Apparent hardware failure on HP s5-1114 desktop

[gregrocker]

Thanks Bob. Does it clear that bar already by running onboard HP diagnostics twice from booting via ESC key. Everything checked out OK except the HD SMART error 303 Imminent Failure.

I guess something with mobo could have changed since during transport over here it's PSU stopped working. Any theories and could that affect mobo, if all precautions are taken during replacement?

I was going to boot Hitachi Drive Fitness CD test, then if necessary to get data back try Spinrite. But I won't use that HD beyond that since I was able to get a replacement new 160gb (they only use 30gb) Seagate SATA for $25 on Amazon.

 

[TVeblen]

That sounds like a good plan. I would do data recovery then Hitachi test. Sometimes if the drive is really on the way out the test will be the last thing you will do with the drive.

Any recovery program is OK. Lots of folks have had good results with Recuva also.

 

[gregrocker]

I have their data from Dec reinstall so don't have to sweat it, would just be nice to get latest file set if possible.

Drive diagnostics tested all good then.

 

[TVeblen]

Well that's what I tell everyone: get that data first!

 

[Britton30]

Greg, there's really no way we mortals can test a motherboard. The PSU puts out a +5V PWR_GOOG signal to the board, the board will respond with a voltage check, if they are all OK it will tell the PSU to power up and the POST/BOOT process starts, This all takes a few milli-seconds. If the board can't read the PSU because of some defect then it won't boot.

We can tell more once you get a good HDD in it. Damn USPS, they and UPS, FedEx have all "misplaced" shipments to me too.

In the meantime try some Linux distro as Bob suggested.

 

[gregrocker]

USPS is worst. They can't get a package out of that mess. Supervisor is waiting for the other carriers to come back to see who CPU was sent out with by mistake. Then an hour later they close for long weekend. I doubt she'll even call me back.

The HD was found in the return bin because seller from Amazon put Ave instead of Way on it. But I don't need it first, need PSU. Route supervisor said he saw it there and thought it might be for this big complex with familar address and Unit number but was going to send it back anyway.

Question on BIOS post. It has already cleared the voltage check to POST, correct? So I have no reason to believe mobo is bad at this point since it posts and then pauses failing to hand over to HD. I'm trying to think of what could keep HD from booting if its detected and only has failing SMART, but that may be enough? Bad boot sector? Anything else?

 

[Britton30]

Yeah, I may have been wrong. I would think if it does POST and go to BIOS the board should be OK. The bad, if bad, PSU may be the culprit, Windows draws more power.

A new, blank HDD can be detected in BIOS so that's no real indication of its health.
Here's a shot of my UEFI BIOS, the highlighted drive is a SSD that I ran the diskpart clean command on.

 

[gregrocker]

This is interesting because it finally connects the PSU failure to HD not booting, but if a failing PSU might have not been providing enough voltage to boot HD, would it then have been able to run HP diagnostics from boot which is R/W from the HD?

I guess what's hard to wrap my head around (I'm not a hardware guy except casual) is that HD is functioning enough to run bootable HP hardware diagnostics on all hardware, failing the HDD. Shouldn't that be enough function to also boot it unless the boot sector is what's bad?

 

[Britton30]

Good question Greg, I don't know the answer. Can the HP Diag have a separate bootrec?

 

[TVeblen]

I would think that if you can run HP diagnostics, and they are on the hard drive, then the hard drive is good. It is good in that it spins, can read data, and communicates with the SATA controller and the motherboard.

It could be a bad or corrupted boot sector - a small portion of a MBR drive, right in the beginning, that tells the BIOS that it is a boot drive and to look for an OS to boot there.
However, when the boot sector is corrupted we usually get the "no disk found/no bootable media" error message.
So it might not be that.

If the Windows boot files are corrupted that could produce the problem, wouldn't it?
Like a BIOS, once the system hands off to Windows I'm finished (out of my depth)!

But if that were the case you should be able to run System Repair from an Install DVD to fix it.

What exactly happens when you boot (step by step - message by message)?

 

[gregrocker]

Looks like the PSU was mistakenly returned to sender in Calif, even though the HD arrived.

What happened before was when I had the owner run HP DIagnostics from boot, and when Geek Squad plugged in their power supply, is a normal HP BIOS splash screen with options to boot ESC (which worked for full diagnostics) and then nothing. The owners screen soon flashed "No signal detected."

 

[Slartybart]

It will at least help Greg identify the internal parts.

Good manual Bill. Greg, have a look at page 22 for the PSU replacement.

You're welcome Greg - HP doesn't make finding stuff easy. I was glad it had more detail than only Memory, Disc, and HD info.

Yeah I spotted that Manual the other day and then it didn't show up again.
It's about as detailed as one can get. Thanks, Bill.

My money is still on a faulty HD.
Could be the controller, but to keep it simple, eliminate the easy stuff 1st.

---

Greg, I forgot to mention a few things in my PM

• a lot of what I sent you was just reference material... I parsed out what I thought might be relevant. There really wasn't much.
  • clear cmos
  • reset BIOS to defaults
  • update BIOS - there was a reference to a HD failure false postive
  • reseat HD
  • and a few other simple things
• I don't think I have anything more to send

---

No SMART 303 ec?

Just boot, enter BIOS, ESC - nothing
I'm not sure when "No signal detected" happened - when the owner ran diags or at Geek squad?
-> I don't think the boot sequence is getting past the HD test and after waiting for a signal, the monitor just flashes the information on the screen.

I could be wrong on this, but I think HPs won't do much after a HD fault on boot. You've described two scenarios - 1) ec 303, and 2) boot, bios, nothing.

I'm also fairly certain that the machine will not boot if there is no hard drive. Both statements need fact checking.

What happened before was when I had the owner run HP DIagnostics from boot, and when Geek Squad plugged in their power supply, is a normal HP BIOS splash screen with options to boot ESC (which worked for full diagnostics) and then nothing. The owners screen soon flashed "No signal detected."

---

Do you have another desktop? Can you slip the suspect drive into an open drive bay on the 2nd box?
If you can, and the drive is recognized as a slave drive, you can run diags on it in the 2nd box.
That will get you around the boot issue anyway.

Another thing you mght consider is sticking that drive in an ext enclosure and connect it to any machine via USB.

You have plenty of heavy hitters here, HW isn't that hard - as Bob suggests take it one step at a time .

---

Off Topic: I have some personal matters that need attention, so I'm not ignoring anyone if I don't reply to your PM; I won't be on much for a week or so.

Bill

 

[Britton30]

New info, "No signal detected" may point to a bad/intermittently working GPU chip on the board. I had a hp with a Pegatron board which did this. It would have a display after several shut downs/restarts, then it quit completely. Oddly it would show the POST but not Windows.

 

[TVeblen]

Hey Greg. I agree with Gary, the no signal detected means you are getting no output from the video card or on-board chip. This adds a new wrinkle to the problem.

The traditional BIOS boot process is 2-step: POST (test for proper power and CPU 'self-awareness'), and Enumeration (find, identify, test, and list all the components of the core system.)
If either process fails for any reason the entire process stops and the system will not boot.
So if the video card is failing that could stop the process.

Problem is that the video card/chip could be failing intermittently due to a poor power problem (the power supply again). So until you've got that (assumed known) problem fixed you are just chasing your tail.

There is a discrepancy in your description of the problem and events: it does not boot, it boots but it does not start windows, it boots and it can run the HP diagnostics, it has no video output. And yes, these could all be happening just at different times.
It would be good to describe what happens step-by-step, starting with pressing the power button and ending with whatever ultimately failure occurs. Run through it 3 or 4 times. If it is different each time then describe each process independently. You never know what clue will pop out when doing this that someone might recognize.

But again - if you know the power supply is no good then throw a sheet over the thing until you get the replacement!

 

[gregrocker]

I talked with the owner last night and he confirmed that when pressing the power button it proceeded to HP BIOS screen pausing the normal amount of time, then soon after flashed on a black screen "No Signal Detected." I've seen this before thought this was a monitor message saying that it couldn't detect any further signal from PC.

Now at one point when he was describing this on the phone, I had him tap the ESC key, choose HP Diagnostics (F2 I think) which then ran through each hardware component giving a PASS rating until it reached the HD which failed with SMART Error Code 303 (Imminent failure).

I understand the point that a failing PSU could create anomalies elsewhere but the Geek Squad plugged in their PSU and the same thing happened - except for the No Signal Detected. So I assumed it was the behavior of the owner's brand of monitor reacting to nothing happening after BIOS post?

 

[TVeblen]

I don't think it has anything to with the brand. If you unplug the cable from a video card, any monitor will respond with that "no signal detected" message.
Best to check the cable connections again, especially if this rig has been moved around a lot in the past couple of days. And look for any broken or missing pins.

If any poking around inside the case has been going on it is always a good idea to re-seat the video card, if applicable.

 

[TVeblen]

Can this PC get into the BIOS settings and stay there?

 

[Britton30]

Just for the hey of it, try the new drive with a fresh install on it.

 

[gregrocker]

It has on onboard GPU chip.

May be thurs or Fri now since PO sent PSU back

 

[TVeblen]

We will still be here!