Solved Building a new computer, help/info needed!

[essenbe]

Twocables, it seems that the only arguement here is the theory of buying more than you need. I think both sides have their merits. It seems no one is arguing whether Corsair PSUs are good, only what size they should be. I can understand what you are saying and can see it has merit, I just would prefer to have way too much than too little. Plus, I am a constant upgrader and I don't want to upgrade my PSU as well as the rest of my rig.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Now for my two cents worth I see that somewhere it was mentioned that the GPU was rated at 450 watts abut that is only at full tilt isn't it? or does it use that at idle?
I was under the impression that any PSU will just provide the wattage that is required ie if the total use of the machine is say for arguments sake 250watts at any one instance then the PSU will just run that to the machine if you start to crank the machine up then that PSU will automatically adjust to that and the wattage goes up.
A bit like you depressing the accelerator pedal in a car it automatically adds more fuel/ air mixture into the engine or am I being too simplistic?

 

[TwoCables]

I trust Newegg's reviews. Period. Why you ask, Well I have written about some crappy items and they were published in all their negative glory. I know another member who has done the same.

PSU all have some peak/continuous rating of some sort. Having such a rating doesn't make one a good one though. The 80+ ratings take it all into account. Having a single 12V rail is desirable too.

Take the HX650 for example. Its 650W rating is a continuous rating, not a peak. This rating is based on 50°C, and this means that as long as the PSU's temperature never exceeds 50°C, then it can continuously deliver 650W. If the temperature exceeds 50°C, then the amount of power that it can continuously deliver goes down as the temperature goes up.

The 80+ has nothing to do with the PSU's capacity. It's referring to how much power is lost as heat during the conversion process from the raw power at the wall outlet to the useable power for the system.

Let's say a system is pulling 425W from a PSU. If that PSU is 80% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it will have to pull 531W from the wall outlet. If it's 85% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it would have to pull 500W from the wall outlet. If it's 90% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it will only have to pull 472W from the wall outlet.

The amount of power the system is pulling from the PSU is what counts, not what it's pulling from the wall outlet. So in all 3 examples above, the only thing that matters is the rated wattage of the PSU. The efficiency is unrelated to the PSUs capacity (or "rated wattage").

Regarding having a single +12V rail vs. a multi-rail:

Single Rail vs. Multi Rail *Explained*

Note: this is a playfully-written article. I think he was in an extra good mood that day.

 

[Britton30]

I like my rig over-powered with Mr. Fusion power generator with flux capacitor, 1.21 gigawatts.

 

[essenbe]

I trust Newegg's reviews. Period. Why you ask, Well I have written about some crappy items and they were published in all their negative glory. I know another member who has done the same.

PSU all have some peak/continuous rating of some sort. Having such a rating doesn't make one a good one though. The 80+ ratings take it all into account. Having a single 12V rail is desirable too.

And that would probably be me. It's true, they will publish it. The trick is reading the reviews and determining who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. There are also a few shills thrown in too. But, I do my research there and will continue. I know of no place who has more reviews on any piece of hardware than newegg. Just read carefully.

 

[TwoCables]

Yikes. It looks like I stirred up a bee's nest.

Now for my two cents worth I see that somewhere it was mentioned that the GPU was rated at 450 watts abut that is only at full tilt isn't it? or does it use that at idle?

That's the PSU recommendation to power the entire system. However, that's for peak-rated PSUs (it always is). Almost all 450W peak-rated PSUs can (or should be able to) deliver about 3250-350W continuously. Some of the cheapest 450W units would really only be able to do 300W continuously if you're lucky. The general rule of thumb is multiply the PSU recommendation by 0.70 - 0.75 and that's the wattage rating to look for when shopping around for quality-made units.

I was under the impression that any PSU will just provide the wattage that is required ie if the total use of the machine is say for arguments sake 250watts at any one instance then the PSU will just run that to the machine if you start to crank the machine up then that PSU will automatically adjust to that and the wattage goes up.
A bit like you depressing the accelerator pedal in a car it automatically adds more fuel/ air mixture into the engine or am I being too simplistic?

That's correct. The PSU is just a unit in between the computer and the wall outlet that is enabling the computer to use the raw power from the wall outlet. So, it's converting the raw power from the wall outlet into power that the computer can use as it needs it. Higher quality PSUs do a much better job at this and so their power delivery is usually cleaner and more stable. Lower-quality units are still able to convert the raw power to power that the computer can use, but the quality of the power delivery is questionable (risky). It can be dirty and unstable. Low quality PSUs can sometimes cause lock-ups, BSODs, and other computer problems.

 

[TwoCables]

I trust Newegg's reviews. Period. Why you ask, Well I have written about some crappy items and they were published in all their negative glory. I know another member who has done the same.

PSU all have some peak/continuous rating of some sort. Having such a rating doesn't make one a good one though. The 80+ ratings take it all into account. Having a single 12V rail is desirable too.

And that would probably be me. It's true, they will publish it. The trick is reading the reviews and determining who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. There are also a few shills thrown in too. But, I do my research there and will continue. I know of no place who has more reviews on any piece of hardware than newegg. Just read carefully.

The problem is, what if you're a customer who doesn't know how to tell the difference?

 

[Britton30]

Two Cables you just have a way with words, don't you? Apparently you do know more than everyone else since you have disagreed with almost any statements made here. I hope th OP realizes the good recommendations here and see through the smoke and mirrors.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

I trust Newegg's reviews. Period. Why you ask, Well I have written about some crappy items and they were published in all their negative glory. I know another member who has done the same.

PSU all have some peak/continuous rating of some sort. Having such a rating doesn't make one a good one though. The 80+ ratings take it all into account. Having a single 12V rail is desirable too.

Take the HX650 for example. Its 650W rating is a continuous rating, not a peak. This rating is based on 50°C, and this means that as long as the PSU's temperature never exceeds 50°C, then it can continuously deliver 650W. If the temperature exceeds 50°C, then the amount of power that it can continuously deliver goes down as the temperature goes up.

The 80+ has nothing to do with the PSU's capacity. It's referring to how much power is lost as heat during the conversion process from the raw power at the wall outlet to the useable power for the system.

Let's say a system is pulling 425W from a PSU. If that PSU is 80% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it will have to pull 531W from the wall outlet. If it's 85% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it would have to pull 500W from the wall outlet. If it's 90% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it will only have to pull 472W from the wall outlet.

The amount of power the system is pulling from the PSU is what counts, not what it's pulling from the wall outlet. So in all 3 examples above, the only thing that matters is the rated wattage of the PSU. The efficiency is unrelated to the PSUs capacity (or "rated wattage").

Regarding having a single +12V rail vs. a multi-rail:

Single Rail vs. Multi Rail *Explained*

Note: this is a playfully-written article. I think he was in an extra good mood that day.

Again for what my opinion is worth you are exactly right what is pulled from the mains is the % of the input current is proportional to the output wattage and the easiest way is to calculate the max output wattage using Ohms law is 40 amps X + 12v = 480 watts assuming therefore that means that roughly 567 watts is being pulled at the mains outlet given a 20% loss. .

I meant to add that is working on the 12v alone of course the other volts are in my tiny mind negligible in comparison in modern units.

 

[Layback Bear]

Now for my two cents worth I see that somewhere it was mentioned that the GPU was rated at 450 watts abut that is only at full tilt isn't it? or does it use that at idle?
I was under the impression that any PSU will just provide the wattage that is required ie if the total use of the machine is say for arguments sake 250watts at any one instance then the PSU will just run that to the machine if you start to crank the machine up then that PSU will automatically adjust to that and the wattage goes up.
A bit like you depressing the accelerator pedal in a car it automatically adds more fuel/ air mixture into the engine or am I being too simplistic?

Very good question. I will keep it simple because that is me.
I don't care if you have a 5000W power supply for your computer.
If you computer request 300W that is all the power supply will start producing and giving it to the components requesting it. When the request (demand) changes the power supply changes its output accordingly.
*** Example: Ohio Edison has millions of watt capability. What comes to my house is only what my house requires and ask for, no more. Hopefully no less. Because a power supply can produce xxxx does not mean it does it all the time. Just when asked to by the computer components.

It took me longer to search out the power supply I wanted looking through all the specs and checking out all the reviews than any other hardware in my computer. Remember the power supply and the tower/case is the roots of the computer tree.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...The trick is reading the reviews and determining who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. There are also a few shills thrown in too. But, I do my research there and will continue. I know of no place who has more reviews on any piece of hardware than newegg. Just read carefully.

That's true of reviews almost everywhere. What you say about NewEgg is definitely true.

 

[Wrenches]

I bought quite a bit from Newegg (and still buying) and I go by the reviews. Of course you'd have to take it with a grain of salt but I go by the dates and look for runs of bad batches in a time period.

For example I was looking for a HDD and I was looking at WD Blues and WD Blacks since they are popular but when I saw a run of bad batches in the reviews it wasn't a good time to buy 'em. I found a Seagate Constellation 1TB that only had 4 reviews in a span of months but it was 5 eggs all the way. Some even bought more than one drive and all praised highly of 'em. It cost more but I got my money's worth. I don't mind spending more for something that's gonna keep and have a longer warranty (5 years).

I built my system over two months ago, at first with an Intel Celeron G540 and 2 x 2gig Gskill 1600 mems on an Asrock H61M-DGS mobo. It's only gonna run the mems at 1066 but I like to over rate the mems for stoutness. Later I upgraded to i3-2105 and 2 x 4gig Corsair Vengeance 1600 mems now running at 1333. My power supply is a Corsair CX430 which is a third generation PSU and working well.

 

[Britton30]

@Drops and Wrenches, the Seagate Constellation drives are good ones I think, I have a 500GB one for my data drive. They are one of the few drives left with a 5 year warranty. Enterprise drives are designed for 27/7 use.
It seems fairly speedy as well.

 

[Drops]

I hope th OP realizes the good recommendations here and see through the smoke and mirrors.

Don't worry, I believe I've gathered what I needed. The whole PSU discussion seems to have gone through the roof, past the moon, and into another nebula since I last checked the thread, but oh well, I've still gotten enough information and knowledge to make a decision suiting my needs and desires.

I want to thank everybody that have bothered to take time from their busy lives to help me on my way towards acquiring myself a new computer, and I apologize to those that have offered advice without me replieng. I was planning to answer every single post but the response to the thread was rather overwhelming, which is not at all a bad thing, 'cause like I've said many time before already, I'm very grateful for all the help and advice I've received.

I'm gonna mark this thread as solved, as it has served it's purpose; Answering my question and increasing my knowledge as what to look for when it comes to today's components.

But this probably won't be the last you guys hear from me, oh no!
There's still the overclocking and what not after I've assembled everything, and who knows, I just might be back for some more advice and information.

Well that's all folks, again, thanks for all the help and have a good day/night!


- Drops

 

[essenbe]

I hope we have helped you. And never be worried about asking these kinds of questions. As you can see, we love it and look for threads like this. Good luck, and hang around. There is quite a bit you can learn here.

 

[Wrenches]

I'm sure you got the info you needed to start your quest.

 

[kbrady1979]

We'll be here for support when you decide to OC your system just a little bit, then a little bit more, then you go for a healthy overclock, then you push it to the limit! It's a sickness, especially when you see how easy it is to overclock that cpu. Quite a bit of knowledge floating around here, and most of us are happy to help. Also, not every thread turns out like this, so when you run into a problem or want advice, just ask!

 

[Britton30]

Good to hear Drops, spend all you want. We really enjoy helping people spend their money, lol.

Yes check out the Overclock forum when you're ready. We have some experts here (not me!) on the subject.

 

[incurablegeek]

I was looking for a HDD and I was looking at WD Blues and WD Blacks since they are popular but when I saw a run of bad batches in the reviews it wasn't a good time to buy 'em. I found a Seagate Constellation 1TB that only had 4 reviews in a span of months but it was 5 eggs all the way.

I read through this entire thread and didn't bounce up once out of my chair feeling that you had been given any bad advice. However:

What you said about WD HDD is emphatically not correct. I have 25 TB of them now (1, 2 and 3 TB'ers), and many more purchased over the years - both green and black. Never a problem with them - and I use them hard (awful pun I know, and completely unintended).

Seagate? Well, I wish to be popular on this forum, so I won't go into how they really are for the very low end of the mass market. Cheap, cheap, cheap. Barracuda excepted (from what I read but have never needed to buy).

I run a business so, despite multiple on site and in the cloud backups, HDD failures are not something I really want to happen. Until I ever see one fail, I will stick with WD.

Re PSU, all I can say is forget minimum requirements. BUY BIG! My 850 watters are the smallest I have ever used for myself; usually 1,000 watters. Why? I don't want them to be stressed. I want them to relax, do their jobs effortlessly and enjoy a long life.

Know that ABC Product "Gold" often means somebody's fudging on the specs. Stick with Seasonic. They make the best and don't screw around with the ratings. Corsair PSU's are said to be the best but in reality are hit and miss. I got 3 here that "missed" - Dead out of the box. (2 430 watt PSU's and the infamous TX650W, which really got a lot of hate mail). Seasonic manufacturers their own PSU's. Corsair and most other makers Do Not.

As of 2013 here's who really makes Corsair power supplies (please note that although I do not trust my life to Corsairs PSU's, I do trust my life to their RAM - got lots of that too.)

Corsair
AX-650 – Seasonic
AX-750 – Seasonic
AX-850 – Seasonic
AX-1200 – Flextronics

CX-400 – Seasonic
CX-430 – Channel Well(CWT)
CX-430 v2 – Channel Well(CWT)
CX-500 – Channel Well(CWT)
CX-500 v2 – Channel Well(CWT)
CX-600 – Channel Well(CWT)
CX-600 v2 – Channel Well(CWT)

Gaming Series GS600 – Channel Well(CWT)
Gaming Series GS700 – Channel Well(CWT)
Gaming Series GS800 – Channel Well(CWT)

HX-450 – Seasonic
HX-520 – Seasonic
HX-620 – Seasonic
HX-650 – Seasonic
HX-750 – Channel Well (CWT) (DSG platform)
HX-850 – Channel Well (CWT) (DSG platform)
HX-1000 – Channel Well (CWT)
HX-1050 – Channel Well (CWT)

TX-550M – Channel Well (CWT)
TX-650 – Seasonic
TX-650 v2 – Seasonic
TX-650M – Channel Well (CWT)
TX-750 – Channel Well (CWT) (PSH(older) platform)
TX-750 v2 – Seasonic
TX-750M – Channel Well (CWT)
TX-850 – Channel Well (CWT) (PSH(older) platform)
TX-850 v2 – Seasonic
TX-850M – Channel Well (CWT)
TX-950 – Channel Well (CWT) (DSG platform)

VX-450 – Seasonic
VX-550 – Channel Well (CWT) (PSH platform)

Corsair (known for its memory products) made a big impact with their initial Seasonic-built HX series. All products since have been top notch and are among the best performing, quietest, and best value PSU's. The Seasonic models are generally quietest, but all models have excellent performance. The AX series is the latest and greatest series.

Remember: PSU manufacturers are some of the best and brightest liars in the world.


​

 

[Wrenches]

Hmm.. no mention of a CX430 V3? It's what I have.