Almost no response from windows 7..angry wife

[Keiichi25]

Device manager/properties/driver/driver provider is what I listed. Most of them say Microsoft windows Hardware Compatabilty Publisher as Digital signer. I had a look on the Dell website so see what latest drivers were (mostly listed under Vista 64 bit), but I can't be sure if these newer drivers arrived in Windows Update or I fished them off the Intel/ATI website (which might not be so smart I guess).

My recommendation then, is make sure you get exactly what the chipset is for the devices in question. I wouldn't use the ones from the Windows Updates provided unless they were microsoft products, mostly cause I have actually seen a system get twitchy using those and I went to go get the drivers from the manufacturer's website and stabilized the system.

Read the documentation from the drivers you did get from Dell, that should help you get at least an idea of the drivers you should be looking for from the manufacturer. Also, do the drivers one at a time. No need to do all of them unless you want to, as your first priority is to identify what is causing your wife's system to freeze for a bit. From my own experience, it is best to try re-create the issue as much as possible, paying attention to what is happening at that time to help you identify the root causes of the issue. Like is the Hard Drive working hard, then that narrows it down to being the Main Board and/or Drive Controller drivers needing to be looked into. Was it something that was to make a sound, then focus more on the sound card. Was it something to do with video, look at the video drivers. Was it something net related... Network card drivers.

As always, be consistent when you test it. Otherwise, you won't know if you have addressed the issue and having a mad wife come at you with scissors.

 

[gregrocker]

Win7 is not XPired or Vista. MS spent a fortune paying manufacturers to build drivers under the WHQL partnership program so they would have them in the installer or updated quickly via optional Windows Updates.

I would not change out any drivers given by installer or Updates until performance dictates doing so. In your case, performance issues may have arisen because of change of drivers after install. You really don't know unless you roll them back or reinstall.

In your case, I would make sure you have the full chipset install for your service tag given on Dell's website to start. Then check performance for awhile. Meanwhile study and compare other drivers listed for your service tag with what you have.

Have you studied your Event Viewer>Admin view to google repeat errors to find out how others have resolved these issues? There should be important clues here. Also study the Performance log on Advanced Tools page accessed by clicking through WEI score at Computer>Properties. Look for cued issues at top of Tools page, Generate a System Health Report.

Type Problems in Start search box to see if MS has sent solutions todetected problems.

 

[Keiichi25]

Actually, Greg, I have to differ on you with this...

This is actually coming from experience in installing Windows 7 on my Dell XPS 720, which also has no drivers for Windows 7 and I have a different Video Card in the system. While I downloaded the drivers, I have seen similar problems with my system until I made sure certain drivers were put in place. While Win 7 was functioning to a degree, I have run into slight pauses and twitches using the baseline drivers offered by Windows 7 and also from the Windows Updates.

As much as you like to believe the WHQL tested drivers being pushed by Windows Updates, I don't have nearly as much faith in them as a whole from a clean install. They are there just enough to get the machine functional, but can cause twitches as mentioned unless you take the time to update the drivers from the Manufacturer.

As some of the Dell's older systems do not have Win 7 Drivers, the alternative is to use either the Vista x64 ones if they are available or to get them from the chipset manufacturer. Relying on purely the Microsoft ones is as much as relying on the belief of "XPired or vista thinking".

I also stated he should do them one at a time, re-creating the situation as much as possible, thus eliminating the problem.

 

[gregrocker]

The differences as expressed here give users both perspectives so they can settle on their own course.

I am only asking that new installers wait to see how performance pans out before jumping in to change drivers.

What's important is that they understand the process so they can engage in it if necessary.

Since you have been through the same thing with a Dell you might be able to guide OP to resolve whether drivers are his problem.

If not and he reinstalls as planned then I hope he'll gauge performance before changing drivers.

 

[masplin]

I'll do as Greg says initially i.e. just use whatever drivers come with windows update and see how things go. I get the messgae to take a note of what drivers are installed and then if performace issues work through each one if changing to one from Dell or manufacturer.

 

[masplin]

It was all going so well until I started! I went into the BIOS setup and see the following choice under SATA Operation: RAID Auto Detect/ATA or RAID ON. Currently set to RAID ON. All 3 of my drives (2 RAID 1 seperate) say "controlled by RAID BIOS". The first option says that RAID is used if RAID is signed on drives otherwise ATA. Selecting this option throws up an aggressive warning about not being able to boot etc.

When you say set SATA to AHCI is this the same as RAID Auto Detect/ATA? I don't see any reference to AHCI. Just wondering if RAID drives are "signed" whatever that means so the Auto detect will still keep the RAID0 assmebly. i have tried searching Dell support but can't find anything to clarify what this all means.

 

[Keiichi25]

Unfortunately, without seeing the BIOS screen myself, I can't tell you where to look. the XPS 430 is probably using a different MB than the XPS 720. Although my first guess is that you are not quite in the right place for what Rocker is wanting you to set your SATA controller type.

 

[masplin]

Been digging around on Dell support web site and it talks about using either Nvidia Media Shield or Intel Matrix Storage Manager to manager adding/removing rives from RAID. However neither of these seem to be instaleld on my system!

 

[masplin]

Ah found the intel Storage Manager by pressing Ctrl-I as it boots up. This allows me to create/delete or reset an array. However still no sign of the pesky ACHI!

 

[Keiichi25]

Been digging around on Dell support web site and it talks about using either Nvidia Media Shield or Intel Matrix Storage Manager to manager adding/removing rives from RAID. However neither of these seem to be instaleld on my system!

That would have nothing to do with Greg's recommendation with AHCI, that has more to do with providing an 'interface' for you in Windows to manage your RAID configuration without using the BIOS. Such as building an array or rebuilding an array. Most normal users would use that instead of looking at the BIOS cause it allows them to still use the computer, to a degree, without sitting there waiting for the system to do so or having to reboot the system to manage the array via bios.

 

[gregrocker]

Was not aware you are running a RAID array. I will leave it up to you if you want to keep it. Just know that we have many problems reported here with installing Win7 to a RAID array. However you could choose to break RAID only if you encounter these problems.

Normally to break the RAID:
Go into the RAID boot menu and delete/reset the RAID pair.
Go into the bios and change from RAID to AHCI
Remove all but one target HD to install Win7.

To learn exactly how this works on your mobo, read your Manual at the Dell Support Downloads website for your tag number. You need to fully understand how RAID works including its benefits for you since you can choose to continue using it.

Others may have better advice for you on this.

 

[masplin]

That's the issue in the BIOS there is no choice to go from RAID to ACHI only Auto Detect RAID/ATA. I have just found a post elsehwere where someone said that the XPS 720 chipset was to oold for ACHI. Is that why it doesn't show up or are there some drivers that need installing?

I am pretty confident there is no reason to keep the RAID0 for this pc and seperate drives would be more useful.

 

[masplin]

Ah now i fin d another post saying this:

Dell tends to be minimalist in its BIOS settings, and RAID mode for your 8100 seems to be just the same as the 430 original to this thread - basically the Dell BIOS RAID mode "doubles up" as meaning AHCI with only one drive.

Sounds like I clear the array with the Intel Storage Manager but leave the BIOS setting to RAID! However it's as clear as mud. Also I have found referrence to registry changes to allow AHCI.

 

[masplin]

Is this what they are getting at?

Error message when you start a Windows 7 or Windows Vista-based computer after you change the SATA mode of the boot drive: "STOP 0x0000007B INACCESSABLE_BOOT_DEVICE"

 

[gregrocker]

That's the issue in the BIOS there is no choice to go from RAID to ACHI only Auto Detect RAID/ATA. I have just found a post elsehwere where someone said that the XPS 720 chipset was to oold for ACHI. Is that why it doesn't show up or are there some drivers that need installing?

I am pretty confident there is no reason to keep the RAID0 for this pc and seperate drives would be more useful.

Some just remove all but one HD and it sorts itself out.

If too old for AHCI, then you'd want SATA or IDE setting in BIOS I believe.

There is normally a RAID screen at BIOS post where you can remove RAID.

I don't care much for RAID. I arrived at a friend's house to reinstall and discovered he had RAID, went ahead with the install rather than spend half a day hashing it out and he likes performance. I would want the second HD for storage. Others see performance benefits in RAID.

 

[Keiichi25]

That's the issue in the BIOS there is no choice to go from RAID to ACHI only Auto Detect RAID/ATA. I have just found a post elsehwere where someone said that the XPS 720 chipset was to oold for ACHI. Is that why it doesn't show up or are there some drivers that need installing?

I am pretty confident there is no reason to keep the RAID0 for this pc and seperate drives would be more useful.

Actually, the XPS 720 uses nForce based board, which does not have AHCI included in theirs, so there is no way to use it.

I have my system (XPS 720) using RAID1 setup (Mirrored, not spanned) for the purpose of redundancy support. I haven't had problems getting it up and running, although I made sure I had the drivers for it installed to reduce the twitchiness.

The XPS 720 uses nForce and not Intel, so the results will vary.

I would recommend that if you are deadset on having a raid, don't do RAID 0, do RAID 1, as RAID 1 is mirroring. While yes, it means you waste a disk on redundancy, it is better that one disk fails and you can still run versus 1 disk that fails and your entire system goes to crap.

If you absolutely need the space, you are better off just getting a newer, larger disk. I never would trust the system with a striped RAID without redundancy. If you need striped performance with redundancy, you will want to do a Raid 0+1 or Raid 10 configuration, which is mirror+striping.

My first guess is that originally, the system was setup with RAID, probably to get the most out of space, but you probably don't want to have your system built that way. I usually recommend building the system with a mirrored System Disk or a single drive system. If Space is the 'must have'... You can do Raid 0 for DATA SPACE, but never for OS. Dells should have 4 drive bays, so task 1 bay to be your SYS drive, and RAID 0 your 3 remaining spaces (Although I rather recommend RAID 5... It will not help performance wise, but at least if one drive fails, you don't lose your data horribly because one disk failed and took 1/2 to 1/3 of your data in the process.

While you could also do Raid 5 to cover all 4 drives (3 striped, 1 parity), performance suffers in that designation.

First thing you might want to consider, as a test, is break the raid. Reinstall the OS on a single drive and see if the system is twitchy then. If it seems stable, perhaps just image the drive and put it off to the side, use the 3 remaining bays to make a nice sizable data and app drive using a Raid 5 config for the wife and see if she is happy with that. If you are more concerned with having her with a redundant System in case the system drive has a failure, you should be able to install the system with the RAID configuration, but be prepared to replace the Drive controller drivers with the Dell or Manufacturer's latest drivers to take the twitchiness out of the equation. (Although I am leaning towards you will need those drivers for either RAID configuration.)

 

[gregrocker]

What are the exact performance benefits for having these HD's all interlocked in this way so that everything fails if one fails? Wouldn't a single Win7 SSD surpass it anyway without the mess?

Be sure to unplug all but the target HD, then wipe and format it if you break the RAID: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/91339-ssd-hdd-optimize-windows-reinstallation.html

 

[Keiichi25]

What are the exact performance benefits for having these HD's all interlocked in this way so that everything fails if one fails? Wouldn't a single Win7 SSD surpass it anyway without the mess?

Be sure to unplug all but the target HD, then wipe and format it if you break the RAID: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/91339-ssd-hdd-optimize-windows-reinstallation.html

Well, from what people are lead to believe is with having a RAID 0, you are effectively multiplying your access rate, as data being striped across disks, and now with sata, you are no longer waiting nearly as much for data due to slow disks, but getting data at Nx where N == drives striped, presuming data is divided up equally across that space. The draw back is that if one drive fails, you basically lose 1/N of the data, with no redundancy, it is then a loss of data.

Raid 5 allows for space spanning (Which is where RAID 0 would come in handy as well), but uses 1 drive as a redundancy parity check. You don't gain the performance gain of RAID 0 due to the fact that you are also creating a parity check on the last drive so that if one drive fails, it you don't lose your data as the parity then makes up for the drive that failed.

The best performance and spanning is RAID 10, where you have the RAID 0 spanning and performance access, but you use twice the number of disks to provide mirroring, so if one of the drives fails, it falls back to its mirror to sustain it.

These are generally used mostly with servers, but for die hard, I can't afford to be down a day in my life type computer users, they would use at least RAID 1 for the system drive.

I know a few people who have used RAID 0 just cause of the performance wish, but not realizing that they shoot themselves in the foot if one of those drives failed.

 

[WindowsStar]

That's the issue in the BIOS there is no choice to go from RAID to ACHI only Auto Detect RAID/ATA. I have just found a post elsehwere where someone said that the XPS 720 chipset was to oold for ACHI. Is that why it doesn't show up or are there some drivers that need installing?

I am pretty confident there is no reason to keep the RAID0 for this pc and seperate drives would be more useful.

While you could also do Raid 5 to cover all 4 drives (3 striped, 1 parity), performance suffers in that designation.

Respectfully: Simply not true. Many servers come with only 4 drive bays and RAID 5 is the default setup per the manufacture. I have used RAID 5 on 4 drives many times and it works perfectly with no performance hit. In fact is much faster than RAID 10. Because the machine is not mirroring and stripping at the same time. -WS

 

[WindowsStar]

OP: Break your RAID 0 with CTRL I, select Auto RAID/ATA in BIOS. Remove the 2nd drive. Then load Windows 7 on one drive it will be in SATA mode. From there you can RAID 1 it, or add the second drive as a D: Drive for data, etc.

Just my 2 cents. -WS