why companies don't have a valid reason to move to something new and take time to learn it all.

And there is also Windows 8 coming. If Windows 8 comes out between 2012-2014, companies can skip Windows 7 and go straight to Windows 8. That saves money, then they have skipped 2 operating systems and saved money on the way.

But in my opinion now or at least when SP1 comes out is the time to ditch XP and go for Windows 7, but still I understand why many won't do that.

 

[Win7User512]

Experience? Not blowing my own horn, but if you don't know DOS you don't have a knowledge base for which every other OS has been built on. Talk about a viable OS that has outlasted everything else.......
MS still silently supports it, by putting DOS capability into every OS it writes, including Windows 7.

I built my first PC back in ~1980 (YUP, that's 30 years ago) and installed DOS 2.0 on it.
I bought every upgrade to DOS up till DOS 6.22 and then made the jump to Windows 95. But even with all the upgrades to Windows, I still do a lot with DOS.
Even when running Win-7, I still rely heavily on DOS for simple everyday jobs.
Like my own cleanup.bat program that runs from my Startup folder on ever boot, to clean out all the temp files and other assorted junk from the day before.
That prevents Garbage Overflow. I install that little batch file for every one of my customers, to help keep their PC's clean and running more efficiently. It's like getting FREE Maid Service for your PC.

So if we have to pin a long-life medal on some OS, it most certainly has to be MSDOS.

Do you think the "Disk Cleanup" from a drive properties dialog is as good as your prog?

I've always wondered about how good that thing is.

 

[CarlTR6]

So if we have to pin a long-life medal on some OS, it most certainly has to be MSDOS.

Hear! Hear! Very well said. Having learned MSDOS pretty thoroughly in the day still comes in handy.

 

[JonM33]

With all due respect, experience can be considered limited when talking about a subject you are not intimately involved (in this case programming). Kinda like me telling Stephen Hawking about the universe. I love physics, but I (and most people) am not on his level.

I've tried to have a spirited debate without coming off disrespectfully. I hope I have succeeded.

I do understand your position and in many cases it is true, but not in all. That was simply my point. You can write code with the best practices in the world but once the technology stops supporting it, you must rewrite/find another solution.

Cheers!

I would agree that I have no experience as a developer. At most I have copied and pasted code for PHP portals and that's about it. You should target your statement next time instead of assuming that I have limited experience. That is a general statement and quite untrue.

I'm speaking of the side of technical support and system administration. I have had to work with developers to figure out why their software won't work under a heavily restricted environment.

I have worked under situations where Group Policy was too restrictive on Windows XP workstations. The developer fix? Bypass that and give the user's local admin rights. That's not a fix, that's a flaw in their ability to program the software correctly.

When trying to run the software on Windows Vista? It refused to work at all through UAC. That had to be disabled and (of course) the user given local admin rights.

That's lazy programming right there. Of course that was in-house. I have also worked for a company that strictly used vendors for software. They would go to the vendor to try to figure out why the software wouldn't work with Windows 7 or IE8. The vendor's answer? We only support Windows XP.

In my book, that's poor programming.

 

[Layback Bear]

Not being a computer expert, programmer or any kind of I.T. but some knowledge of business. XP-PRO SP3 is great and used by most business and the programs work well with XP-PRO. There people are train with this system and programs. That being said. XP looks like it will be around for a while longer. From the business end investigating into Windows 7, which 7 should be gotten, training, other programs that will be needed, upgrading equipment. Yes there is a cost to doing this. The time will come that a upgrade will have to be done. If a business starting upgrading there equipment now the cost will be spread out over a period of time. Having there I.T. people checking on new programs that will be needed and the cost and of course the training of other personal. This will help spreading the cost over a period of time. XP is on it's way out and Windows 7 is on it's way in, that's just a fact weather one likes it or not. Being ready for the day when windows 7 is a must only makes good business sense to me.

 

[ITChick]

In my organization we are actually migrating everyone this summer to Windows 7 Pro with Office 2007. In fact I just got back from a trip to one of our campuses where I switched all the office staff. Lots more trips planned this summer so I will be a very busy lady Very exciting times! I love my job!

 

[DrWho]

Even when running Win-7, I still rely heavily on DOS for simple everyday jobs.
Like my own cleanup.bat program that runs from my Startup folder on ever boot, to clean out all the temp files and other assorted junk from the day before.
That prevents Garbage Overflow. I install that little batch file for every one of my customers, to help keep their PC's clean and running more efficiently. It's like getting FREE Maid Service for your PC.
So if we have to pin a long-life medal on some OS, it most certainly has to be MSDOS.

Do you think the "Disk Cleanup" from a drive properties dialog is as good as your prog?

I've always wondered about how good that thing is.

As presented, the stock Windows Disk Cleanup program is 'So-So'.
Yes, I do use it, but to make it work much better, go for the "Extended Disk Cleanup" version of the program. Use this shortcut, for the extended version.
%SystemRoot%\System32\Cmd.exe /c Cleanmgr /sageset:35 & Cleanmgr /sagerun:35

Just copy and paste that line into a NEW Desktop Shortcut.
Run it weekly as part of a regular HD maintenance routine.
Then do a defrag.
* The first time you run it, you will have to check all the things that you want the program to delete. I check everything but the "Setup Log" files. You will need those if you ever want to DE-Install a program.

Obviously, it can only address areas that are present in every computer.
My Cleanup.bat program addresses areas not addressed by Disk Cleanup and that are peculiar to my own PC. Like the AVG Virus Vault or my Firefox cache folder. (Temporary Internet Files, generated by Firefox)

AVG also creates tons of temp files..... I add that folder to my cleanup program as well. The actual name for that folder can be different for each PC.
When I've shared my Cleanup.bat program with people over the internet, I've always encouraged them to open it in Wordpad and edit it to include the specific junk file folders on their own PC or to delete any line that would delete something that they want to keep.

It's difficult to ever use just one program to really Clean Out your HD, because every PC is just a little bit different, especially after the user starts installing programs that create their own junk files.

I hope that has properly answered your question.

Good Luck,
the Doctor

 

[DrWho]

In my organization we are actually migrating everyone this summer to Windows 7 Pro with Office 2007. In fact I just got back from a trip to one of our campuses where I switched all the office staff. Lots more trips planned this summer so I will be a very busy lady Very exciting times! I love my job!

I hope your experience with Office 2007 is better than mine. It's a monster and so big that I didn't even want it on my "C" drive, so I installed it on my storage partition, my "D" drive.

I was not happy with it at all, so I uninstalled it, using the windows UN-Installer.
Then, just for grins and giggles, I ran a registry cleaner + NTREGOpt on my registry.
The size of the registry was reduced by 30 megabytes. WOW! What Bloat!

I went back to Office 2003 which runs just great and does everything I need and with far less bloat.

I'll bet you do love your job. I had a similar job years ago as IT Specialist for the County. I also did all their computer and printer repairs. It can be very rewarding.

Good Luck,
The Doctor

 

[JonM33]

From the business end investigating into Windows 7, which 7 should be gotten, training, other programs that will be needed, upgrading equipment. Yes there is a cost to doing this. The time will come that a upgrade will have to be done. If a business starting upgrading there equipment now the cost will be spread out over a period of time.

Not sure if you have checked the minimum requirements for Windows 7: 1GHz CPU, 1GB RAM, 15GB hard drive space. Most companies (from my experience) probably use a tech refresh maybe every 3-5 years. The reasons are due to warranties expiring. Any computer that has came out in the last 3-5 years will easily meet the minimum requirements for Windows 7.

Having there I.T. people checking on new programs that will be needed and the cost and of course the training of other personal. This will help spreading the cost over a period of time. XP is on it's way out and Windows 7 is on it's way in, that's just a fact weather one likes it or not. Being ready for the day when windows 7 is a must only makes good business sense to me.

Developers have had opportunity to do this since the Beta for Windows 7 came out on MSDN. That was Jan 2009.

Windows 7 is actually very intuitive. Anyone that has been using Windows for the past 10 years can easily move to Windows 7. The thing that really requires training would have been Office 2007, which was a drastic layout and feature change from Office 2003. But there are easy online training guides from Microsoft.

Training - Microsoft Office

 

[Crunchy Doodle]

I can certainly understand how many people who hang out here have trouble understanding why a modern successful corporation, such as my employer, continues to use XP Pro and not upgrade to Windows 7 Pro. I'd estimate that 99% of the machines used here are W7 compatible. As someone pointed out, most of the systems we have are leased and are replaced every few years. The most lowly desktop system is a fairly modern Dell box of the most recent, or just previous models. That's not the problem. In simple terms, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have not seen a single application or software tool we use that needs Windows 7. XP works, why change?

At home, it's all Windows 7, even on the two old laptops my grandkids use when they visit.

Bye.

 

[JonM33]

Here's a good reason not to run Windows XP: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS10-042 - Critical: Vulnerability in Help and Support Center Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2229593)

Note how Windows 7 is not affected? Now these IT admins and support are going to need to push these updates through WSUS and ensure that they report successfully in SCCM. That's going to take additional time and money.

If they had migrated their systems to Windows 7? It wouldn't even be a worry.

 

[bjrichus]

Why still XP in so many corporates?

Cost yes, but it's not the only (or even the main) reason. For us much more important is a lack of third party software vendor support (yes, really).

We run several programs (for example, Cypress, Image Now) where support for "7" is only recent and still buggy or just not there yet!

Good example; We have a vendor that has only this week pulled a version of the main-line package they sell from general release due to it's high bug count (sorry "non-functioning Windows 7 compatibility" according to our support contact), and while we like the honesty from them (a lesson to yet be learned by several companies like Apple and Oracle), it means the pressure is on to find software that actually does work with "7" at the end of the current maintenance contract.

This also means we will have to be prepared to re-engineer code written by a team of about 20 people and all sorts of processes and procedures to handle the change in vendor.

Then we have to go through a procurement process, we have about 80 servers and around 7,000 client PC's (not all clients will be running Windows) ...

Oh yes, this is not about running "7" because it's new, or it's "better" (we think it is), or because we like it (we do), in our environment, "7" is not the only thing in town and the entire set up has to work with everything else.

If just one element doesn't the entire set up is screwed. Until we get another year of "7" out of the way (meaning ALL of our vendors are fully on-board with it), we will stay a mix of XP (80%) and "7" (20%) on the Windows desktop.

<sigh>...

 

[PhreePhly]

Why still XP in so many corporates?

Cost yes, but it's not the only (or even the main) reason. For us much more important is a lack of third party software vendor support (yes, really).

We run several programs (for example, Cypress, Image Now) where support for "7" is only recent and still buggy or just not there yet!

Good example; We have a vendor that has only this week pulled a version of the main-line package they sell from general release due to it's high bug count (sorry "non-functioning Windows 7 compatibility" according to our support contact), and while we like the honesty from them (a lesson to yet be learned by several companies like Apple and Oracle), it means the pressure is on to find software that actually does work with "7" at the end of the current maintenance contract.

This also means we will have to be prepared to re-engineer code written by a team of about 20 people and all sorts of processes and procedures to handle the change in vendor.

Then we have to go through a procurement process, we have about 80 servers and around 7,000 client PC's (not all clients will be running Windows) ...

Oh yes, this is not about running "7" because it's new, or it's "better" (we think it is), or because we like it (we do), in our environment, "7" is not the only thing in town and the entire set up has to work with everything else.

If just one element doesn't the entire set up is screwed. Until we get another year of "7" out of the way (meaning ALL of our vendors are fully on-board with it), we will stay a mix of XP (80%) and "7" (20%) on the Windows desktop.

<sigh>...

Question, have you found programs that work in Win7 x32 but not Win7 x64? This is something we have encountered, more often than not. many apps seem to be written to use libraries that don't handle the CPU entering into Long Mode when using a 64-bit OS. This leads to confusion to install Win7 x32 or x64, and now we need to support multiple setups. My company is planning on making the move to Win 7 this year, and I suspect it will be all 32-bit, just to avoid these issues. We will have a few workstations go 64-bit so that we can expose more RAM for GIS, CADD and Modelling software.

PhreePhly

 

[Win7User512]

Here's a good reason not to run Windows XP: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS10-042 - Critical: Vulnerability in Help and Support Center Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2229593)

Note how Windows 7 is not affected? Now these IT admins and support are going to need to push these updates through WSUS and ensure that they report successfully in SCCM. That's going to take additional time and money.

If they had migrated their systems to Windows 7? It wouldn't even be a worry.

That could be said about any arbitrary Windows version in the future. "Windows X has vulnerability Y and must need to be upgraded instead of patched."

Software is inherently flawed. There is no and will be no perfect software without bugs. Even when we get to quantum computing.