Disk Management (Snap in) shows swaped Disk0=D and Disk1=C

[TVeblen]

That is what we mean when we say the SATA port doesn't matter!

And I don't like it either.

This would be particularly true in AHCI mode. The system could not handle hot swapping disk drives if it were trying to maintain a fixed order to the drives. It must be flexible by default.

 

[TVeblen]

Well, just to confuse the issue a little, the install dates for all my drives were on another motherboard. I had to RMA the board twice, so they were actually installed 3 times on this machine on 3 motherboards (same make, model). But, they show the install date and first install date as the date I installed Windows when I first built this rig. To further confuse the issue, two of the drives came from another machine which is still running and was built about 3 months before the installed date. This motherboard was placed in this machine the last time on March 2nd or 3rd. All 3 drives list the install date as 10/19, which is about the time I built this rig the first time. Due to the fact that the RMA'd boards were the exact make and model, I never reinstalled the OS. This is the same OS I installed when I first built this machine. It seems to me that the install date coincides with the installation of the OS and not when the drives were first put online, or put in the machine.

Now, are we doing this because we are really OCD or because we are control freaks or is there a difference.

No difference.
For me it is like when people say "you can't build a perpetual motion machine". My first, natural reaction:



I think you are absolutely right about the install date. And that would mean that it probably has nothing to do with the disk order problem. My experience with replacing the defective drive would support that. So the install date is probably a red herring.

So we are back to the beginning: all Sata ports are treated equally, queried in parrallel as Dwarf stated, and it all comes down to which drives are enumerated first. And just because a drive is an super fast SSD does not automatically mean that it's firmware will communicate it's presence faster that a spinner. The spinner, being a relatively simpler device, may just be ready faster.

And it looks like I am definitely wrong about a method to reorder drives. That obviously does not work for all people. The differences in people's systems is very complex and any minor variation in the setups could make the difference.

A couple of further thoughts:

• My UEFI allows me to set individual drives as Removable or not. I haven't checked recently, but my initial settings were Disabled (Hot Plug) for all 3 drives. I wonder if this variation makes a difference?
• And I'm wondering what would happen if a ClearCMOS was performed before adding the drives in the order you want. I'm doubtful on this - I believe the "CMOS" only keeps a Checksum, not the table of enumerated devices.

 

[essenbe]

Not that it makes a difference, but my bios is set for all drives to be hot pluggable. I have the same options as you, but elected to make them removable.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Not that it makes a difference, but my bios is set for all drives to be hot pluggable. I have the same options as you, but elected to make them removable.

Forgive my curiosity but is there a reason why?

 

[essenbe]

I find that hard to explain, but I have been known to do some unusual things with my computer and have found the need to remove a drive while the computer was running. I could shut down, remove the drive and restart, but it is just more convenient to me to have it that way. I realize that makes little sense to anyone here, but it's the way I've always done it and see no reason to change now. It has never caused me any problem in the past so I continue to do things the way I've always done them. I know, it makes little sense to anyone except me.

 

[essenbe]

Lady Fitzgerald, one reason I find it useful may be a difference in boards. But, I do a lot of backups and other things with external esata docks. If the drives are not hot swappable, I have to shut the computer down, start the drive and restart for bios and the OS to pick up the drive, then shut down to disconnect. With them hot swappable, I simply turn on the power to the drive and it shows up and when finished turn it off. I also have to hot plug the drives using Parted Magic to un freeze the drive to do a secure erase, or at least I used to. They have fixed the problem now with the later editions so you can put it to sleep and unfreeze it.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I find that hard to explain, but I have been known to do some unusual things with my computer and have found the need to remove a drive while the computer was running. I could shut down, remove the drive and restart, but it is just more convenient to me to have it that way. I realize that makes little sense to anyone here, but it's the way I've always done it and see no reason to change now. It has never caused me any problem in the past so I continue to do things the way I've always done them. I know, it makes little sense to anyone except me.

Actually, it makes perfect sense to me. And, since it works for you, there is nothing wrong with it (actually I saw nothing wrong with when you posted; I was just curious why). Being the old coward that I am, I much prefer shutting a machine down before poking around inside so the only drives I would need to be hot pluggable would be the two hot swap bays on my machine.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[TVeblen]

Nothing wrong or unusual about that. I bet most people do it that way.

I just have no intention of swapping any of my internal drives out for any reason, so they are 'fixed' in my mind. Just thought it might be more stable that way at the moment the decision presented itself. And that is probably not correct either.

But at least that eliminates any AHCI factor from the equation in our unsolvable problem!

 

[mjf]

I'm hearing that it makes no difference what SATA port (1-6) you attach your SSD or HDD for OS/Programs. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that for a minute.

I don't know what others are inferring but I never adhered to the above quoted claim. What doesn't really matter is the drive number assignment. Sata ports have physical attributes that matter.
Summary: there is not a guaranteed one to one relationship between sata port and drive number assignment.

 

[essenbe]

I have 2 hot swap drive bays in my computer. I don't remove them from the machine, I can just slide them out a little to disconnect them then slide it back in. I do that with my C drive if I want to experiment with another OS and don't want to dual boot, and then have to fix the boot files when I'm finished playing. I did that with my little experiment last night. It was no big deal. Sure as heck beats taking the side of the case off. As soon as I find the parts available, I'll have 4 hot swap drive bays. I can also install another OS on to an external drive using esata docks, and boot from them. Long story short, there is no telling what I may try with my computer. All options are on the table.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I only have room for two swap bays and will be swapping three drives for each one inside the case (up to seven, 1 SSD and 6 HDDs but, currently, only 1 SSD and 2 HDDs). It would take one seriously huge machine to accomodate 21 swap bays (heck, I barely have room for the one I've got!), not to mention the drive letter assignment issues that would create (I don't even want to think about drive numbers!), so I'll just be literally swapping drives.

 

[incurablegeek]

I'm doing a Linux install on my #3 and #4 computers today. If I actually believed that any old SATA connect was A-OK, I'd mix up a batch of Kool-Aid, spike it with a bit of Tennessee's finest "product" and just have a good old time doing these installations.

Unfortunately, logic and experience override. I hate to disappoint -- but for me it will always be SATA 1 for SSD (OS and all Programs loaded first), SATA 5 for optical installation disk, and then all other drives connected "willy nilly" after a big ole gulp of that Kool-Aid - cause after you've done a proper install, order does not matter. Just SATA 1-4, for SSD's and HDD's and SATA 5,6 for opticals.

I will go crazy here for a moment, so nobody thinks I am constipatorily "traditional" or, heaven forbid, old fashioned. While most "computer experts" will tell you to set your optical SATA ports to IDE, I can assure you that is complete nonsense. They're perfectly fine with AHCI - with or without the Kool-Aid as an decision-making factor. :huh:

Now, am I poking fun at you folks? Nah ... I would never do that.

 

[mjf]

It should depend on what is coming out of those sata ports. In my case on my Asus P8Z68 Deluxe motherboard
Sata 1, 2: are Marvell 6Gb/s - I don't use them. SSDs are slower. I can't see myself ever using them.
Sata 3, 4: are Intel 6Gb/s - get the SSDs
Sata 5, 6, 7, 8: Are Intel 3Gb/s - get HDDs then DVD/Blu ray.

 

[incurablegeek]

It should depend on what is coming out of those sata ports.

Ah, good point. Sanity prevails!

Sorry to have been so cavalier about SATA port priority after the installation. With your board, that appears to be a factor to consider. My Crosshair V Formula boards are all SATA 6 GBS, so I simply adhere to conventional port selection wisdom, which is not the "any ole port will do" theory.

Oh, and for those of you who think your RAID setup will hum along nicely if you care not a bit about port selection, just go ahead and try it. If you are looking for a hobby or a pastime, that would be a good choice.