computer programmers?

[ShazaM]

I studied Computer Science at Elon University here in North Carolina and ended up quitting after 3 years and that's when I switched majors to Graphics Design.

The problem with Computer Science is that its one of those subjects/careers that fall under the category of "Having no life". Computer Science is a very very very time consuming field. You spend hours if not days on writing, fixing, reading, debugging code and you get time where you want to pull your hair out.

There are a few factors that can change that experience however, if you are very smart and very good at math and have good problem solving skills and very patient when solving these problems. You might explore an easier route.

Just like someone said, if you're really smart, you can start your own business. If you are a good coder, you can code anything. A good place to kind of test the waters and see what you'll run yourself into is Java. You can buy O'Reily's Head First for Java and skim through it. It's a cheap book, only $15 I think. That's what I used when I first started programming.

I would advice you to take the Computer Information Systems or IT route instead because it's a lot more high-level computing that's a lot more popular and I think it's a little more relaxed than programming.

Chances are, you study computer science, you will probably end up in a cubicle for a good time of your life.

 

[Mercurial]

I have assemble two computers on my own so i guess thats a start
i dont know where i can learn machine language
other than college but im not there yet

thanks looks cool
i would like to see your forums but i get:
Internal Server Error

i enjoy everything related to computers, and i would like to get a job in computer repairs to learn some more but i think you need to have an a+ certification and i dont have that


is there a program to use in order to make other programs??
like i think people use adobe dreamweaver to make web pages

lol. uhm try again. i get that sometimes

 

[petrossa]

I think what Antman meant by assembly is assembly language not assembling a computer.

for correctly translating Antmanese.

Should've added that whilst many think assembly is machine language, Antman means binary (i guess, i'm still stuck at Aardvark)

 

[petrossa]

lol. uhm try again. i get that sometimes

i guess he means a compiler? just swimming here.
at OP: STAY AWAY FROM VISUAL STUDIO, it's horrific and will put you off programming real fast.

 

[chuckr]

i dont know where i can learn machine language

danny,
AFAIK, nobody today deals with "machine-language" except computer experts,
but its nice to try to understand the 1's and 0's about what really goes on inside a computer.
When the '**** hits the fan', this is the stuff you gotta understand.
OTOH, everything that Windows or your Linux does, is in these books
(or the AMD equivalent of these books)...

This is a snake-pit of where to get started:
Here's some stuff to look at, and see if you can somehow make "heads or tails" out of it...
Be forewarned, this stuff is 7600 steps "WAY over your head" (right now)...

Don't try to read the stuff, just page thru it and look at the diagrams:
Points of interest are:
understand "bits and bytes", what a "register" is, and what an "opcode" is/does.
Forget about 99.8% of what's in there, just ignore it.
Breeze over:
6.3 what a MOV instruction does, ("MOV" from memory to AX register, for ex.)
6.4 what the ADD instruction does (nothing fancy, only the "ADD", specifically)
Link:
Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 1: Basic Architecture

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 1: Basic Architecture
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 1: Basic Architecture (Order Number 243190) is part of a three-volume set that describes the architecture and programming environment of all Intel Architecture (IA) processors. The other two volumes in this set are: [/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
  [*]The Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 2: Instruction Set Reference (Order Number 243191).
  [*]The Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 3: System Programming Guide (Order Number 243192).[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 1, describes the basic architecture and programming environment of an IA processor; the Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 2, describes the instruction set of the processor and the opcode structure. These two volumes are aimed at application programmers who are writing programs to run under existing operating systems or executives. The Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 3 describes the operating-system support environment of an IA processor, including memory management, protection, task management, interrupt and exception handling, and system management mode. It also provides IA processor compatibility information. This volume is aimed at operating-system and BIOS designers and programmers. [/FONT]

Link:
Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 2: Instruction Set Reference Manual

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 2: Instruction Set Reference Manual
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 2: Instruction Set Reference (Order Number 243191) is part of a three-volume set that describes the architecture and programming environment of all Intel Architecture processors.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 1, describes the basic architecture and programming environment of an Intel Architecture processor; the Intel Architecture Soft-ware Developer's Manual, Volume 2, describes the instructions set of the processor and the opcode structure. These two volumes are aimed at application programmers who are writing programs to run under existing operating systems or executives. [/FONT]

Link:
Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual Volume 3: System Programming

Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual Volume 3: System Programming


The Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 3: System Programming (Order Number 243192) is part of a three-volume set that describes the architecture and programming environment of all Intel Architecture processors.
The Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 3, describes the operating-system support environment of an Intel Architecture processor, including memory management, protection, task management, interrupt and exception handling, and system management mode. It also provides Intel Architecture processor compatibility information. This volume is aimed at operating-system and BIOS designers and programmers.

Here's a link to what some "real programmers" say that they're doing (Math stuff):
45 videos:
YouTube - nvidiatesla's Channel

NVIDIA Tesla Personal Supercomputer

This should either 'pique your interest' or 'cool you off'...

BTW, I ain't got no "certification" in nutthin',
just did some computer work, here and there:

http://www.sevenforums.com/chillout...ting-systems-have-you-used-13.html#post209157

 

[petrossa]

danny,
AFAIK, nobody today deals with "machine-language" except computer experts,
but its nice to try to understand the 1's and 0's about what really goes on inside a computer.

well put. I'd add tot that to begin assembly language with a very simple 8bit processor. The principle is the same, and once you understand the workings of for ex a 8086 it's easier to understand the more advanced instructions

 

[chuckr]

well put. I'd add to that to begin assembly language with a very simple 8bit processor. The principle is the same, and once you understand the workings of for ex a 8086 it's easier to understand the more advanced instructions

The Intel books seem to show 32 bits, and I couldn't find any 16 bitter, which I would have preferred to post.

Maybe I can find something 'cleaner' than the Intel stuff, that can get across the fundamentals, without the hodge-podge of Intel architecture.

The 8086 is a 16 bit chip. You might be confusing that with the 8088 chip in the IBM-PC.
Internally, the 8088 was exactly an 8086, but with an external 8 bit data bus (due to hw designs at the time).

 

[dannyp32]

I studied Computer Science at Elon University here in North Carolina and ended up quitting after 3 years and that's when I switched majors to Graphics Design.

The problem with Computer Science is that its one of those subjects/careers that fall under the category of "Having no life". Computer Science is a very very very time consuming field. You spend hours if not days on writing, fixing, reading, debugging code and you get time where you want to pull your hair out.

There are a few factors that can change that experience however, if you are very smart and very good at math and have good problem solving skills and very patient when solving these problems. You might explore an easier route.

Just like someone said, if you're really smart, you can start your own business. If you are a good coder, you can code anything. A good place to kind of test the waters and see what you'll run yourself into is Java. You can buy O'Reily's Head First for Java and skim through it. It's a cheap book, only $15 I think. That's what I used when I first started programming.

I would advice you to take the Computer Information Systems or IT route instead because it's a lot more high-level computing that's a lot more popular and I think it's a little more relaxed than programming.

Chances are, you study computer science, you will probably end up in a cubicle for a good time of your life.

yeah i dont like the fact that it might be very time consuming either, but you gotta sacrifice to be successful
Shazam i also like graphic design and drawing
well i am ranked 7th in my high school class and im planning on going to a UC (university of California) i do have some good math skills and i am patient as well. The only time ive been challenged with critical thinking was in my geometry class so im sure how good i am at that
"Computer information systems or it route"
i would have to research more about those careers because i dont know exactly what they could do for a living
but if its related to computers then chances are i will enjoy it

i guess he means a compiler? just swimming here.
at OP: STAY AWAY FROM VISUAL STUDIO, it's horrific and will put you off programming real fast.

What would you recommend to start off with
i have heard that it is good to start off with java, c, or visual basic
ive also heard that if you start off with c++ then everything else will be very easy after that
what do you guys think
is there a certain programming language that is used a lot more than th rest
or is everything used mixed together to make one application
@chuckr
i have tried Windows xp vista 7
linux (ubuntu 8.10 & 9.04, linux mint 6 & 7, open suse, mandriva 2009, fedora 11, and sabayon) itried all of them either on a live cd or on virtualbox, and my favorite one is sabayon because it has my favorite colors and design, but the one that is easiest for me to use is ubuntu.
i have also tried mac os x on vmware
and open solaris 2009 but i didnt like it very much
thank you for the links i will look at all of them


it interest me how pieces of metal (all of the hardware) use two numbers to create this visual ui for us to see and use and can even be controlled wirelessly

one of my biggest curiosities is how is it done????
can i have a very simple example or some way to explain it a little

like do you write this : d;lif; oasd;lkfj;liajjsl ;isdj (exaggerating) and then bammmm!! tune up utilities 2009 comes out on the computer?

how is it done???
do you need another software or is everything simple writing ( like abcdefg )??

edit: i found these tutorials and the guy uses a software called rebol REBOL Technologies to convert the programming language into an application
Does everyone need to use something like rebol
YouTube - computer programming tutorial by nick antonaccio

 

[petrossa]

The 8086 is a 16 bit chip. You might be confusing that with the 8088 chip in the IBM-PC.
Internally, the 8088 was exactly an 8086, but with an external 8 bit data bus (due to hw designs at the time).

actually i was thinking 6502 when i posted but switched during typing to the 80 because it's better known. Forgot to adjust the 8bit.

The 6502 has a real simple instruction set.

 

[petrossa]

more bad news OP:
Glory days IT are over?

 

[chuckr]

actually i was thinking 6502 when i posted but switched during typing to the 80 because it's better known. Forgot to adjust the 8bit.

The 6502 has a real simple instruction set.

The 6502 does ring a bell about the rep-card...

Liked that Z-80 (alternate register set for task-switching?), but Motorola 32-bit was my top choice, at the time...

Gonna have to find those big fat 3 vol. books I bought back then:
Everything about all uProcessors currently manufactured.
(Back around 1928!) :roflmao:
Ever see "Pirates of Silicon Valley" ?

 

[petrossa]

aaahhh my first assembly program, bbc basic with inline assembly on a whatchmacallit with a 6502. Acorn that it.

Big square thing with odd coloured keys.

1928, did you know it was the halfsister of lord Byron, Augusta Lovelace who actually came with the idea of a programmable computer in the mid 19th century?. Seems he had a torrid affair with her.

Not many people know that

 

[dannyp32]

haha i did a report about ada lovelace and her notes

did you know the first computer bug was actually a moth stuck in the machine thats why they started calling them bugs
i thought that was pretty funny

 

[chuckr]

Ah yes,
The "Ada" programming language:

The US Department of Defense mandated "Standard-programming-language"...

Went to school in San Jose, Digital Equipment Corp.
Very good instructor and relaxed classes.
Isolated room in cafeteria for the evil-devil smokers.
Began conversion of FORTRAN missile-tracking stuff to "Ada".
Another two bite the dust:
DEC destroyed by Compaq/HP,
Ada never came...

Bug:
Software bug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The invention of the term is often erroneously attributed to Grace Hopper, who publicized the cause of a malfunction in an early electromechanical computer.[4] A typical version of the story is given by this quote:
“ In 1946, when Hopper was released from active duty, she joined the Harvard Faculty at the Computation Laboratory where she continued her work on the Mark II and Mark III. Operators traced an error in the Mark II to a moth trapped in a relay, coining the term bug. This bug was carefully removed and taped to the log book September 9th 1945 [sic]. Stemming from the first bug, today we call errors or glitch's [sic] in a program a bug.[5] ” Hopper was not actually the one who found the insect, as she readily acknowledged. And the date was September 9, but in 1947, not 1945.[6][7] The operators who did find it (including William "Bill" Burke, later of the Naval Weapons Laboratory, Dahlgren Va.),[8] were familiar with the engineering term and, amused, kept the insect with the notation "First actual case of bug being found." Hopper loved to recount the story.[9]
While it is certain that the Mark II operators did not coin the term "bug", it has been suggested that they did coin the related term, "debug". Even this is unlikely, since the Oxford English Dictionary entry for "debug" contains a use of "debugging" in the context of airplane engines in 1945 (see the debugging article for more).

Pertinent PS:
Friend of mine wrote code in Ada (govt contract). His modules worked.
The C-something modules didn't. Moths...
Lady-in-charge 'downsized' him.
He's also still unemployed...
Physics major, U of Ga.
He and I attended same DEC school.

 

[petrossa]

haha i did a report about ada lovelace and her notes

did you know the first computer bug was actually a moth stuck in the machine thats why they started calling them bugs
i thought that was pretty funny

did you put her love affair with Byron in it?

 

[dannyp32]

i dont want this topic to drift into a different one...
would you consider Computer Information Systems or IT to be easier than computer programming

 

[Antman]

<off topic> Redirect </off>

 

[fseal]

Aw, you guys are way too down on programming as a career. It has changed over the last few decades but it is still a strong, vital, high paying career for anyone that is good at solving puzzles.

The offshoring of coding jobs is not as bad as people say. Most every case, I've personally seen has come back to bite the PHBs hard and domestic coders were needed to clean up the mess.

I've personally worked for an asian company twice because decent coders are still not to be found over there in any great number. Offshore companies that CARE about the code they produce actually come to the US to get it done. It could be another few decades before anything significant changes there.

Today there are also a lot more specialties to get into with varying levels of technicality and creativity. Embedded systems and of course network coding are two of the biggest general fields going today. But gaming and other entertainment fields are also HUGE for coders, custom code is required all the time.

I've been a software engineer/programmer professionally for 25 years and most of the people I know are too and things are more vibrant today than ever. Even in this horrible economic turn down the emloyment rate is not so bad.

Maybe I've just been lucky or maybe I'm some kind of brilliant mind, but probably neither. If you think you have a propensity for it and if coding excites you (I still get a giddy feeling when coding up something cool after over 30 years of doing it) then it is a great field to get into.

 

[Corpsecrank]

It's a tough call because there are so many people who can do the job and it also pays pretty poorly because of that fact.

I guess my experience has been that programming is over saturated and low paying and since it's a pain to do it really makes no sense to pursue a career in programming. It would be difficult to reach the top where you might make a half decent wage.

I took networking which was a nightmare but pays twice that of programming in this area. Still not the greatest choice and I plan to go back and take something different.

 

[DJG]

actually i was thinking 6502 when i posted but switched during typing to the 80 because it's better known. Forgot to adjust the 8bit.

The 6502 has a real simple instruction set.

The 6502 from MOS Technology (created by some ex-engineers from Motorola who later sued them and won) has two cycles : fetch & execute . The Amiga keyboard uses a 6502 or 6501. They differ in that one has an internal clock generator and the other one doesn't. My senior project in college was a dual CPU processor board which I wire-wrapped and used one of each, plus a couple of Motorola 6830 multi I/O chips and some 1MHz static ram chips .