Solved Building a new computer, help/info needed!

[Victor S]

You never know what new games will demand. I'm not current at all with the new stuff, so I don't know if this applies.
My I7 build is 3 years old, and I started with single GTS 250. And a Corsair 650w.
Might have been overkill, can't remember my calcs then. I know I never intended to run SLI.
Recently I started playing Borderlands, and wanted PhysX, so I turned i on. Dogged the fps.
My son had a spare GTS 250, so we put that in and dedicated it to PhysX. Plays fine with all effects.
Don't think I could have done it if I had low-balled the PSU on the build.

 

[kbrady1979]

Go to Newegg, look at the higher end Corsair and SeaSonic power supplies and you will see the quality that comes with them. Better yet, buy one, open it up and look at one. Look at the cabling, look at the features........that is why they are SOME of the best made. Also, SeaSonic makes power supplies for several companies, not just the high end Corsair units. I have personally bought a high end Seasonic power supply and when I opened the box, it was obvious why they are top of the line. From the foam packaging, to the storage pouches for the extra cables to the velvet bag the power supply comes in, it is high end. I've seen other power supplies that are reliable, feature-rich and perform just fine that are quite a bit cheaper........but they aren't on the same level as the high end Corsair/SeaSonic units.

Lists don't mean as much as holding one in your hands and knowing that every dollar you spent was well worth it. And with the warranty that Corsair and SeaSonic has, these PSU's will follow you around for several years. I'm not saying there aren't other great brands.......I'm saying that there are some that go the extra mile to make a top shelf product. He is free to get what he wants as I only suggested those two brands.

 

[TwoCables]

You never know what new games will demand. I'm not current at all with the new stuff, so I don't know if this applies.
My I7 build is 3 years old, and I started with single GTS 250. And a Corsair 650w.
Might have been overkill, can't remember my calcs then. I know I never intended to run SLI.
Recently I started playing Borderlands, and wanted PhysX, so I turned i on. Dogged the fps.
My son had a spare GTS 250, so we put that in and dedicated it to PhysX. Plays fine with all effects.
Don't think I could have done it if I had low-balled the PSU on the build.

These are very low-power video cards, and when a video card is dedicated to only PhysX processing, it will only pull a very tiny amount of power (very tiny in comparison to full 3D processing). So I'm saying that even the HX520 would have been overkill.

 

[TwoCables]

Go to Newegg, look at the higher end Corsair and SeaSonic power supplies and you will see the quality that comes with them. Better yet, buy one, open it up and look at one. Look at the cabling, look at the features........that is why they are SOME of the best made. Also, SeaSonic makes power supplies for several companies, not just the high end Corsair units. I have personally bought a high end Seasonic power supply and when I opened the box, it was obvious why they are top of the line. From the foam packaging, to the storage pouches for the extra cables to the velvet bag the power supply comes in, it is high end. I've seen other power supplies that are reliable, feature-rich and perform just fine that are quite a bit cheaper........but they aren't on the same level as the high end Corsair/SeaSonic units.

Lists don't mean as much as holding one in your hands and knowing that every dollar you spent was well worth it. And with the warranty that Corsair and SeaSonic has, these PSU's will follow you around for several years. I'm not saying there aren't other great brands.......I'm saying that there are some that go the extra mile to make a top shelf product. He is free to get what he wants as I only suggested those two brands.

Most of the higher-quality PSUs in that list that are not Corsair or SeaSonic are just as nice in these respects. That's a very carefully-made list by the PSU experts on Overclock.net. These aren't amateur self-proclaimed experts either.

Also, you haven't told me anything that I don't already know.

 

[kbrady1979]

The GTS 250 still required a 450 watt power supply, which is the same requirements the EVGA GTX 660Ti Superclocked card has. The point is, don't skimp on a power supply when the rest of your system depends on it to run right. Even if you don't care about features, modularity, packaging and warranty, if you spend $10-15 more on a power supply that is more than you need, so what? The magazine to my pistol holds 10 rounds of .45 ACP, when I've not yet used 1 round in self-defense........does that mean I need to carry just 1 bullet in my pocket like Barney Fife?


I never said those were the only two brands to get. I never said nothing else will work, I just said that they are probably some of the best across the board, for the money. The are very popular for a reason and the OP can decide what he wants and what will fit his needs. I've already bought one, I did the research on it, I know that SeaSonic at one time made units for over a dozen companies and I know when I pulled it out of the box that it wasn't a run of the mill power supply. I'll keep recommending those power supplies to anyone needing a recommendation on a power supply, just as you will recommend some from that list. It's all good in the hood.

 

[TwoCables]

The GTS 250 still required a 450 watt power supply, which is the same requirements the EVGA GTX 660Ti Superclocked card has. The point is, don't skimp on a power supply when the rest of your system depends on it to run right. Even if you don't care about features, modularity, packaging and warranty, if you spend $10-15 more on a power supply that is more than you need, so what? The magazine to my pistol holds 10 rounds of .45 ACP, when I've not yet used 1 round in self-defense........does that mean I need to carry just 1 bullet in my pocket like Barney Fife?

No, that's a 450W peak-rated PSU. Most 450W peak-rated PSUs have a continuous capacity of about 325-350W. The 650W power supply you have is a continuous-rated unit, meaning that it can deliver 650W 24/7 if ever needed. Its peak is much higher than 650W. The same is true for the HX520: it can deliver 520W 24/7 if it's ever needed, but its peak is way higher than 520W. I remember seeing a review somewhere of the HX520 showing that its absolute peak was at about 674W.

 

[kbrady1979]

The GTS 250 still required a 450 watt power supply, which is the same requirements the EVGA GTX 660Ti Superclocked card has. The point is, don't skimp on a power supply when the rest of your system depends on it to run right. Even if you don't care about features, modularity, packaging and warranty, if you spend $10-15 more on a power supply that is more than you need, so what? The magazine to my pistol holds 10 rounds of .45 ACP, when I've not yet used 1 round in self-defense........does that mean I need to carry just 1 bullet in my pocket like Barney Fife?

No, that's a 450W peak-rated PSU. Most 450W peak-rated PSUs have a continuous capacity of about 325-350W. The 650W power supply you have is a continuous-rated unit, meaning that it can deliver 650W 24/7 if ever needed. Its peak is much higher than 650W. The same is true for the HX520: it can deliver 520W 24/7 if it's ever needed, but its peak is way higher than 520W. I remember seeing a review somewhere of the HX520 showing that its absolute peak was at about 674W.

I have the X750. And a minimum recommended is a minimum recommended. The GTS 250 and the 660Ti both have a recommended minimum of 450 watts. I know you can get away with that, or even a little less, but it doesn't make any sense to just do the bare minimum. I would rather have an overpowered, overbuilt unit for scalability.

 

[TwoCables]

The GTS 250 still required a 450 watt power supply, which is the same requirements the EVGA GTX 660Ti Superclocked card has. The point is, don't skimp on a power supply when the rest of your system depends on it to run right. Even if you don't care about features, modularity, packaging and warranty, if you spend $10-15 more on a power supply that is more than you need, so what? The magazine to my pistol holds 10 rounds of .45 ACP, when I've not yet used 1 round in self-defense........does that mean I need to carry just 1 bullet in my pocket like Barney Fife?

No, that's a 450W peak-rated PSU. Most 450W peak-rated PSUs have a continuous capacity of about 325-350W. The 650W power supply you have is a continuous-rated unit, meaning that it can deliver 650W 24/7 if ever needed. Its peak is much higher than 650W. The same is true for the HX520: it can deliver 520W 24/7 if it's ever needed, but its peak is way higher than 520W. I remember seeing a review somewhere of the HX520 showing that its absolute peak was at about 674W.

I have the X750. And a minimum recommended is a minimum recommended. The GTS 250 and the 660Ti both have a recommended minimum of 450 watts. I know you can get away with that, or even a little less, but it doesn't make any sense to just do the bare minimum. I would rather have an overpowered, overbuilt unit for scalability.

They are referring to peak-rated PSUs. Most (if not all) peak-rated 450W power supplies have a continuous capacity of about 325-350W at best. This means that if they were to be sold as a continuous-rated PSU, then they would be sold as a 325-350W power supply (depending on the testing that would need to be done to figure out the exact rating it deserves). Some are so bad that they would only get a 300W rating for their continuous capacity. It depends on how the PSU does at various temperatures.

The AX750 is a continuous-rated PSU. Its peak is MUCH higher than 750W, sitting at about 875W. The AX750 can easily deliver 750W 24/7 as long as the PSU's temperature never exceeds 50°C. If it were to exceed 50°C, then its continuous capacity would go down as the temperature goes up. Cheaper continuous rated PSUs are only able to deliver their rated continuous wattage at either 30°C or 40°C. For example, the Corsair CX series are rated for 30°C. So if the PSU's temperature exceeds 30°C, then its continuous capacity decreases along with the temperature increase.

When you see a PSU requirement, it's talking about peak-rated PSUs. As a general rule of thumb, multiple the value by .70 to .75 and you'll get the approximate continuous rating you should look for. For example, the GTX 580 I have says the minimum PSU requirement is 600W. 600 x .70 is 420W, and 600 x .75 is 450W. This is absolutely correct according to this PSU calculator:

PSU Calc Final Release

I get 430W from it. As you can see from my system, I mentioned that my HX650 is overkill. I could have been just fine with a quality-made 450W power supply - except I found the HX650 at the same price as a 450W unit I wanted. Remember, I'm talking about continuous-rated PSUs.

 

[Layback Bear]

Layback Bears power supply choice method.
My max. computer requirements is 442W.
I have a quality 850W power supply.
Why would I do such a thing. Well it's the sweet spot. If for what ever reason I would or could run my system 100% for a long period of time my AX850 would not be working very hard. What I call the sweet spot.
When any power supply has to run at or close to it's max. it creates heat and noise. It also in most cases doesn't put out a clean amp/volt signal like it would if it was running in its sweet spot. It also gives me the ability to add just about anything I want without upgrading the power supply.
WARNING. Once you use a modular power supply you will be hooked on modular power supplies.
A modular power supply makes the assemble of a computer just a lot easier and neater. We all like easier but your computer will like neater. Keeping all those cable out of the way of proper air flow through the case.
P/S Pay attention on the amps on the rails not just total watts.

 

[kbrady1979]

Layback Bears power supply choice method.
My max. computer requirements is 442W.
I have a quality 850W power supply.
Why would I do such a thing. Well it's the sweet spot. If for what ever reason I would or could run my system 100% for a long period of time my AX850 would not be working very hard. What I call the sweet spot.
When any power supply has to run at or close to it's max. it creates heat and noise. It also in most cases doesn't put out a clean amp/volt signal like it would if it was running in its sweet spot. It also gives me the ability to add just about anything I want without upgrading the power supply.
WARNING. Once you use a modular power supply you will be hooked on modular power supplies.
A modular power supply makes the assemble of a computer just a lot easier and neater. We all like easier but your computer will like neater. Keeping all those cable out of the way of proper air flow through the case.
P/S Pay attention on the amps on the rails not just total watts.

^^This

 

[TwoCables]

Layback Bears power supply choice method.
My max. computer requirements is 442W.

How did you come to find this out?

I have a quality 850W power supply.
Why would I do such a thing. Well it's the sweet spot. If for what ever reason I would or could run my system 100% for a long period of time my AX850 would not be working very hard. What I call the sweet spot.

You're partially correct! I recommend reading these two articles:

On PSU Efficiency

PSU "50% Load" Myth

When any power supply has to run at or close to it's max. it creates heat and noise. It also in most cases doesn't put out a clean amp/volt signal like it would if it was running in its sweet spot.

Not with quality-made units like the AX850. Check out this review at JonnyGuru.com:

Corsair AX850 Review

It also gives me the ability to add just about anything I want without upgrading the power supply.
WARNING. Once you use a modular power supply you will be hooked on modular power supplies.
A modular power supply makes the assemble of a computer just a lot easier and neater. We all like easier but your computer will like neater. Keeping all those cable out of the way of proper air flow through the case.
P/S Pay attention on the amps on the rails not just total watts.

Yeah, you could have 4 x GTX 460s in your system and still be ahead.

 

[Victor S]

You get widely different PSU requirements using on-line calculators.
Thermaltake Power Supply Calculator 503w
ASUSTeK Computer Inc. -Support- Recommended Power Supply Wattage Calculator 800w

Terminology is different, but I put in as close to identical specs as I could.
Overclocking - I don't - changes it.
Removing a GTS 250, SLI and PhysX on the Thermaltake calculator knocks 503w down to 413w.
That was my original build, and I went with a Corsair 650w.
I'd really think putting a Kill-a-Watt on the power cord and doing a ballpark efficiency adjustment would get closer than these calculators.
I've read that PSU output degrades as they age. Don't know about that either.
It's just my "gut" feel that that going heavy on watts - +25-50% - is good insurance for a new build.
But I appreciate you input about overkill. Makes sense according to the Thermaltake calculator.
BTW, I was initially upset by the Newegg reviews when I did this build. I recall the Corsair being one with top ratings, but they were only 3 stars. Reviewers saying DOA, dying after a month, and bursting into flames.
Real horror stories. Same with the Asus P6T MB I bought. Ended up just forging ahead, as everything else was even worse. Everything has been flawless for 3 years. I wrote Newegg and suggested they put a "units sold" counter on their products. The assumption being that those with no problems don't bother giving bad reviews. Of course they pain no attention to me.

 

[TwoCables]

You get widely different PSU requirements using on-line calculators.
Thermaltake Power Supply Calculator 503w
ASUSTeK Computer Inc. -Support- Recommended Power Supply Wattage Calculator 800w

Terminology is different, but I put in as close to identical specs as I could.

Now try the PSU calculator I linked to. It is more accurate than these online ones. That's why it was created: to be the most accurate calculator available because it was recognized by the PSU experts that we have this problem that you just mentioned: online PSU calculators are not reliable.

The PSU experts who created it are true experts. They're not just amateur people who think they're experts. hehe

Overclocking - I don't - changes it.
Removing a GTS 250, SLI and PhysX on the Thermaltake calculator knocks 503w down to 413w.

Wow. That's inaccurate. Can you do the calculation again, except this time click the calculator's built-in Print button and then post a screenshot of that page it generates? I can show you what's making it inaccurate.

That was my original build, and I went with a Corsair 650w.
I'd really think putting a Kill-a-Watt on the power cord and doing a ballpark efficiency adjustment would get closer than these calculators.

Yeah, it would.

I've read that PSU output degrades as they age. Don't know about that either.

This doesn't affect quality-made units like yours enough to worry about it. The internal components are of high quality and are designed to last several years. It's the lower-quality units that you have to worry about.

It's just my "gut" feel that that going heavy on watts - +25-50% - is good insurance for a new build.

It can be if you know that your future requirements will call for it. That's not easy to predict though because each new generation of CPUs and GPUs requires less power than the previous. So the power requirement keeps getting lower and lower.

But I appreciate you input about overkill. Makes sense according to the Thermaltake calculator.
BTW, I was initially upset by the Newegg reviews when I did this build. I recall the Corsair being one with top ratings, but they were only 3 stars. Reviewers saying DOA, dying after a month, and bursting into flames.
Real horror stories. Same with the Asus P6T MB I bought. Ended up just forging ahead, as everything else was even worse. Everything has been flawless for 3 years. I wrote Newegg and suggested they put a "units sold" counter on their products. The assumption being that those with no problems don't bother giving bad reviews. Of course they pain no attention to me.

lol yeah Newegg's reviews are only good as entertainment.

 

[kbrady1979]

Is there anything wrong with the power supplies recommended? No? Alright then.

 

[TwoCables]

Is there anything wrong with the power supplies recommended? No? Alright then.

All I'm trying to do is provide knowledge so that an informed decision can be made rather than relying on guesswork and opinions.

 

[kbrady1979]

There is no guesswork involved, those are top notch power supplies.
FIN

 

[TwoCables]

There is no guesswork involved, those are top notch power supplies.
FIN

Yes there is, especially concerning how much power is actually needed.

 

[Britton30]

I trust Newegg's reviews. Period. Why you ask, Well I have written about some crappy items and they were published in all their negative glory. I know another member who has done the same.

PSU all have some peak/continuous rating of some sort. Having such a rating doesn't make one a good one though. The 80+ ratings take it all into account. Having a single 12V rail is desirable too.

 

[Layback Bear]

TwoCables I did it the Layback Bear simple way. Used a couple of those online calculators and a little thinking. If those calculators are off a little and most don't agree with each other. No big deal I got lots of power supply to compensate. If you are asking if I believe my computer draws that much power,no or have I use calculation, charts and graphs, test equipment no I have not. I just keep it simple. Works for me.

 

[kbrady1979]

That is subjective, he might feel he needs more power in order to prevent problems or to add scalability. There is no guesswork though. I appreciate what you were trying to do and inform people of the technical aspect of choosing a power supply, but it's easier to say hey, several people are running these with no problems and they are built right, at a good price. What are you adding to the mix? I don't remember anybody looking for scientific tests looking to match a system watt-for-watt.

He has my suggestion, and if he needs anymore advice, I'll be glad to help. I'm done with the back and forth with you. Go ahead and reply and get the last word in, you've not helped as much as you think.

Good day.