Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

[Layback Bear]

NASA does not spend millions on anything, it's hundreds of millions or nothing.

 

[seekermeister]

I fail to understand why a weapons system such as this would ever need to be connected to the internet at all. It should be a totally discreet system.

 

[A Guy]

I fail to understand why a weapons system such as this would ever need to be connected to the internet at all. It should be a totally discreet system.

Have to agree with this. A Guy

 

[nitroman84]

I fail to understand why a weapons system such as this would ever need to be connected to the internet at all. It should be a totally discreet system.

Have to agree with this. A Guy

Yes, you would think with the funds and manpower they could develop a one off system completely isolated from any sort of outside intervention.

 

[lehnerus2000]

And the moral is ...

In a similar vein I seem to remember NASA spending millions of dollars on trying to design a ballpoint ink pen that would work in space as the ink wouldn't flow because of zero gravity.

Not sure whether it was the Russians who had the answer...........use a lead pencil instead.

Didn't we get pump-action pens from that research?

To be fair to NASA, a lot of these wasted $ are the result of politicians cancelling budget funding just before the projects can be completed (e.g. the Space Shuttle replacement, the space telescope, etc.).

NASA: "We need another few billion to finish this $20 billion project."
Politician: "Tough."
A few days later ...
Politician: "NASA has just wasted another $20 billion. This is an outrage!"

The "exploding Roman Candle configuration" of the old Space Shuttle, was a result of political interference and manoeuvring.

I fail to understand why a weapons system such as this would ever need to be connected to the internet at all. It should be a totally discreet system.

Why is ANY military stuff still connected to the Internet?
Why are power stations and other infrastructure still connected to the Internet?

The moral of this story:

• Keep your original installation media (make sure it's in some sort of Read-Only format).
• Make regular backups.
• If it "absolutely, positively" has to remain secure, don't connect it to the Internet.

Additional
Does this remind anyone of Terminator 3?

 

[Corazon]

How to tell when your military jet plane runs Windows:

Plane is on fire, one wing shattered, hurtling at Mach 0.5 toward the ground. Pilot pulls the emergency eject lever on his seat. HUD interface asks: "Are you sure? [OK] [Cancel]"

 

[panais]

I wonder if missiles,electronics weapons and airplanes,can run in safe mode?:huh:

 

[Corazon]

LOOOOOL :roflmao:

 

[Stratos]

I fail to understand why a weapons system such as this would ever need to be connected to the internet at all. It should be a totally discreet system.

It's for periodic maintenance and operational monitoring. Contractors, also known as FSR's (Field Service Reps) are often deployed to troop training facilities to include operational theaters (in hostile territory) to support the military with their mission requirements.

Firmware/software updates are often installed using flash drives or while cabled in, via RS-232, USB or Ethernet connections.

This isn't about controlling something like a TOW missile where the controls needed are primarily steering based just to get to the target.

The type of virus being implemented is interesting though, I've read that they've tried numerous times to wipe the thing out of their systems only to have it come back, which leads me to think it's either an effective rootkit or something embedded into the OS (think Sandra Bullock's classic movie "The Net") where there's a hidden feature unknown to its users until recent.

 

[seekermeister]

I fail to understand why a weapons system such as this would ever need to be connected to the internet at all. It should be a totally discreet system.

It's for periodic maintenance and operational monitoring. Contractors, also known as FSR's (Field Service Reps) are often deployed to troop training facilities to include operational theaters (in hostile territory) to support the military with their mission requirements.

Firmware/software updates are often installed using flash drives or while cabled in, via RS-232, USB or Ethernet connections.

This isn't about controlling something like a TOW missile where the controls needed are primarily steering based just to get to the target.

The type of virus being implemented is interesting though, I've read that they've tried numerous times to wipe the thing out of their systems only to have it come back, which leads me to think it's either an effective rootkit or something embedded into the OS (think Sandra Bullock's classic movie "The Net") where there's a hidden feature unknown to its users until recent.

I really don't care why they do what they do, because there are better ways of doing things than the way that they are. It sounds to me that the military is lacking competent personnel within the ranks that know how to handle problems very well.

There is no such thing as an invincible virus. If they can't eradicate it, then they need to send some of their own people back to school, and find methods of updating that is safer than the internet.

 

[panais]

I fail to understand why a weapons system such as this would ever need to be connected to the internet at all. It should be a totally discreet system.

It's for periodic maintenance and operational monitoring. Contractors, also known as FSR's (Field Service Reps) are often deployed to troop training facilities to include operational theaters (in hostile territory) to support the military with their mission requirements.

Firmware/software updates are often installed using flash drives or while cabled in, via RS-232, USB or Ethernet connections.

This isn't about controlling something like a TOW missile where the controls needed are primarily steering based just to get to the target.

The type of virus being implemented is interesting though, I've read that they've tried numerous times to wipe the thing out of their systems only to have it come back, which leads me to think it's either an effective rootkit or something embedded into the OS (think Sandra Bullock's classic movie "The Net") where there's a hidden feature unknown to its users until recent.

I really don't care why they do what they do, because there are better ways of doing things than the way that they are. It sounds to me that the military is lacking competent personnel within the ranks that know how to handle problems very well.

There is no such thing as an invincible virus. If they can't eradicate it, then they need to send some of their own people back to school, and find methods of updating that is safer than the internet.

Exactly we dont talk about some gaming pc here.

We talk about national security!!

 

[seekermeister]

Policies such as these are the responsibility of the Commander-In-Chief. What's his name...Obama, or something like that? It seems to me that the liberals need to get their priorities in order, or this country is soon to come to a less than desirable end.

 

[lehnerus2000]

The real question is, ...

Policies such as these are the responsibility of the Commander-In-Chief. What's his name...Obama, or something like that? It seems to me that the liberals need to get their priorities in order, or this country is soon to come to a less than desirable end.

This sort of thing has been happening for as far back as I can remember (certainly since that "WarGames" movie) under Administrations of both persuasions.

I'm sure most people here have had one (or two) bad experiences with malware.
We learnt the lesson.
We have all taken steps to prevent it ever happening again (I know that I have).

The real question is, why can't the US military (with its unlimited budgets) learn the lessons that we have?

 

[seekermeister]

I agree that neither party is infallible, but I can't remember the Conservatives permitting anything like this before. Their blunders were more of either misinformation, misdirection on their part, either by ignorance or for political advantage or more often, mis-representation by their opposition. I consider something of this sort unforgivable. However, I'm sure that the Liberals don't feel that way, at least not enough to cause them to vote conservatively. They would vote for Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner, before turning to a Republican.

EDIT:

The real question is, why can't the US military (with its unlimited budgets) learn the lessons that we have?

This question makes it appear that the problem is due only to some general in the military, and skips over the place, where as Truman put it...where the buck stops.

 

[panais]

Why somebody wants to take over such hardware?

 

[Layback Bear]

I presuming we are capable of transmitting a signal that is encrypted to one our own satellites and sent the same signal to the drone. If someone uses a USB port from the sending computer that could be where the problem starts. Surly they are not using the internet; I hope not anyway. When American military security is broken Americans and are friends die.

 

[Stratos]

I fail to understand why a weapons system such as this would ever need to be connected to the internet at all. It should be a totally discreet system.

It's for periodic maintenance and operational monitoring. Contractors, also known as FSR's (Field Service Reps) are often deployed to troop training facilities to include operational theaters (in hostile territory) to support the military with their mission requirements.

Firmware/software updates are often installed using flash drives or while cabled in, via RS-232, USB or Ethernet connections.

This isn't about controlling something like a TOW missile where the controls needed are primarily steering based just to get to the target.

The type of virus being implemented is interesting though, I've read that they've tried numerous times to wipe the thing out of their systems only to have it come back, which leads me to think it's either an effective rootkit or something embedded into the OS (think Sandra Bullock's classic movie "The Net") where there's a hidden feature unknown to its users until recent.

I really don't care why they do what they do, because there are better ways of doing things than the way that they are. It sounds to me that the military is lacking competent personnel within the ranks that know how to handle problems very well.

There is no such thing as an invincible virus. If they can't eradicate it, then they need to send some of their own people back to school, and find methods of updating that is safer than the internet.

Interesting, I'd be interested in reading about what your solutions/alternatives are and I'm not being sarcastic. Also, what school would you send those people to? Antivirus Community College? IT professionals are not synonymous with being virus experts.

If you're thinking that the military could simply write a new OS for every type of major device/software they use, you'd be mistaken. New OS development could take many years, would require proper licensing, then you'd have to sell/contract those licenses to the military (so they can acquire support from you), etc.

What the Gov't has adopted was a much more cost efficient option which involves using open source software (such as Linux) and developing software to be used along with it for some of their equipment.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Why can't they simply re-install the original OS?

I agree that neither party is infallible, but I can't remember the Conservatives permitting anything like this before.

There have been hacking and data loss incidents for at least the last 25 years (UMVs are a recent development).
The military could have built their own brand new network (separate from the public network).

You and I don't have that option (we have to use the public network).

These sort of incidents make me question, the various public statements the US military makes (or that have been attributed to them).
"We can read a car number plate from orbit with our spy satellites."
"Where did that Jumbo jet, that disappeared over the South Atlantic, crash?"
"We don't know."
"So if someone parked a submarine loaded with ICBMs in the South Atlantic, they could fire their missiles with complete impunity?"
" ... "

The real question is, why can't the US military (with its unlimited budgets) learn the lessons that we have?

This question makes it appear that the problem is due only to some general in the military, and skips over the place, where as Truman put it...where the buck stops.

The President says to the Secretary of Defence and/or the Joint Chiefs, "I want this to happen, go away, come up with a proposal and then report back."

The President doesn't personally inspect:

• Every line of code for errors.
• Every piece of equipment for design defects.

The military are supposed to have (or have access to) experts for that work.

IMO, his responsibility (in this situation) is to order a proper inquiry, tasked with finding and punishing those who are responsible (i.e. those who were supposed to have checked the code/equipment).

I'm not a US citizen, or taxpayer, but if I was, I'd be "mad as hell".

Anyway, it seems like basic procedures (such as backing up your OS install before you use it) aren't being followed.

Why can't they simply re-install the original OS?
Was the original OS install media already infected?
If so, then why haven't the creators/suppliers been "leaned on"?

 

[seekermeister]

Interesting, I'd be interested in reading about what your solutions/alternatives are and I'm not being sarcastic. Also, what school would you send those people to? Antivirus Community College? IT professionals are not synonymous with being virus experts.

It is not a matter of it being necessary to have military personnel being able to write their own AV code, because I seriously doubt that the virus that they are having problems with is unique. It is a matter of how to properly employ existing AV code to combat the issue effectively. There are other ways of delivering that code to their systems, without using the internet. If a simple home user can deal with AVs on their computer, I see now reason that the military shouldn't be able to do the same, but in a secure fashion.

It seems obvious to me, that for the virus to be introduced in the first place, that either it came from the internet, or was directly injected by a saboteur. I suspect that the internet is the probable culprit, because I would bet that some bored systems operators decided to play games or browse some porn on the internet.

If you're thinking that the military could simply write a new OS for every type of major device/software they use, you'd be mistaken. New OS development could take many years, would require proper licensing, then you'd have to sell/contract those licenses to the military (so they can acquire support from you), etc.

What the Gov't has adopted was a much more cost efficient option which involves using open source software (such as Linux) and developing software to be used along with it for some of their equipment.

Perhaps you have a better understanding than I do, but it would seem that all that this weapon system would have to do, would be to display video transmitted from the Predator/Reaper on their screen, along with some GPS data, either from the drone or a satellite, and then transmit signals in the opposite direction to the drones, for the purpose of controlling their flight to a target site.

I really don't understand why a full blown OS would be required for this purpose, at least not in the conventional sense. All of the data that the operator would need, could be displayed in one screen. Perhaps I'm underestimating the problem, but I know of many airborne electronic system on aircraft, that while they are computer operated, they do not use an OS like Windows or Unix at all.

 

[seekermeister]

The President says to the Secretary of Defence and/or the Joint Chiefs, "I want this to happen, go away, come up with a proposal and then report back."

The President doesn't personally inspect:

• Every line of code for errors.
• Every piece of equipment for design defects.

The military are supposed to have (or have access to) experts for that work.

IMO, his responsibility (in this situation) is to order a proper inquiry, tasked with finding and punishing those who are responsible (i.e. those who were supposed to have checked the code/equipment).

I never intended to imply that the President should have to personally conduct the computer recovery procedures, or even an investigation itself. He is responsible for making informed decisions and charging the appropriate military officials to carry them out.

However this problem is one that this should never have occurred in the first place...had the President have established an appropriate policy on the manner in which such weaponry is dealt with in the first place. The lines of communications between the President and the military are not just some impromptu conversations, in which the President gives some instructions, and blindly trusts that they will be properly carried out. He is supposed to know everything that occurs in the military, above the routine/menial SOP of daily operation.