Why are 74% of business computers still running XP

[PhreePhly]

In my organization we are actually migrating everyone this summer to Windows 7 Pro with Office 2007. In fact I just got back from a trip to one of our campuses where I switched all the office staff. Lots more trips planned this summer so I will be a very busy lady Very exciting times! I love my job!

I hope your experience with Office 2007 is better than mine. It's a monster and so big that I didn't even want it on my "C" drive, so I installed it on my storage partition, my "D" drive.

I was not happy with it at all, so I uninstalled it, using the windows UN-Installer.
Then, just for grins and giggles, I ran a registry cleaner + NTREGOpt on my registry.
The size of the registry was reduced by 30 megabytes. WOW! What Bloat!

I went back to Office 2003 which runs just great and does everything I need and with far less bloat.

I'll bet you do love your job. I had a similar job years ago as IT Specialist for the County. I also did all their computer and printer repairs. It can be very rewarding.

Good Luck,
The Doctor

We too are moving from Office 2003 to Office 2007 and I can't wait. (I'm running Office 2010, but the rest of the company is stuck with 2003). First of all, 2007 is not much bigger than 2003 in terms of resource requirements. The new file formats, especially in Excel, are a godsend. Limiting worksheets to only 65k rows was killing us for some of our data analysis. In addition, the new file formats create files 10% the size of the old ones, so less strain on the e-mail servers.

In addition the Ribbon UI actually makes Office useful (2010 makes it even better).

And your comment about the registry growing 30MB. So what, the average hard drive is 500GB. Only a very small portion of the registry is ever loaded into memory, the rest is simply a database of settings for programs.

PhreePhly

 

[pparks1]

Here's a good reason not to run Windows XP: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS10-042 - Critical: Vulnerability in Help and Support Center Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2229593)

Note how Windows 7 is not affected? Now these IT admins and support are going to need to push these updates through WSUS and ensure that they report successfully in SCCM. That's going to take additional time and money.

If they had migrated their systems to Windows 7? It wouldn't even be a worry.

On the flip side, here is a remote code exploit that impacts Windows 7 64-bit only.
Microsoft Security Bulletin MS10-043 - Critical: Vulnerability in Canonical Display Driver Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2032276)

 

[JonM33]

That could be said about any arbitrary Windows version in the future. "Windows X has vulnerability Y and must need to be upgraded instead of patched."

Software is inherently flawed. There is no and will be no perfect software without bugs. Even when we get to quantum computing.

Q: Which version of Windows has had more critical updates in the last year since Windows 7 was released? Windows 7 or Windows XP?

The answer should tell you which version of Windows is better from an IT support perspective.

On the flip side, here is a remote code exploit that impacts Windows 7 64-bit only.
Microsoft Security Bulletin MS10-043 - Critical: Vulnerability in Canonical Display Driver Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2032276)

I doubt many companies are going to use x64 due to the higher system requirements.

 

[bjrichus]

Question, have you found programs that work in Win7 x32 but not Win7 x64? This is something we have encountered, more often than not. many apps seem to be written to use libraries that don't handle the CPU entering into Long Mode when using a 64-bit OS. This leads to confusion to install Win7 x32 or x64, and now we need to support multiple setups. My company is planning on making the move to Win 7 this year, and I suspect it will be all 32-bit, just to avoid these issues. We will have a few workstations go 64-bit so that we can expose more RAM for GIS, CADD and Modelling software.

PhreePhly

Anything that uses a hardware driver written more than about 4 years ago is most unlikely to have a (compatible or otherwise) 64bit driver.

Like: The old Cisco VPN (I use Cisco AnyConnect on "7" 64bit - see specs), I have the "7" Virtual PC software running as well where I run several things that would not work on "7" 64 bit...

Like: We have fax driver cards on several servers that work great in 32bit but are just never going to work in 64bit.

Like: The old Epson TWAIN scanner driver for the Perfection range. Never mind that there is software that will drive these scanners perfectly in Windows/7 64bit (VueScan)... Silly old Epson

You can also find 3rd party vendors promise support for a great deal. Just remember that third party software vendors always promise the world and frankly many of them are just selling futures.

That sounds like I am saying they are telling lies, which they are not "really" (oh alright, they are, but it's part of the S/W game), you just need to know what is shipping NOW and what they will ship NEXT (or the release after). Get a system set up to demo the complete solution - end to end - before signing on the line.

Good luck.

 

[PhreePhly]

Question, have you found programs that work in Win7 x32 but not Win7 x64? This is something we have encountered, more often than not. many apps seem to be written to use libraries that don't handle the CPU entering into Long Mode when using a 64-bit OS. This leads to confusion to install Win7 x32 or x64, and now we need to support multiple setups. My company is planning on making the move to Win 7 this year, and I suspect it will be all 32-bit, just to avoid these issues. We will have a few workstations go 64-bit so that we can expose more RAM for GIS, CADD and Modelling software.

PhreePhly

Anything that uses a hardware driver written more than about 4 years ago is most unlikely to have a (compatible or otherwise) 64bit driver.

Like: The old Cisco VPN (I use Cisco AnyConnect on "7" 64bit - see specs), I have the "7" Virtual PC software running as well where I run several things that would not work on "7" 64 bit...

Like: We have fax driver cards on several servers that work great in 32bit but are just never going to work in 64bit.

Like: The old Epson TWAIN scanner driver for the Perfection range. Never mind that there is software that will drive these scanners perfectly in Windows/7 64bit (VueScan)... Silly old Epson

You can also find 3rd party vendors promise support for a great deal. Just remember that third party software vendors always promise the world and frankly many of them are just selling futures.

That sounds like I am saying they are telling lies, which they are not "really" (oh alright, they are, but it's part of the S/W game), you just need to know what is shipping NOW and what they will ship NEXT (or the release after). Get a system set up to demo the complete solution - end to end - before signing on the line.

Good luck.

Yea, I understand the hardware issues, and that will always be there (we currently have a piece of equipment attached to a Win98 machine, as the vendor is long gone and a newer version of the control software was never written). One thing that Vista helped on was requiring that any driver vendor wishing for a MS certificate was required to submit both a 32 and a 64-bit version of the driver.

I was talking about stand-alone apps, as these are the most frustrating. Most of the 32/64 compatibility problems stem from poor programming practices. The one that really gets me is a piece of software that functions fine in every way, except you can't print from it (it's main function is to generate a pre-formatted document). The vendor used some printing widget that makes use of Win16 API calls. 32-bit windows can handle that, but 64-bit can't. They actually wrote the program in VB, but opted not to use the standard Win32 printing APIs.

 

[Win7User512]

That could be said about any arbitrary Windows version in the future. "Windows X has vulnerability Y and must need to be upgraded instead of patched."

Software is inherently flawed. There is no and will be no perfect software without bugs. Even when we get to quantum computing.

Q: Which version of Windows has had more critical updates in the last year since Windows 7 was released? Windows 7 or Windows XP?

The answer should tell you which version of Windows is better from an IT support perspective.

Well, Windows 7 has the patched XP legacy code...so those are no longer vulnerabilities...

On the flip side, here is a remote code exploit that impacts Windows 7 64-bit only.
Microsoft Security Bulletin MS10-043 - Critical: Vulnerability in Canonical Display Driver Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2032276)

I doubt many companies are going to use x64 due to the higher system requirements.

I know some. They are moving to Server 2008 R2. Which is basically the same as Windows 7 (x64).

 

[toughbook]

Every company I go into and start talking about OS systems in one way oe another I always ask them why are you still using XP? They all say the same thing....

Because XP works, the perception of moving to another OS is alot of work and expense.

The ONLY way MS is going to get XP on the shelf is to stop supporting it in anyway. Heck, I can still buy a brand new Toughbook with XP, Vista, or W7 on it. MS can state all they want about not supporting XP, but if a person is still able to get it on a new puter from a major manufacture there will be support.

Just my .02cents

 

[PhreePhly]

Every company I go into and start talking about OS systems in one way oe another I always ask them why are you still using XP? They all say the same thing....

Because XP works, the perception of moving to another OS is alot of work and expense.

The ONLY way MS is going to get XP on the shelf is to stop supporting it in anyway. Heck, I can still buy a brand new Toughbook with XP, Vista, or W7 on it. MS can state all they want about not supporting XP, but if a person is still able to get it on a new puter from a major manufacture there will be support.

Just my .02cents

The only support you are going to see is extended support, which is only security updates, and after 2014, even those end. Hardware manufacturers are under no obligation to continue to make XP drivers for hardware. As they move to focus more on Win7 and less on XP, you start to see hardware with no XP drivers. As more business move to Win7, there will be less incentive to spend development dollars on XP drivers/hardware.

 

[JonM33]

Well, Windows 7 has the patched XP legacy code...so those are no longer vulnerabilities...

I do hope you are kidding when you say that. :huh:

I know some. They are moving to Server 2008 R2. Which is basically the same as Windows 7 (x64).

I'm talking about DESKTOPS. Who would put Server 2008 on a desktop? :sarc:

 

[pparks1]

I'm talking about DESKTOPS. Who would put Server 2008 on a desktop? :sarc:

We have a few users on this board that have run Sever 2008 R2 as a desktop. While you can make it look like Windows 7...I don't think it's the best choice for a desktop. Not to mention, it's far more expensive to purchase legit licenses for. Unless you have tehcnet or something for personal testing, it's hard to justify the extra cost of running Server 2008 R2.

 

[JonM33]

I'm talking about DESKTOPS. Who would put Server 2008 on a desktop? :sarc:

We have a few users on this board that have run Sever 2008 R2 as a desktop. While you can make it look like Windows 7...I don't think it's the best choice for a desktop. Not to mention, it's far more expensive to purchase legit licenses for. Unless you have tehcnet or something for personal testing, it's hard to justify the extra cost of running Server 2008 R2.

I'm talking about companies migrating from Windows XP. Nobody is going to pick Windows Server 2008 as the OS they migrate their desktops to.

 

[pparks1]

I'm talking about companies migrating from Windows XP. Nobody is going to pick Windows Server 2008 as the OS they migrate their desktops to.

No, absolutely not. It would be costly, more dangerous, etc.

 

[Win7User512]

Well, Windows 7 has the patched XP legacy code...so those are no longer vulnerabilities...

I do hope you are kidding when you say that. :huh:

Windows legacy code.

I know some. They are moving to Server 2008 R2. Which is basically the same as Windows 7 (x64).

I'm talking about DESKTOPS. Who would put Server 2008 on a desktop? :sarc:

I doubt many companies are going to use x64 due to the higher system requirements.

It was a vague statement. Who knew you were talking just about desktops?

And people with home servers would put Server 2008 R2 on a desktop. Or they could use Vail.

 

[Win7User512]

I'm talking about DESKTOPS. Who would put Server 2008 on a desktop? :sarc:

We have a few users on this board that have run Sever 2008 R2 as a desktop. While you can make it look like Windows 7...I don't think it's the best choice for a desktop. Not to mention, it's far more expensive to purchase legit licenses for. Unless you have tehcnet or something for personal testing, it's hard to justify the extra cost of running Server 2008 R2.

I'm talking about companies migrating from Windows XP. Nobody is going to pick Windows Server 2008 as the OS they migrate their desktops to.

Maybe not their desktops to 2008, but their desktops to 7 x64.

 

[JonM33]

It was a vague statement. Who knew you were talking just about desktops?

That's what this entire thread is about. Read the subject line!

And people with home servers would put Server 2008 R2 on a desktop. Or they could use Vail.

We aren't talking about people's home servers here. This is about businesses running Windows XP and why they aren't migrating to Windows 7.

I'm pretty sure most home owners would spend $95 for a Windows Home Server license as opposed to $659 for a Windows Server 2008 Standard license.

Maybe not their desktops to 2008, but their desktops to 7 x64.

No, Windows 7 x64 has higher minimum hardware requirements (2GB RAM) and lack of 16-bit application support. Most companies will most likely have 1GB RAM standard in their desktops.

 

[bjrichus]

Yea, I understand the hardware issues, and that will always be there (we currently have a piece of equipment attached to a Win98 machine, as the vendor is long gone and a newer version of the control software was never written). One thing that Vista helped on was requiring that any driver vendor wishing for a MS certificate was required to submit both a 32 and a 64-bit version of the driver.

I was talking about stand-alone apps, as these are the most frustrating. Most of the 32/64 compatibility problems stem from poor programming practices. The one that really gets me is a piece of software that functions fine in every way, except you can't print from it (it's main function is to generate a pre-formatted document). The vendor used some printing widget that makes use of Win16 API calls. 32-bit windows can handle that, but 64-bit can't. They actually wrote the program in VB, but opted not to use the standard Win32 printing APIs.

I can only tell you that many 3rd party software vendors are indeed slower than you might expect when it comes to providing "certification" and therefore "support" for a flagship product! The latest releases are often the only releases they support. Lets face it, this is a good chance for them to dump old releases, which I can't exactly blame them about, but is a pain (and potentially costly) to have to upgrade a package early to use 7 on the desktop or just plain old wait for the regular upgrade cycle to kick in.

As others have said, especially for a small business where any IT costs and time spent, directly detract from the bottom line in a very real way. Big business won't do an upgrade without extensive testing and verification of app compatibility either!

I'm getting onto my soap box now...

Those of us who work in IT need to remember, the view non IT people take is that a PC as a tool to do the "real job" they have to do. If you change the shape and (especially) the color of the handle to that tool (let alone the shape or size of the blade), then their world has just crashed in on them. They need lots of TLC and education (all equates to time and therefore money) to be convinced that an early upgrade is a good thing. In short, that ain't gonna happen unless you have a tame user and/or a "slush fund" so a good "early adopter" can trail-blaze the new release.

IT people know the issues of security, hackers, support etc, etc, but that isn't what matters to the end user. They'd rather take chances on those things than change because "IT have a firewall/install that damn anti-virus software that only slows us down." And of course, they also don't perceive the need for change until the world moves under them... mobile access is a recent thing but how many small companies actually do have an app for that? Yeah, I know... Ulcer time!

Ok, I'll get of my soap-box now...

Best advise is just use caution when it comes to taking satatements of support at face value; make sure the release of whatever it is you intend to use is not only working on "7" but is supported and if they require something else installed, like an obscure math library version you upgraded away from, some years ago! READ THE RELEASE NOTES. There are usually some interesting things in there that most of us tend to ignore until it's too late (but you already knew that)...

I'm not going to name vendors here who do not properly support "7" as the last of ours just did... but of course, we need to upgrade to latest/bleeding edge/buggy release of it for the thing to be supported...

Oh ... My arm is being twisted ... ... we had one user who came into work and grumbled about MS Flight Sim not working "properly". Turns out he had a Win7 laptop of his own at home and it appears that FS does not support all the features of Aero (no surprise considering the vintage of FS now), and it reverts the PC to a basic theme when it loads and back to his "advanced" theme when it unloads... he wanted us to "fix it" for him! I was just pleased to see how it did that switching for him, rather than just crashing or refusing to run at all!!!

Maybe there is a fix for that FSX thing, but it's no longer a current product... how does one get support for it?

You can't please everyone!!!!

 

[96accord]

I work for the local government and we are running XP SP3. I work in the I.T. field and definitely costs go into the reason why we are not upgrading. Also training the users would be a ROYAL pain in the ASS! I do not even want to think about that. Our users do NOT like change thus making it even worse.

 

[DrWho]

I work for the local government and we are running XP SP3. I work in the I.T. field and definitely costs go into the reason why we are not upgrading. Also training the users would be a ROYAL pain in the ASS! I do not even want to think about that. Our users do NOT like change thus making it even worse.

Hee! Hee! You don't really get into the "we don't wanna change" syndrome till you work with government. Local Govt's are the worse.
Back in '90 -'91 I was the IT guy for our local county Data Processing Dept.
I also repaired all the PC's and printers and ran an old NCR mainframe computer.

When I got there in '90, no one, county wide, was doing backups of their data files.
I almost had to get a Decree from the Pope to get those old gals to start backing up their data every day. Actually is was a decree from the Head of Data Processing.
All the PC's were back under desks in the dirt and filth and when I moved them to the desktops, you could hear the screams of anguish in the next county.

Oh well, that's all ancient history now.

 

[96accord]

A few users just got rid of their Mainframe PC's! They were dying!! lol

 

[Layback Bear]

When the employees of a company or government agency start telling them what operating system or programs they will use and there not going to change. Folks you have a management problem. Management and there I.T. with a lot of research should and will decide what operation system and programs will be used and when. Those that don't want to change or learn the new systems will just have to work some place else. Just a little side note. I would not allow any body bring in some thing, (laptop, thumb drive or any thing else) and plug it into the companies net. Any company laptop that is also used from another place will have the programs and operating system the company chooses only. User right will be configured so no changes will be permitted. No programs downloaded, access to many web sites blocked, ect. There is no way to keep a secure company network allowing employees to use a companies net as there personal net. If the employee doesn't need internet access to do there job then don't allow it. This is basic security for what ever operating system is decided to keep or move to.