American ISPs to launch massive copyright spying scheme on July 12

[seekermeister]

Whether it is a failure or not, depends on the effect that they intend. If it is simply to instill fear in order to effect people's behavior, it might be quite a success.
Also, considering the exorbitant amount of the penalties that have been levied is some court cases, they don't have to win many to rake in a profit. It doesn't matter to me whether I'm involved or not, because what is done to one person is done to all of us.

It seems to me that the rights of people no longer count for anything in this country, otherwise they wouldn't even contemplate such an atrocious plan of action. On the other hand, it doesn't speak well for the people, because in the past, we wouldn't have allowed it to go this far, without raising the roof.

 

[Layback Bear]

I'm still trying to understand why millions of people (the little guys) stealing online is okay. Who else other than the ISP has the ability to monitor the stealing? It is like asking a camera on a ATM machine to only take pictures of people stealing $5000.00 or more. We will never stop bank robbery but that doesn't mean we should stop trying. Some say the penalty for getting caught are to high. The penalty for not stealing is none, zero, nil.

 

[FuturDreamz]

I'm still trying to understand why millions of people (the little guys) stealing online is okay. Who else other than the ISP has the ability to monitor the stealing? It is like asking a camera on a ATM machine to only take pictures of people stealing $5000.00 or more. We will never stop bank robbery but that doesn't mean we should stop trying. Some say the penalty for getting caught are to high. The penalty for not stealing is none, zero, nil.

True, but in this day an age, the penalty for being SUSPECTED of stealing is fairly high.

 

[seekermeister]

Layback Bear,

This topic is not about whether it is right to steal or not, but how it should be dealt with. It probably is not important to you, but the Biblical penalty for stealing is to have to repay sevenfold, not seven thousand fold. If one takes the average cost of a movie or music DVD to be at ~ $20. then seven times that amount is $140. Even with court costs, it shouldn't cost more than a few hundred dollars for a conviction.

Of course, if the penalty was of that caliber, it wouldn't be such an attractive prospect for the legal beagles.

 

[Layback Bear]

I understand the math. I'm not sure why one would think are judicial system would use the Bible and it's words. Separation of church and state. Could someone address the part about not stealing has no penalty.

 

[seekermeister]

Layback Bear,

It doesn't matter whether you believe in Biblical principles or not, nor how the Bible and law interact, nor does it require a mathematical genius to understand the numbers. What does matter is if the law is just. What is worse, is that this scheme doesn't necessarily involve the law directly, it is a conspiracy between lawyers and businesses, but the law is suppose to regulate them as well as the thieves. Being a thief is wrong, regardless of how deep your pockets are, and while thieves do steal from thieves, it is not the function of the law to aid and abet such criminality.

On top of all of that, this type of action involves a lot more than thieves, because the innocent will also be accused and penalized, and that is the greatest crime of all.

If you can't understand that, I don't know what more that I could say to make it more understandable.

 

[mr pc]

a couple concerns:

1) Could this be considered warrant-less wiretapping?
2) How will this affect Open Source users?
3) Will ISPs send out a notice to their customers about their intents?
4) What kind of transparency will be presented - if they tap into my private data (medical/insurance, etc) how do I know they didn't see my information?
5) How can they prove this is effective and fair if they only hit up the small guys compared to the big guys?
6) What would happen if a company is inadvertently tapped for illegal abuse?
7) How will teens explain this to their parents?

 

[bigdog2626]

i got a ? how could they know what me/you dl from a site such as rapidshare

 

[A Guy]

Everything passes through them to get to you. If it is a zip or Rar, they really can't know. I think the issue is they will suspect. Why would you d/l a password protected zip if you have nothing to hide? If the name of the file seems "suspicious"... I just think the whole thing is fraught with danger. A Guy

 

[pparks1]

The solution is simple, stop pirating stuff, or potentially pay a crazy fine if caught.

 

[seekermeister]

The solution is simple, stop pirating stuff, or potentially pay a crazy fine if caught.

The solution is not that simple, because one may not be pirating anything at all, and still be accused of doing so.

 

[pparks1]

perhaps, but i can pretty much guarantee that an accusation of piracy on my systems would turn up absolutely nothing.

 

[A Guy]

For those of us that don't pirate, the issue is if our isp thinks we are. What's to stop them from warning us about something we haven't done? A Guy

 

[seekermeister]

perhaps, but i can pretty much guarantee that an accusation of piracy on my systems would turn up absolutely nothing.

From what I've read, it wouldn't matter if your computer was clean or not, because that would only be relevant in a process with a body with a true legal purview. Even if for some reason it got that far, the current state of the computer would not necessarily reflect it's past state. The bottom line is that it wouldn't matter in the least whether your computer was clean or not, because they don't need any proof.

 

[stevieray]

perhaps, but i can pretty much guarantee that an accusation of piracy on my systems would turn up absolutely nothing.

From what I've read, it wouldn't matter if your computer was clean or not, because that would only be relevant in a process with a body with a true legal purview. Even if for some reason it got that far, the current state of the computer would not necessarily reflect it's past state. The bottom line is that it wouldn't matter in the least whether your computer was clean or not, because they don't need any proof.

Exactly. And don't forget the Mega Upload case going on right now... when they shut it down, they shut it ALL down. They made no effort to distinguish between pirated materials and legitimate content, everybody and everything was presumed guilty. To this day, the legally uploaded unpirated material is still off limits, and the user's inconvenience is of NO importance to the authorities.

 

[pparks1]

I think most of the people who spend so much time worrying about the "what-ifs" are likely those who might have an issue because of things they have done in the past.

I don't have problems with the police pulling me over for speeding, when I'm not speeding. I don't have problems getting accused of murder when I haven't committed a murder. I don't think my ISP is likely going to be warning me, or shutting down my access because they believe I "might" have done something wrong.

 

[noobvious]

The RIAA, in the few cases they've won in court for large fines....I'd like to know if any of that money actually went to the artists they purport to represent, or if it simply gets funneled in the legal expenses, which as we all know can be outrageous.

 

[pparks1]

I also love the theory that people don't want to pay for content like movies and music because so much of it is crappy these days. If it's so crappy though, why are people searching, downloading and watching them anyway. If you want to watch it, you want to watch it...regardless of how well done it is.

 

[seekermeister]

I think most of the people who spend so much time worrying about the "what-ifs" are likely those who might have an issue because of things they have done in the past.

I don't have problems with the police pulling me over for speeding, when I'm not speeding. I don't have problems getting accused of murder when I haven't committed a murder. I don't think my ISP is likely going to be warning me, or shutting down my access because they believe I "might" have done something wrong.

I'm glad that you have such faith in our system of government, but this issue is not one that involves the government, therefore it is wrong to compare one situation to another. At least, with the government if you are falsely accused (and people have been falsely accused), you have the chance to defend yourself. That is not the case here.

Even if you are never involved in this type of action, doesn't it bother you at least a little that someone else most likely will be, that shouldn't have been?

EDIT: Apparently, you have never driven through some of our nations notorious speed traps, like Nolanville, Texas. They have a short piece of highway going through their jurisdiction, where they make many small speed limit changes, and if they catch you exceeding any of them by 1 mph, they will pull you over and ticket you. However, your right to defend yourself doesn't mean much, because their court supports these actions...that is the way that they fund their city far beyond what is actually needed.

 

[arkhi]

I don't have problems with the police pulling me over for speeding, when I'm not speeding. I don't have problems getting accused of murder when I haven't committed a murder.

With the slow speed you are already going, and the massive traffic jam you just passed by, you are already getting late for work. Because of your relative speed with others, the trooper thought your were speeding and pulls you over (relating this with the current issue of the interenets, the police never used his radar gun). While you were never guilty of speeding, you just lost 10 minutes of your valuable time. Your reputation that you never got pulled over is gone.

You get accused of murder. That's a grave crime so they decided to file charges. Well, that means you end up in jail or you have to pay a fine. Now you have to go to court proceedings just to prove your innocence. The time and the money you just lost is very grave because some person decided they are going to be very paranoid about homicides.

Thing is, there is absolutely nothing wrong against piracy. But these people want to take your time, money, and privacy "just to be sure." That is not right.