Backup or Image?

[jack1953]

Well, I got the netbook and my refurbished Dell pretty well setup, except for deciding how to approach the backup option to an external drive.

I've got Acronis 2012. Basically what I'd like to do, is be able to set something up that will backup my hard drive periodically as the files change.

That way my external drive will always be up to date, in leiu of a system crash.

I'm not even sure if this is possible, but I won't know unless I ask.

Anxious to hear from the experts.........and there is not an ounce of sarcasm in that whatsoever! You guys rock and the knowledge I've gained here has been priceless!!!!!!

Thanks in advance,
Jack

 

[seavixen32]

Check the Acronis PDF guide on this site: Acronis backup software and recovery services in UK. Backup software for data backup and disaster recovery in Windows and Linux - Acronis

Have a look at this tutorial: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/615-backup-user-system-files.html

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Basically what I'd like to do, is be able to set something up that will backup my hard drive periodically as the files change.

Are you referring to Windows files--your "system"?

Or your personal data files?

Or both?

How many hard drives and how many partitions on each?

 

[jack1953]

Basically what I'd like to do, is be able to set something up that will backup my hard drive periodically as the files change.

Are you referring to Windows files--your "system"?

Or your personal data files?

Or both?

How many hard drives and how many partitions on each?

Just one hard drive going to an external drive. I navigated my way through Acronis and set it up to backup daily!

Speaking of partitions, when I went to use Windows 7 Backup on my netbook it was asking for a place to back it up because there was no external drive hooked up.

If I partition the drive, will Windows 7 then recognize 2 drives and I can backup from the main drive to the partitioned drive?

Is there any free software that will make a partition on Windows 7?

The best I could find, price wise, on a quick Google search, was Paragon is offering a 10 day license for $9.95.

Jack

 

[whs]

1. Acronis is an excellent option. It is not the easiest to operate, but it does a fine job.

2. Make a folder for you netbook on the external drive and a folder for your Dell. Then image to those folders.

3. Partitions you create with Disk Management after shrinking some space from an existing partition. No program required.

4. Imaging to the same physical disk as the source is not a good idea. What do you do when the disk goes belly up. Use the external

 

[ignatzatsonic]

If I partition the drive, will Windows 7 then recognize 2 drives and I can backup from the main drive to the partitioned drive?

Is there any free software that will make a partition on Windows 7?

You don't need software to make a partition. You can do it with Windows own Disk Management.

But your plan has holes in it. Big holes.

If your single hard drive fails, you are sunk. Your image file and backups are gone.

You can do it that way, but it's foolish.

 

[jack1953]

If I partition the drive, will Windows 7 then recognize 2 drives and I can backup from the main drive to the partitioned drive?

Is there any free software that will make a partition on Windows 7?

You don't need software to make a partition. You can do it with Windows own Disk Management.

But your plan has holes in it. Big holes.

If your single hard drive fails, you are sunk. Your image file and backups are gone.

You can do it that way, but it's foolish.

Excellent point now that I think about it! Very foolish! I do have 2 externals. So best to back up netbook on one and the Dell on the bigger one since it is a 500G and the net is a 160G?

If I am understanding you guys correctly, in other posts, cloning or imaging is only advantageous if one needs to make room on their main drive?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

You can back up to any external you choose. You can back up the Dell and the notebook to the same drive assuming there is enough space.

Not sure what you mean by your last sentence. Cloning is a means of transferring to a larger drive when you run out of space, not in an emergency. Imaging is a method of recovering from a disaster or bad situation.

Cloning is not a backup. Period. Full stop. Cloning leaves you nothing to backup from. Cloning does not create a file that can be used to restore. Imaging does.

Cloning and imaging are entirely different processes..

 

[jack1953]

You can back up to any external you choose. You can back up the Dell and the notebook to the same drive assuming there is enough space.

Not sure what you mean by your last sentence. Cloning is a means of transferring to a larger drive when you run out of space, not in an emergency. Imaging is a method of recovering from a disaster or bad situation.

Cloning is not a backup. Period. Full stop. Cloning leaves you nothing to backup from. Cloning does not create a file that can be used to restore. Imaging does.

Cloning and imaging are entirely different processes..

While I've got your attention Igna, can you explain to me, the difference between Imaging and Cloning, and examples of when it would be beneficial to use both?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[whs]

If I am understanding you guys correctly, in other posts, cloning or imaging is only advantageous if one needs to make room on their main drive?

I don't think so. Forget cloning. Imaging is done to enable you to recover from a tight spot (Virus, System failure, etc.).

Before you start imaging your C: partition, check in Disk Management whether you have a 100MB active System Partition. It may be a hidden partition, but in Disk Management you can see it. If that is the case, transfer your bootmgr first to C:. It is a 3 click operation like this: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/209885-bootmgr-move-c-easybcd.html This will make your life a lot easier later because you have to deal only with 1 partition which is C:.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

While I've got your attention Igna, can you explain to me, the difference between Imaging and Cloning, and examples of when it would be beneficial to use both?

Cloning: Not a backup. Used when things are going well, usually when you run out of space on C. You go buy a new internal drive and then clone from the existing C to the new drive, directly, in real-time (a half hour or so). Think of it as a simple copy of everything on C to a new C. Cloning does NOT create an "image" file that you put on an external and then "restore". When the cloning is done (assuming it worked), the new drive you just bought will boot and be entirely operational, just as the old C was.

Imaging: Is a backup, normally used to recover from a jam of some type, such as a badly fouled Windows install or a failed drive. An image CAN contain multiple partitions. When you make the image, an "image" file is made and stored on some other partition (preferably another drive). That "image" file is not bootable as it sits, but can be "restored" to another drive, at which point that drive would be bootable (if the imaging worked as expected). The image file takes up quite a bit of space. You need some sort of boot disk to restore the image file--usually a Linux or WinPE disk that is made within the imaging application before disaster strikes. Without a bootable recovery disk, you can't restore the image. An image file cannot be stored on any partition contained in the image file. Normally, you would make periodic images--weekly or monthly or so, depending on how often your system changes. An image made on July 19 can only restore you to the way you were on July 19, so if it is restored on October 24, the PC would no longer have any changes made after July 19.

Cloning and imaging can both be used when things are going well and you need to move to a new larger drive. Imaging can also be used to recover from a disaster, cloning cannot.

Imaging is more popular here because people here are backup-obsessed.

But for a simple transfer to a new drive when things are going well, cloning is a reasonable alternative.

Both can and do fail.

Don't get yourself in a situation where you are desperately counting on either of them. Have a fallback position for when they fail.

The primary reason to use them is to save time. You should always be able to survive without either.

I don't trust my data backups to imaging or cloning precisely because they are not foolproof. There are ways to backup data without imaging or cloning.

 

[jack1953]

While I've got your attention Igna, can you explain to me, the difference between Imaging and Cloning, and examples of when it would be beneficial to use both?

Cloning: Not a backup. Used when things are going well, usually when you run out of space on C. You go buy a new internal drive and then clone from the existing C to the new drive, directly, in real-time (a half hour or so). Think of it as a simple copy of everything on C to a new C. Cloning does NOT create an "image" file that you put on an external and then "restore". When the cloning is done (assuming it worked), the new drive you just bought will boot and be entirely operational, just as the old C was.

Imaging: Is a backup, normally used to recover from a jam of some type, such as a badly fouled Windows install or a failed drive. An image CAN contain multiple partitions. When you make the image, an "image" file is made and stored on some other partition (preferably another drive). That "image" file is not bootable as it sits, but can be "restored" to another drive, at which point that drive would be bootable (if the imaging worked as expected). The image file takes up quite a bit of space. You need some sort of boot disk to restore the image file--usually a Linux or WinPE disk that is made within the imaging application before disaster strikes. Without a bootable recovery disk, you can't restore the image. An image file cannot be stored on any partition contained in the image file. Normally, you would make periodic images--weekly or monthly or so, depending on how often your system changes. An image made on July 19 can only restore you to the way you were on July 19, so if it is restored on October 24, the PC would no longer have any changes made after July 19.

Cloning and imaging can both be used when things are going well and you need to move to a new larger drive. Imaging can also be used to recover from a disaster, cloning cannot.

Imaging is more popular here because people here are backup-obsessed.

But for a simple transfer to a new drive when things are going well, cloning is a reasonable alternative.

Both can and do fail.

Don't get yourself in a situation where you are desperately counting on either of them. Have a fallback position for when they fail.

The primary reason to use them is to save time. You should always be able to survive without either.

I don't trust my data backups to imaging or cloning precisely because they are not foolproof. There are ways to backup data with imaging or cloning.

Well done! Even I understood that!!

Let me ask this. I have a daily backup scheduled in Acronis. Will each backup be a separate backup, or will it overwrite the same files?

Jack

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Let me ask this. I have a daily backup scheduled in Acronis. Will each backup be a separate backup, or will it overwrite the same files?

Jack

I quit using Acronis, so I don't recall if it does only full and separate backups. Some imaging applications also do "incremental" backups.

The consensus is that full backups are simpler, easier to manage, and less likely to cause complications.

You can always give an image a unique name to avoid over-writes, but that should happen by default anyway. Normally, you would want to be able to identify the date of an image file by sight--by looking at the name.

Daily backups of Windows is probably excessive unless you have an unusual situation. Full backups of 10 or 15 gigs each will quickly take up a lot of space.

Daily backups of personal data, on the other hand, is NOT excessive, but I wouldn't rely on images for that purpose.

 

[wanchoo]

As for keeping images safely backed up, about once in six months or so I burn the latest image on spanned rerecordable CDs/DVDs. In the event of everything going for a six I can then at least fall back upon an up to six month old image. But there has to be an end to paranoia somewhere.

 

[jack1953]

As for keeping images safely backed up, about once in six months or so I burn the latest image on spanned rerecordable CDs/DVDs. In the event of everything going for a six I can then at least fall back upon an up to six month old image. But there has to be an end to paranoia somewhere.

I think I'm still reeling after my 8 year old Dell finally crashed, and it's been quite an adventure getting things restored. I have a small business and it's really critical that I can be better prepared for this, if and when it happens again!!

 

[whs]

Did you consult the imaging tutorials I posted:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/73828-imaging-free-macrium.html?ltr=I
http://www.sevenforums.com/backup-restore/128494-imaging-strategies.html

And don't forget your bootmgr.

 

[seavixen32]

Like others, I have my personal data on a separate partition from the system partition that contains Windows and my installed programs.

I create a system image backed up to an external hard drive each time I either install or uninstall a program, and then use Microsoft's SyncToy to update my personal data that is also backed up to an external hard drive.

Download: SyncToy 2.1 - Microsoft Download Center - Download Details

Using the Echo facility tracks any changes to the data on the internal data partition and syncs it to the external data partition.