Am I doing something Wrong?

[glennc]

Hello to all,
As some know I just installed a UPS on my system, an APC 550 Watt unit. I've noticed having it three days, that when I turn the UPS on it it blinks. On looking on the APC software log it shows that there were three events where the battery was turned on for 10 seconds due to line noise. These events seem to occur when I turned it on the first three times. For clarity I have a Surge Supressor strip feeding all the other devices plugged into the surge protected only outlet on the UPS and it does not turn off when the it is powered down. I shut it down at night and when the box is off and the monitor show it's off, then I turn the UPS off.
Am I doing something wrong? I also noted that the UPS reached originally a runtime of 26 minutes on a full charge. Now it only goes to 14 minutes power with the battery fully charged. What might be causing this.
Thanks from the ignorant side.
glennc

 

[pparks1]

My UPS's kick in for a few seconds here and there pretty regularly. It's one of the nice benefits of having a UPS....becuase it's often moments of low voltage that kill computer components.

The amount of run time is determined by the load on the device. So, obviously it would decrease if you add a monitor, external drive, more hardware, a new video card, etc.

These UPS's are really only intended to sustain you through a short/minor outage. I have my software configured to gracefully shut down my PC if it's on battery for 2 minutes.

 

[glennc]

Hello pparks1,
Thanks for your participation. I see your point on the use of the UPS. Is it strange to at least coincidentally occurring with power up? In reference to the runtime difference, the original 26 minutes was with the monitor and box, same as now. It just changed to 14 minutes and I am interested in why.
Have any ideas?
glennc

 

[Fumz]

...I just installed a UPS on my system, an APC 550 Watt unit... For clarity I have a Surge Supressor strip feeding all the other devices plugged into the surge protected only outlet on the UPS and it does not turn off when the it is powered down. I shut it down at night and when the box is off and the monitor show it's off, then I turn the UPS off.
Am I doing something wrong? I also noted that the UPS reached originally a runtime of 26 minutes on a full charge. Now it only goes to 14 minutes power...

Are you saying you're using two surge protectors: one in addition to the surge protection provided by the UPS? If so, don't.

Second, don't turn the UPS off at night: allow it to fully recharge, which can take some time if you're house is subject to a lot of brown outs, which may be the case given what you're reporting.

26 minutes is a long time. I'm not sure, given your machine, that that's a realistic expectation. Neither is 14 minutes really. The unit isn't all that big, and it's not storing a whole lot of power. It's really there so you can close out your work and safely turn the machine off given a black out.

 

[glennc]

...I just installed a UPS on my system, an APC 550 Watt unit... For clarity I have a Surge Supressor strip feeding all the other devices plugged into the surge protected only outlet on the UPS and it does not turn off when the it is powered down. I shut it down at night and when the box is off and the monitor show it's off, then I turn the UPS off.
Am I doing something wrong? I also noted that the UPS reached originally a runtime of 26 minutes on a full charge. Now it only goes to 14 minutes power...

Are you saying you're using two surge protectors: one in addition to the surge protection provided by the UPS? If so, don't.

Second, don't turn the UPS off at night: allow it to fully recharge, which can take some time if you're house is subject to a lot of brown outs, which may be the case given what you're reporting.

26 minutes is a long time. I'm not sure, given your machine, that that's a realistic expectation. Neither is 14 minutes really. The unit isn't all that big, and it's not storing a whole lot of power. It's really there so you can close out your work and safely turn the machine off given a black out.

Hello Fumz,
Thanks for replying to my plight. As a novice with UPS and surge protectors, what little I know is that the UPS Joule rating is way lower than the surge protector I have coming of it. Would that add up, I easily may be missing something important.
I agree about the times, I was just wondering how the UPS determines the value that it displays and how it changed so drastically. I have it set to shutdown after 2 minutes.
Lastly I thought I read that the UPS was charging even when off. I will try to figure out the manual. So leaving it on and just powering down the attached devices is o.k.?
glennc

 

[Petey7]

When it comes to any kind of surge protector/power strip, you should never have one plugged into another. All kinds of problems can occur. I thought that it would charge even when turned off, but I'd look that up if I were you. The change may have to do with the age of the device. All rechargeable batteries lose charge over time. The more time goes by, the less they can hold. I hope that answers some of your questions.

 

[Mellon Head]

Most UPS's that I've used have been left on all the time. Some charge the batteries when off and some don't. As a rule of thumb, I just leave mine on all the time since the charging circuit slows to a trickle once the batteries are fully charged, so it isn't a problem. I'm running a server and a media machine off of it, so I need to leave it on.

I do use a surge protected power bar on the output of one circuit on my UPS. That powers my tower and main monitor. It has no effect on the operation of the UPS, provides a slight bit more protection, and gives me the convenience of being able to easily cut the power to my main PC at night, without turning off the UPS. The circuits that power the server and media PC don't need that capability, so no power bars there.

@ Glenn: It's normal for a UPS to kick on and off once in a while. It's just leveling out the brownouts that are common in times of high electricity demand. Like after work, around the dinner hour. It's the opposite of the normal surge protection that clamps the high voltages that show up once in a while.

 

[glennc]

When it comes to any kind of surge protector/power strip, you should never have one plugged into another. All kinds of problems can occur. I thought that it would charge even when turned off, but I'd look that up if I were you. The change may have to do with the age of the device. All rechargeable batteries lose charge over time. The more time goes by, the less they can hold. I hope that answers some of your questions.

Hey Petey7,
I will look into that. I am just wondering why it seems to only occur when I turn it on. 3 times on, 3 line noise events. Weird, at least in my mind? Do know of the problems that might occur with surge protectors off of another? I'd like to get some clearer explanations, not that I don't trust your experience. Thanks for the reply.
As to battery losing charge its only been on for 3 or 4 days. Anyway thanks I appreciate your reply.
glennc

 

[glennc]

Most UPS's that I've used have been left on all the time. Some charge the batteries when off and some don't. As a rule of thumb, I just leave mine on all the time since the charging circuit slows to a trickle once the batteries are fully charged, so it isn't a problem. I'm running a server and a media machine off of it, so I need to leave it on.

I do use a surge protected power bar on the output of one circuit on my UPS. That powers my tower and main monitor. It has no effect on the operation of the UPS, provides a slight bit more protection, and gives me the convenience of being able to easily cut the power to my main PC at night, without turning off the UPS. The circuits that power the server and media PC don't need that capability, so no power bars there.

@ Glenn: It's normal for a UPS to kick on and off once in a while. It's just leveling out the brownouts that are common in times of high electricity demand. Like after work, around the dinner hour. It's the opposite of the normal surge protection that clamps the high voltages that show up once in a while.

Hey Hey Mellon Head,
So basically you're using a surge protector off another surge protector. I like the idea as I may have mentioned if I decide to leave the UPS on all the time. Better than turning off the devices individually. Do you think putting a router and a DSL modem on the backup circuits would be too much drain on the UPS, in addition to an LG Led? monitor and the computer?
Thanks as always.
glennc

 

[Petey7]

My brothers and dad understand it more than I do (second oldest is an electrician for an electrical contractor, oldest works at Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant in Maryland, and dad is the head of maintenance at a HP production plant). Among the things they have told me are 1) not enough power to the devices plugged into the second power strip, 2) increased chances of over loading the circuit, 3) damage to the outlet the first power strip is plugged into (easy to replace if you know what you are doing, easy to electrocute yourself is you don't). There were a few others, but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

 

[grimreaper]

Are you saying you're using two surge protectors: one in addition to the surge protection provided by the UPS? If so, don't.

That is dangerous, and a very likely event that something terrible may happen.

 

[grimreaper]

I have a Belkin UPS F6C1500TWRK backup power supply, and it's not your typical UPS unit....this thing can power a fridge

I have mine connected to everything (Desktop PC, XBOX360,Netbook, external HD, 7.1 AMP,Blu-Ray player,DVD player, and of course my HDTV)... it's plugged in straight into the wall (grounded properly as it should).
It's the best investment everyone should have in case of a brownout or blackout, or even worse an unexpected Surge, it has never failed me once.

Do not ever plug a surge protector in a UPS, give it plenty of ventilation, and space for the wires.
Here's my 2 cents

 

[glennc]

My brothers and dad understand it more than I do (second oldest is an electrician for an electrical contractor, oldest works at Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant in Maryland, and dad is the head of maintenance at a HP production plant). Among the things they have told me are 1) not enough power to the devices plugged into the second power strip, 2) increased chances of over loading the circuit, 3) damage to the outlet the first power strip is plugged into (easy to replace if you know what you are doing, easy to electrocute yourself is you don't). There were a few others, but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

Actually having worked with electrics, the explanation makes sense. I will have to do some thinking about that. Thanks because I didn't think of those things myself.
Good night.
glennc

 

[Phone Man]

I assume you are using the APC software to monitor your UPS.
This is what mine looks like. After a few blackouts the UPS seams to adjust to the load it sees and then recalculates the run time.
On my Battery Backup ports I have my PC, Monitor, Cable Modem, Router, Vontage Box and Wireless Phone System. I just turn off my PC and Monitor and leave the UPS on for the others since my Phone systems runs through the Router and Modem. I have two others for my two big screen TV's and cable boxes.



Jim

 

[glennc]

I have a Belkin UPS F6C1500TWRK backup power supply, and it's not your typical UPS unit....this thing can power a fridge

I have mine connected to everything (Desktop PC, XBOX360,Netbook, external HD, 7.1 AMP,Blu-Ray player,DVD player, and of course my HDTV)... it's plugged in straight into the wall (grounded properly as it should).
It's the best investment everyone should have in case of a brownout or blackout, or even worse an unexpected Surge, it has never failed me once.

Do not ever plug a surge protector in a UPS, give it plenty of ventilation, and space for the wires.
Here's my 2 cents

Hello grimreaper,
I appreciate you adding your knowledge. That is some UPS you've got there. Since I'm only concerned with line regulation and a auto nice shutdown I think/hope I'm going to be o.k.
To all, if I find out that my UPS doesn't charge when off, would it be bad to add a surge protector of of it within wattage ratings for the availability of an on/off switch and some additional surge protection? I'm talking about just the monitor and computer? Is that considered that dangerous within output wattage rating. I'm just concerned that the UPS I have seems to line noise fault when I power it up. The extra surge protector would be solely for convenience. Appreciate your opinions.
I can see why some, but if the wattage wasn't overdrawing the output, then that potential danger would be eliminated and it would just be the issue of a second probably larger surge protector circuit off the built in one.
glennc

 

[glennc]

I assume you are using the APC software to monitor your UPS.
This is what mine looks like. After a few blackouts the UPS seams to adjust to the load it sees and then recalculates the run time.
On my Battery Backup ports I have my PC, Monitor, Cable Modem, Router, Vontage Box and Wireless Phone System. I just turn off my PC and Monitor and leave the UPS on for the others since my Phone systems runs through the Router and Modem. I have two others for my two big screen TV's and cable boxes.

View attachment 89079

Jim

Hey Jim,
Ah an APC window I can almost recognize. Mine doesn't have the bar graph for the battery load or the manual self test. If I understand you, and I may not, the UPS actually monitors the load and recalculates the runtime on it's findings. My battery is showing 100% charged. What size is yours may I ask.
Thanks for the visual aid and your computer UPS.
With all the things you guys have come up with to protect, this may cost a lot more than I was thinking
glennc

 

[Phone Man]

I have the APC Back-UPS ES 750 which can support up to 450 Watts. I am using ver 2.2 of the software to monitor the UPS.
What model do you have? My old ones did not have the graph either so it depends on what model you have.

Jim

 

[glennc]

Hello Phone Man,
I'm using the BE550G and I've updated the software to Windows 7 v2.2. I just got another event and they are not all occurring at power up. Still got to dig up the book, so until then I'll just leave it on and charge.
Tanks
glennc

 

[Phone Man]

You have the same family of UPS I have only mine is the next larger size. Are you looking at the Current Status page. That is where the Load Bar is located. From what I see on the APC site your UPS with Software ver 2.2 should show the Load Bar and also have the self-test.
Also your unit WILL charge when plugged in even if you turn it off.

Jim

 

[grimreaper]

Hello grimreaper,
I appreciate you adding your knowledge. That is some UPS you've got there. Since I'm only concerned with line regulation and a auto nice shutdown I think/hope I'm going to be o.k.
To all, if I find out that my UPS doesn't charge when off, would it be bad to add a surge protector of of it within wattage ratings for the availability of an on/off switch and some additional surge protection? I'm talking about just the monitor and computer? Is that considered that dangerous within output wattage rating. I'm just concerned that the UPS I have seems to line noise fault when I power it up. The extra surge protector would be solely for convenience. Appreciate your opinions.
I can see why some, but if the wattage wasn't overdrawing the output, then that potential danger would be eliminated and it would just be the issue of a second probably larger surge protector circuit off the built in one.
glennc

Thanx for the compliments, I choose this UPS for the sole fact I knew I had a ton of electronic gear to protect in case of the obvious reasons.
It's better to have a UPS that has more juice available then what you're plugging in.

With regards to your question, I cannot stress adding a surge protector to your UPS is wrong, and as a matter of fact in the manuals, this is mentioned also not to plug a surge protector to the UPS.
I can only tell you what I think, it's up to you now to make your own choice if you want to plug in a surge protector to your UPS.
Good luck my friend