BSOD's, mostly during first boots of the day

[Wyst3r]

Hi,

I built a new system roughly 2 months ago, and initially (several weeks) it all seemed to work perfectly. Then a month ago, after (or possibly slightly before, i'm not entirely certain) installing Kaspersky Internet Security 2012 and a new DVD reader/writer i started getting some BSOD's with lots of diffrent error messages in conjunction with the first boot of the day. I usually got 2-3 BSOD's that occured either during the startup process or within a ~5 minute window after startup. After those initial BSOD's, computer worked perfectly for the rest of the day. Naturally i tried to uninstall Kasperky and also unplug the DVD reader but this didn't seem change anything.

Now a few days ago the problems seemed to get worse, with more BSOD's on startup and even later on during the day. Since then i have been trying to find and isolate the problem. I tried looking through the minidumps but they didn't seem to point me towards any specific driver.

I ran memtest86+ for 15 hours (7 passes) and got 0 errors.

I also tried unplugging all extra harddrives and only keep my SSD boot drive but this didn't help either.

Yesterday i unplugged the SSD drive and instead plugged in one of my older drives. I installed a fresh copy of Windows 7 on this drive (same OS as on the SSD drive) and i also installed the same drivers ( i think ) as on the SSD drive. So far, i haven't had a single BSOD when booting from this drive. (not even on first boots of the day)

I'm not sure if this is helpful info but i can run Safe Mode when booting from SSD drive and it'll work just fine.

Anyway, all help with this is greatly appreciated.

/Wyst3r

 

[Arc]

Welcome aboard.

Your crashes does not show any cause clearly, but apparently it is either a driver fault, or memory corruption.

Before blaming the memory, let us verify if it is caused by any driver or not. Enable Driver Verifier to monitor the drivers.

Driver Verifier - Enable and Disable

Run Driver Verifier for 24 hours or the occurrence of the next crash, whichever is earlier.

Let us know the results, with the subsequent crash dumps, if any.

 

[Wyst3r]

Okay, i ran the verifier for 24 hours and didn't get any crashes.

 

[Arc]

Disable verifier then.

I will ask my friend Dave to have a look who knows a lot about cold boot crashes.

 

[Dave76]

Hi Wyst3r, welcome to Seven Forums.

Looks like you have narrowed it down to the SSD.
Have you been running the Intel ToolBox?
Intel® Solid-State Drive Toolbox version 3.0.5

What firmware version do you have?
Check the 'Firmware Update' button in the Toolbox, read txt at the bottom.
Be sure to make an Image backup of your SSD before updating the firmware, just to be safe.

Check the Power setting for the SSD.
In Windows Power Options (Control Panel), click Change plan settings, and then the Advanced settings for your power plan. Under Hard Disk, set Turn off hard disk after: to Never.

What storage drivers are you using?
msachi or Intel RST?
If Intel RST, what version, the newest version (11.​6.​0.​1030) is having some issues.
Install the 11.​2.​0.​1006 version.
Intel® Rapid Storage Technology

 

[Wyst3r]

I hadn't run the toolbox before but i installed it now. The firmware now says it's version 300i (not sure what i had before i installed the toolbox).

About the storage drivers, appareantly i hadn't installed RST at all (no idea what drivers i was running, i couldn't find where to check this?). I got the 11.​2.​0.​1006 now though so we'll see if that changes anything.

Anyway, today when i cold booted the system, i got one of those "long beeps" during the "starting windows" and screen just went black. After that though, no crashes or BSOD's (yet). So the problems that i had before seems to be gone, but i'll probably wait a few more days before celebrating...

 

[Dave76]

Good news that your system is more stable.

In the Toolbox, home page, it lists the Firmware Version, is that where you saw the 300i?
Select the 'Firmware Update' button, post what it says at the bottom of the page.
If it says the below quote then you have the newest firmware.

The selected Intel SSD contains current firmware as of this Toolbox release. Click Check For Updates to look for a newer version of the Intel SSD Toolbox, which may include newer firmware.

You have to click the 'Update' button if you want/need to update the firmware, be sure to make a SSD backup image before trying to update the SSD firmware.
You should run the Toolbox 'Intel SSD Optimizer' once a week, you can schedule it, just check to make sure it is actually running the optimizer when scheduled.
Select the 'System Tuner' button and follow any 'Recommended Action'.


Couldn't find a mention of a single long beep for your motherboard, are you sure it was a single long beep?
Asus Support For Motherboard P8Z77-V PRO

1.4.2 If there is beep, please try to judge from the beep code as the following steps, if the problem still remains after the troubleshooting, please contact your retailer for a check.

1.4.2.1 Memory issue: Beep (1 long 2 short)
A Clean the Golden Finger of memory
B Clean the memory slots
C Leave only one memory stick to test
D If convenient, please change different memory to test again

1.4.2.2 Graphics card issue: Beep (1 long 3 short)
A. Clean the Golden Finger of graphics card
B. Clean the graphics card slots
C. Try to test the onboard graphics card if there is onboard VGA integrated
D. If convenience, please change different graphic cards to test again

1.4.2.3 CPU issue: Beep (5 short)
A. Check whether the CPU is in our CPU support list
B. Check whether there are any damagers of your CPU or CPU socket.
C. .Check whether the CPU fan is correctly connected
D. Check whether the ATX_12V power cable is connected well
E. If possible try to test with another CPU

Is it stable on a cold boot?
Next time you cold boot, first take off the side panel and watch the upper right of the mobo, there are led lights that will stay on if there are problems. See your manual for the light location for the components.
See section 2.2.6 of you motherboard manual: Asus P8Z77-V PRO

A long beep and x short beeps are either the RAM or graphics card problem.
First thing to do is remove the RAM and/or graphics card, check that the mobo slots are clean and debris free, check the cards connection points are clean.
Re-seat the cards, make sure they are firmly seated, the lock down pins should click into place. Sometimes you need to put quite a bit of force to seat them.

I noticed your BIOS is version 1015, the newest version at your mobo site is 1504.
The two newer versions list description improvements: Improve system and memory compatibility.
Update to version 1504.
EZ Flash 2 - the safest way to update BIOS

Let us know how your system is running.

 

[Wyst3r]

If it says the below quote then you have the newest firmware.

Yes, that's what it says.

are you sure it was a single long beep?

I guess it's possible i missed some of the short beeps since i didn't know the structure of these beeps before. If i ever get them again i'll make sure to count the short beeps.

Is it stable on a cold boot?

Today it was very stable, no problems at all.

 

[Dave76]

Glad to hear it, if it is still stable in 4-5 days you can mark this thread 'Solved'.

Don't forget to run the Toolbox 'Intel SSD Optimizer' once a week.

 

[Wyst3r]

Okay the computer did run well for 2 days but now the problems have started to come back. I got 2 BSOD's yesterday, one after cold booting and another in the evening. And today i've gotten 2 BSOD's so far, both shortly after cold boot. Similar error messages as before (Modification of critical system code detected, PAGE_FAULT_IN_NON_PAGED_AREA).

I haven't updated the BIOS yet though so i guess i should try that.

 

[Dave76]

Post the full BSOD report.

Update your BIOS to 1504.
New model boards usually need to fix issues with BIOS updates, you should check this if you're having any issues.

Did you check the Power setting for the SSD?
In Windows Power Options (Control Panel), click Change plan settings, and then the Advanced settings for your power plan. Under Hard Disk, set Turn off hard disk after: to Never.

This reduces or turns off power to hard drives during sleep/hibernate modes and can cause issues with SSDs.

 

[Wyst3r]

Minidumps attached.

All the BSOD's i got today had ntfs.sys mentioned in the blue screen text. I'm guessing this only strenghtens the suspicion that these problems are caused by the SSD?

Did you check the Power setting for the SSD?

Yes i did. Hasn't fixed the problems though.

Update your BIOS to 1504.

I'll make sure to do it today.

 

[Dave76]

When the debugger can't find the exact cause it blames the closest thing it can find, Windows files or kernel, these are usually not the cause.
You can check this by doing a Clean install.

Did you do this in the Intel Toolbox?

Select the 'System Tuner' button and follow any 'Recommended Action'.

Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) Posting Instructions
When posting a new crash dump, include all System File Collection and health reports. They contain valuable information that we can use to find the cause of the crashes.
Need this to check on your last crashes, it will help to identify the cause.

Most of the last crashes are caused by 'Memory Corruption'.
Just because RAM passes memtest86+ a couple times doesn't mean the RAM is not causing problems.
This is just a fact of electronic components.
Can you download CPUZ and post a snip of the CPU, Mainboard, Memory, and SPD tabs.
For posting the information , enter 'Snipping tool' in the Start button > Search box, hit enter. Select the area you want to post and save to a convenient place.
How to Post a Screenshot in Seven Forums
Go to your BIOS and tell us what the CPU, RAM and the CPU integrated memory controller voltages are.

Use Real Temp , to check the CPU temps when at idle, under load and/or testing.
Let us know the minimum and maximum temps you get.

For testing purposes:

• Un-install Kaspersky Internet Security 2012, install Microsoft Security Essentials*- Free Antivirus for Windows
  Un-install Kaspersky from the control panel, then run Kaspersky Anti-virus Removal Tool - Removal tool for Kaspersky Lab products
• Disconnect the new DVD reader/writer

These can be installed/connected later after the cause is found.

Let me know when you update the BIOS.
This may help your issues.

 

[Wyst3r]

Did you do this in the Intel Toolbox?

Yes.

When posting a new crash dump, include all System File Collection and health reports. They contain valuable information that we can use to find the cause of the crashes.
Need this to check on your last crashes, it will help to identify the cause.

Sry. I have the full reports attached to this post.

Go to your BIOS and tell us what the CPU, RAM and the CPU integrated memory controller voltages are.

I couldn't find the voltage for cpu integrated memory controller, or at least i don't know what it's be labeled by in the BIOS, so i wrote down all the voltages i could find:

CPU: 1.144V
DRAM: 1.501V
CPU PLL: 1.813V
PCH: 1.059V
VCCSA: 0.925V
3.3V: 3.408V
5V: 5.240V
12V 12.192V

Use Real Temp , to check the CPU temps when at idle, under load and/or testing.
Let us know the minimum and maximum temps you get.

Idle(min/max): 33/35 33/35 30/33 34/36
When running Load Tester at 100%: 38/52 39/52 37/50 38/52

Can you download CPUZ and post a snip of the CPU, Mainboard, Memory, and SPD tabs.

View attachment 235456
View attachment 235457
View attachment 235458
View attachment 235459

Let me know when you update the BIOS.

I did it yesterday. However, it didn't solve any of the problems.

 

[Dave76]

Can you un-install/disconnect these?

For testing purposes:

• Un-install Kaspersky Internet Security 2012, install Microsoft Security Essentials*- Free Antivirus for Windows
  Un-install Kaspersky from the control panel, then run Kaspersky Anti-virus Removal Tool - Removal tool for Kaspersky Lab products
• Disconnect the new DVD reader/writer

These can be installed/connected later after the cause is found.

I know you un-installed Kaspersky previously and didn't see any difference, it may have caused an issue that we need to find and fix.
Testing with it removed, run the Kaspersky Anti-virus Removal Tool, may lead to results.

What is you ambient temp?
The Hyper 212 Evo should be cooler at idle, unless your room temp is high.

What is Load Tester?

Let's look at the SSD again.
From your first post:

I'm not sure if this is helpful info but i can run Safe Mode when booting from SSD drive and it'll work just fine.

Actually, this indicates a non Windows driver or possibly OS file corruption.
Option 1:
1. Un-install Kaspersky with the control panel > Programs and features
2. Run the Kaspersky Anti-virus Removal Tool
3. Install MSE
4. Run the System File Checker, three times with re-boots

SFC /SCANNOW Command - System File Checker​

Regardless of what it says the first time, run it three times with re-boots after each run.​

5. Check for stability

If it's not stable, option 2:
1. Secure Erase the SSD
2. Clean Install Windows 7
3. Test for stability
* Use MSE for anti Virus for testing purposes.
If it is stable, you can remove MSE and install the AV of choice, if it crashes then you know the cause.

If it's still not stable, Option 3:
For the VCCIO voltage (IMC: Integrated Memory Controller) use the VCCSA setting.
AI Tweaker Menu > VCCSA voltage, set to 'Manual' and increase to 1.100v.
Change the DRAM to 'Manual' and bump to 1.550v.

For a quick test run the OCCT CPU test, it will test some RAM also.
OCCT stability checking tool
Run the CPU:OCCT test for at least 30 minutes, be sure to monitor your CPU and GPU temps.
Set the time before you start.
When its done, pass or fail, it will make some graphs. Post these here as they are useful for analyses.

After this test, pass or fail, run memtest86+ again for 7 full passes, best to run overnight.
If you get any errors, stop the test.

Your last two crashes are the same as the previous crashes.

STOP 0x0000003B: SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION 
Usual causes:  System service, Device driver, graphics driver, ?memory
Probably caused by : [COLOR="Red"]memory_corruption[/COLOR]
EXCEPTION_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000005 - The instruction at 0x%08lx referenced memory at 0x%08lx. The memory could not be %s.
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  CODE_CORRUPTION
IMAGE_NAME:  memory_corruption
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  X64_MEMORY_CORRUPTION_ONE_BIT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STOP 0x00000109: CRITICAL_STRUCTURE_CORRUPTION
Usual causes:  Device driver, Hardware (Memory in particular)
Probably caused by : [COLOR="red"]memory_corruption[/COLOR]
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  CODE_CORRUPTION
IMAGE_NAME:  memory_corruption
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  X64_MEMORY_CORRUPTION_ONE_BIT

 

[Wyst3r]

Can you un-install/disconnect these?

Yes, Kaspersky is uninstalled now and i'm running MSE instead. The DVD writer hasn't been connected for a few weeks.

What is you ambient temp?
The Hyper 212 Evo should be cooler at idle, unless your room temp is high.

What is Load Tester?

I've never really done this before so i have no idea what the best (correct) way to test these things are. Load Tester is an application that came along with RealTemp which i just assumed could be used for this but maybe i was wrong?

I'm not entirely sure about room temp but it shouldn't be higher than normal. Probably somewhere around 20-25C?

Actually, this indicates a non Windows driver or possibly OS file corruption.
Option 1:
1. Un-install Kaspersky with the control panel > Programs and features
2. Run the Kaspersky Anti-virus Removal Tool
3. Install MSE
4. Run the System File Checker, three times with re-boots
SFC /SCANNOW Command - System File Checker
Regardless of what it says the first time, run it three times with re-boots after each run.
5. Check for stability

Did steps 1-4 (the 3 scans didn't find any problems). I won't be able to say much about stability until tommorrow since problems usually occur on cold boot.

For a quick test run the OCCT CPU test, it will test some RAM also.
OCCT stability checking tool
Run the CPU:OCCT test for at least 30 minutes, be sure to monitor your CPU and GPU temps.
Set the time before you start.
When its done, pass or fail, it will make some graphs. Post these here as they are useful for analyses.

Ran for 30 minutes. The resulting graphs are zipped and attached to this post.

After this test, pass or fail, run memtest86+ again for 7 full passes, best to run overnight.
If you get any errors, stop the test.

I'll post the results of this tommorrow.

 

[Dave76]

The idle temps aren't bad but, should be around 30°C.
When I had the Hyper 212+ on my system the max CPU core temps were 60°C or less running Prime95, below 30°C at idle.
Yours are max about 74°C running OCCT.
Haven't used Load Tester before, I always use OCCT, Prime95 or Intel Burn Test.
Your CPU max core temp is 77.6°C.
Intel® Core™ i7-2600K Processor
Take the Tcase temp and add 5°C to get max core temp.

You should remove your CPU cooler, clean with Isopropyl Alcohol, re-apply the thermal paste and install cooler.
Too much or too little thermal paste is bad.
Best Thermal Paste Application Methods

If you get a cold boot crash again, make the IMC and RAM voltage changes recommended above.
Cold boot issues are usually caused by CPU and/or RAM, bumping the voltages will likely correct the problem.
Since your dumps are blaming memory, let's start there. We may need to bump the CPU voltage a little, later.

Let me know the results.

 

[Wyst3r]

Alright, it seems that upping the RAM voltage *may* have done the trick. I'm on my 4th day now (3 cold boots) without a single blue screen.

I realized yesterday that i forgot to up the IMC voltage though, should i change that?

Also i guess this might be worthless info now if the problem is solved but i did run the second memtest and got 0 errors again (7 full passes).

 

[Dave76]

Glad to hear it's more stable.

Yes, increase the IMC voltage to 1.100v.
The DRAM and IMC voltage difference needs to be less than 0.500v to prevent CPU damage.
Always good to confirm tests, good that memtest86+ passed.

If your system is stable for two more days you can mark this thread 'Solved'.

 

[Wyst3r]

After upping the IMC voltage i got another crash within minutes (full report attached).

The DRAM and IMC voltage difference needs to be less than 0.500v to prevent CPU damage.

How come the default values had a diffrence greater than 0.5V?