Do we still need drive letters...?

zzz2496

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As the title says, do we still need drive letters to "label" our storage?

In my humble opinion, drive letters are the legacy DOS left us that needed to be leave and let go, it belongs in the past. At this time of age, when people can have many disks that stores multi gigabytes of data, drive letters are liability... What if you (like me) have too many disks, plus external storage(s), plus some SAN/NAS volumes that needs to be attached... Giving those volumes drive letters will backfire when you ran out of letters (1), or you forgot that you statically bind a folder to your iTunes Database (example of some app that statically bind to a folder within a partition), and the volume ran out of free space(2). Expanding the volume is out of the question because the free space is already taken by the next partition...

Please share your opinion...

zzz2496
 

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Wow.. how much space do you need? lol.
I currently have 4.25Tb of hard drive space + backup of the same. I am about 800Gb off filling them all up. The reason I use so much is that I use my main pc as a media centre, currently containing 1000's of episodes of various television series, documentaries, music vids and hundreds of movies. So at present I have used 5 drive letters + 2 more for a dvd-rw drive and a virtual drive. This leaves me with just under 20 more drive letters to use in the future. I really can't see me using all these even with all my 'greed' in data usage! Unless I have ALL my media in HD, then of course I would use a lot more storage space.

To be honest, the answer (for now) is to make sure that you have larger hard drive capacities. I'm certainly open to the idea of not having drive letters, as long as I know which files are on what hard drives.
 

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the letters are good for organization, but i suppose that a dive name or number would work just as well.
 

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Hi ukgovsucks,

In my setup, I have 8 harddisks, 2 internal optical drives, 2 external optical drives, 2 card readers (each needed at least 3 drive letters). I had drive letter up to "S", that leaves me somewhat little slack to use, not to mention I have several VHDs shared over network, and several iSCSI disks. When everything online, and in use, IF I put all in drive letters, I should need drive "AC" (as in after "Z"-> "AA"->"AB"->"AC"). It was a PITA before I re-mount everything in folders... By mounting each into folders, I can now have as many volumes as I want. I even have seperate folders for remote disks, virtual disks, and directly connected disks. Fortunately Microsoft still provides "subst" command, so I can still have a virtual drive letter off my folder mounted volume just to keep backward compatibility with my preconfigured Database server process/iTunes/and several other apps...

Now, I'm rearranging everything using larger volumes (testing a 4TB volume right now) to maintain order of my data chaos. Drive letter really is a legacy, Microsoft should just leave it behind, use WinFS instead (where did that FS go anyway?). Unix style is still the best (everything is in a directory/file).

zzz2496
 

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Hi ukgovsucks,

In my setup, I have 8 harddisks, 2 internal optical drives, 2 external optical drives, 2 card readers (each needed at least 3 drive letters). I had drive letter up to "S", that leaves me somewhat little slack to use, not to mention I have several VHDs shared over network, and several iSCSI disks. When everything online, and in use, IF I put all in drive letters, I should need drive "AC" (as in after "Z"-> "AA"->"AB"->"AC"). It was a PITA before I re-mount everything in folders... By mounting each into folders, I can now have as many volumes as I want. I even have seperate folders for remote disks, virtual disks, and directly connected disks. Fortunately Microsoft still provides "subst" command, so I can still have a virtual drive letter off my folder mounted volume just to keep backward compatibility with my preconfigured Database server process/iTunes/and several other apps...

Now, I'm rearranging everything using larger volumes (testing a 4TB volume right now) to maintain order of my data chaos. Drive letter really is a legacy, Microsoft should just leave it behind, use WinFS instead (where did that FS go anyway?). Unix style is still the best (everything is in a directory/file).

zzz2496

Phew! What can I say? lol.
I don't mind the idea of removing the drive letters, just as long as I know which drive has what data on it. Always open to a little change with Windows, as long as it's an improvement!
 

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By the way, have any of you guys tried mounting a volume to a NTFS folder?
 

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personally, i find that having a drive letter is more friendly than the Linux Sda1 type, but i suppose a simple numbering system would be just as good
 

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personally, i find that having a drive letter is more friendly than the Linux Sda1 type, but i suppose a simple numbering system would be just as good

Err... you got that a bit off... Linux's "/dev/sda" assignment is the equivalent of "Device Manager/Disk Drives/[some_harddisk]". The one I mean is (if you're familiar to Linux) ==> "/mnt/windows" assignment. In Linux (or UNIX), Devices are inside "/dev" directory, that's your hardware right there.
"/dev/sda" is a block device, the same as "Device Manager/Disk Drives/[some_harddisk]" in Windows, to use the block device, you need to "mount" it to something, in Windows - we have drive letters(and NTFS folders), in Linux or UNIX, we have folders/directories. Now, letter runs from "A" to "Z", folders/directories runs as much as the limit of the File System allows, which is quite plentiful :)

zzz2496
 

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my apologies, its been a while since i used Linux, obviously getting a bit confused in my old age
 

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Ahahaha, no worries :)
 

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i don't know i think WinFS kinda got killed off. i was surprised that it didn't show up in 7 but now it has been so long since we've heard anything about it i think it's become vaporware.
 

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NTSF format can only acess 137 gb. Modern drives are much larger and require partitioning into logical drives each having a drive letter. Bear in mind hard drives and other devices require quite a bit of power. You might consider partitioning to gain full capacity of your existing drives and remove some.
 

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NTSF format can only acess 137 gb.

That's not true. Windows 7 supports up to 16TB partitions.

However,, as I understand it,,, there are caveats to this.
For instance, you can not boot a partition larger than 2TB.

Quote from Source

The following are a few limitations of NTFS:

File NamesFile names are limited to 255 UTF-16 code words. Certain names are reserved in the volume root directory and cannot be used for files. These are: $MFT, $MFTMirr, $LogFile, $Volume, $AttrDef, . (dot), $Bitmap, $Boot, $BadClus, $Secure, $Upcase, and $Extend;[3] . (dot) and $Extend are both directories; the others are files. The NT kernel limits full paths to 32,767 UTF-16 code words.

Maximum Volume SizeIn theory, the maximum NTFS volume size is 264−1 clusters. However, the maximum NTFS volume size as implemented in Windows XP Professional is 232−1 clusters. For example, using 64 KiB clusters, the maximum NTFS volume size is 256 TiB minus 64 KiB. Using the default cluster size of 4 KiB, the maximum NTFS volume size is 16 TiB minus 4 KiB. (Both of these are vastly higher than the 128 GiB limit lifted in Windows XP SP1.) Because partition tables on master boot record (MBR) disks only support partition sizes up to 2 TiB, dynamic or GPT volumes must be used to create bootable NTFS volumes over 2 TiB.

Maximum File SizeTheoretical: 16 EiB minus 1 KiB (264 − 210 or 18,446,744,073,709,550,592 bytes). Implementation: 16 TiB minus 64 KiB (244 − 216 or 17,592,185,978,880 bytes)
That's the over all simple answer,, but not the full answer
There is a lot more info to this than I ahve time to point out or research and explain.
I suggest searching google or bing on this and GPT (GUID Partition Table).
 
Last edited:

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i don't know i think WinFS kinda got killed off. i was surprised that it didn't show up in 7 but now it has been so long since we've heard anything about it i think it's become vaporware.

How does WinFS relate to this? WinFS was not a file system, it sat atop NTFS. It merely was collecting extra data into a database.
 

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The easiest way to handle this would be to assign each partition based on the drive number.

Drive 0
Partition 1 = 0.1 (0.1:\users for instance)
Partition 2 = 0.2

Drive 1
Partition 1 = 1.1
Partition 2 = 1.2

etc...

This could easily handle 256 (0:256) partitions per drive but can you imagine what the impact would be if the current setup is changed? The hit to the operating system itself would be huge as it would be to all installers and apps that use their own installer.

Backward compatibility would be a nightmare.
 

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I also forgot to mention.

If you seriously have that many drives? Then you need to start looking at full blown Servers chassis and racks. And creating full blown Raid 6 arrays.

I would add that if you need more than 23 Drive letters, then you are seriously doing something wrong.

And I appologize if that so0unds rude,, it is not meant to be. Just matter of fact.
 

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i don't know i think WinFS kinda got killed off. i was surprised that it didn't show up in 7 but now it has been so long since we've heard anything about it i think it's become vaporware.

How does WinFS relate to this? WinFS was not a file system, it sat atop NTFS. It merely was collecting extra data into a database.

you know i remember this was a direct response to someone bringing up WinFS but it's possible i had multiple tabs open and posted my response in the wrong one. i remember because as i was writing it i got the idea to look up whatever happened to it and apparently it never was killed off but instead broken up and future versions of smaller ms software projects will have parts of it implemented into them if anyone cares.
 

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NTSF format can only acess 137 gb.

That's not true. Windows 7 supports up to 16TB partitions.

However,, as I understand it,,, there are caveats to this.
For instance, you can not boot a partition larger than 2TB.

Quote from Source

The following are a few limitations of NTFS:

File NamesFile names are limited to 255 UTF-16 code words. Certain names are reserved in the volume root directory and cannot be used for files. These are: $MFT, $MFTMirr, $LogFile, $Volume, $AttrDef, . (dot), $Bitmap, $Boot, $BadClus, $Secure, $Upcase, and $Extend;[3] . (dot) and $Extend are both directories; the others are files. The NT kernel limits full paths to 32,767 UTF-16 code words.

Maximum Volume SizeIn theory, the maximum NTFS volume size is 264−1 clusters. However, the maximum NTFS volume size as implemented in Windows XP Professional is 232−1 clusters. For example, using 64 KiB clusters, the maximum NTFS volume size is 256 TiB minus 64 KiB. Using the default cluster size of 4 KiB, the maximum NTFS volume size is 16 TiB minus 4 KiB. (Both of these are vastly higher than the 128 GiB limit lifted in Windows XP SP1.) Because partition tables on master boot record (MBR) disks only support partition sizes up to 2 TiB, dynamic or GPT volumes must be used to create bootable NTFS volumes over 2 TiB.

Maximum File SizeTheoretical: 16 EiB minus 1 KiB (264 − 210 or 18,446,744,073,709,550,592 bytes). Implementation: 16 TiB minus 64 KiB (244 − 216 or 17,592,185,978,880 bytes)
That's the over all simple answer,, but not the full answer
There is a lot more info to this than I ahve time to point out or research and explain.
I suggest searching google or bing on this and GPT (GUID Partition Table).

Tepid, nice explanation :) For BIOS based (uses MBR) computers, the limit is 2TB which is kinda limited for today. That's why Intel needs to get it acts right and make EFI the "de facto" standard, so that we can boot up off > 2TB volumes (RAID 0 of 2x 1.5TB disks is already ~3TB).

i don't know i think WinFS kinda got killed off. i was surprised that it didn't show up in 7 but now it has been so long since we've heard anything about it i think it's become vaporware.

How does WinFS relate to this? WinFS was not a file system, it sat atop NTFS. It merely was collecting extra data into a database.

WinFS is like an abstraction layer for File Systems, just like HAL for hardware. The idea was, if we have a database driven File System, the role of volume managers will be reduced tremendously, and data grouping (folders) will be obsolete since we will be seeing our data in a "pool", which will be categorized in a way of stacks works (the cool name was "One of the Four Pillars of Longhorn").

At that time I thought, is Microsoft using some part of ZFS to build WinFS? See, ZFS's concept is it's managing a "pool", you can add a storage device to that "pool", it will then take care of it, from which data to be written where, to checksum of each block (to make sure that the data is safely written/stored). And there goes WinFS, Microsoft cancel it, so it's not implemented in Vista (Longhorn). It got thrown to the sides, it was implemented in MS SQL product IIRC, but haven't heard about it since 2-3 years ago...

I also forgot to mention.

If you seriously have that many drives? Then you need to start looking at full blown Servers chassis and racks. And creating full blown Raid 6 arrays.

I would add that if you need more than 23 Drive letters, then you are seriously doing something wrong.

And I appologize if that so0unds rude,, it is not meant to be. Just matter of fact.

I do have that many partitions (the result of bad practice in micro managing disk partitions). What I need is not a server chassis, that would be the old way of thinking. I need a new way to consolidate my data (which is why I found mounting a volume to a folder to be very efficient). I'm currently testing a 4TB ZFS RAIDZ volume over iSCSI, it works very well. From that 4TB volume (1 partition), I can create virtual drive letters if need be (using "subst" command), so that applications that are bound to static addressing using drive letters will not break.

The easiest way to handle this would be to assign each partition based on the drive number.

Drive 0
Partition 1 = 0.1 (0.1:\users for instance)
Partition 2 = 0.2

Drive 1
Partition 1 = 1.1
Partition 2 = 1.2

etc...

This could easily handle 256 (0:256) partitions per drive but can you imagine what the impact would be if the current setup is changed? The hit to the operating system itself would be huge as it would be to all installers and apps that use their own installer.

Backward compatibility would be a nightmare.

Don't mix partition management with drive letters, partition management is at the partition table, you don't need to know the way partition table works, as long as the partition is created and you can mount it, then you're good to go. There are many limitation on a MBR based partition, IIRC you can only have no more than 4 partition at a time (either it's 4 primaries, or 1 primaries and 1 secondary with 3 logicals). GUID based partition is not bound to this kind of limitation.

BUT, you do have the ability to mount a volume (partition) to a folder, you can have your "D: (Data)" drive letter to be mounted on "C:\Data", that folder will contain your "Data" partition, along with NTFS ACLs etc.

===========================================================

Here's what I've bumped my head on relating to this drive letter limited realm...

I had so many partition, so many devices, so many remote disks I ran out of drive letters. At that time, well.. it's OK, I can still mount the darn thing in a folder, so it's all good. Then the HUGE problem came, 3 of my disks is dying (~3 years old Seagate Barracudas). Those disks holds 6 partitions in them, if I take them down, I'll have a gaping hole on my drive letters. Not to mention I have my music library (managed by iTunes) scattered all over those 6 partitions. Restoring the music library will be a PITA I thought at that time.

And then came the WDC Caviar Black 1TB drive. At partitioning time I was at a dead end, I can't make 6 partitions on this disk, that won't work... even if I do able to create 6 partitions, it won't take long before I have to use another drive letter to mount my new disk partition to expand my pool of disk storage. THEN it hits me, "Why do I mount it to a drive letter?", I hit my head :) Then I partition it using GPT, 1 partition only, created some ~900GB volume. I copy all of my data off 3x dying disks to the new Caviar Black, with "volumename_driveletter" folder format (so drive letter G: holds a volume labeled "Fun" will have "fun_g" as it's folder name), mount the ~900GB volume to a folder, and type this command ==>

Code:
subst g: c:\volumens\1tb_pool\fun_g
And BOOM, a G: drive letter shows up, and it contains the exact same data/folder structure as the original disk, but without the partition limit :D

By then, I've attached another 1TB disk under "fun_g" folder ("Fun" partition was ~200GB originally), effectively "expanding" the volume to ~1.8 TB shared volume limit (along with other 5 "partitions"). This time, I don't have the "oh shit, I ran out of free space in G:" kind of problem. If I need free space, I attach another disk on it (which the drive G: it self is technically a folder).

You can have almost unlimited number of folders compared to the very small 27 drive letters... Which then made me realize, Drive letters is an old legacy and Microsoft should have just leave it behind.
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Self Built
OS
Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
CPU
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
Motherboard
Abit IN9-32X-MMAX
Memory
DDR2 Adata 4GB
Graphics Card(s)
Nvidia GeForce GTX 285 1024 and Nvidia GeForce 8800GT 512
Sound Card
Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3
Monitor(s) Displays
Dell 2407WFP and BenQ 2400v and Philips 150v3
Screen Resolution
3840x1200 and 1024x768
Hard Drives
2 WDC 1TB
1 WDC 1.5TB
1 WDC 640GB
1 WDC 320GB
1 Seagate 200GB
PSU
Corsair TX 850W
Case
Cooler Master HAF932
Cooling
Arctic Cooling Freezer Extreme and plenty of fans...
Keyboard
MicrosoftNaturalKeyboard 4000/Apple Alu keyboard/Dinovo mini
Mouse
Logitech G5/MarbleMouseTrackball/PerformanceMX/SpacePilotPRO
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1.5Mbps down/384Kbps up
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APC SURT 1000XL
Logitech Z-560
Wiimote
Mikrotik Router
Linksys (now Cisco) SD2008 8 port Gigabit switch
Linksys WRT54G (acting as AP)
Apple wireless Aluminium keyboard
Apple Magic Mouse
Xbox360 wired controller
Read My Mind

I also forgot to mention.

If you seriously have that many drives? Then you need to start looking at full blown Servers chassis and racks. And creating full blown Raid 6 arrays.

I would add that if you need more than 23 Drive letters, then you are seriously doing something wrong.

And I appologize if that so0unds rude,, it is not meant to be. Just matter of fact.

you read my mind stay out lol.....
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Custom Built
OS
Windows 7 Ultimate 32 bit
CPU
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Overclocked to 3.0Ghz
Motherboard
Biostar TF560 A2+
Memory
2 Gigs of G.Skill DDR2 800
Graphics Card(s)
HIS ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro With IceQ cooler
Sound Card
6.1 Channel Sound Blaster Live 24 Bit
Monitor(s) Displays
Dual 20.5 " LG Flatrons W2052TO
Screen Resolution
1152x864
Hard Drives
Dual 36 Gig 10,000 RPM Raptors
PSU
430 watt Seasonic 80%+ Dual 12v Rails 2x80mm fans
Case
CHIEFMAX YA-5X
Cooling
4-80mm case fans 1-140mm case fan freezer 64 Pro CPU cooler
Keyboard
Saitek Eclipse II
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A4Tech wireless battery free optical scroll mouse
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1.5 meg down 384 up
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Logisys LED fan/light controller and dual 16" LED sticks mounted inside top of case all fans are LED all lighting is blue
DVD RW and CD RW both and Memory card reader
Hi ukgovsucks,

In my setup, I have 8 harddisks, 2 internal optical drives, 2 external optical drives, 2 card readers (each needed at least 3 drive letters). I had drive letter up to "S", that leaves me somewhat little slack to use, not to mention I have several VHDs shared over network, and several iSCSI disks. When everything online, and in use, IF I put all in drive letters, I should need drive "AC" (as in after "Z"-> "AA"->"AB"->"AC"). It was a PITA before I re-mount everything in folders... By mounting each into folders, I can now have as many volumes as I want. I even have seperate folders for remote disks, virtual disks, and directly connected disks. Fortunately Microsoft still provides "subst" command, so I can still have a virtual drive letter off my folder mounted volume just to keep backward compatibility with my preconfigured Database server process/iTunes/and several other apps...

Now, I'm rearranging everything using larger volumes (testing a 4TB volume right now) to maintain order of my data chaos. Drive letter really is a legacy, Microsoft should just leave it behind, use WinFS instead (where did that FS go anyway?). Unix style is still the best (everything is in a directory/file).

zzz2496

Fortunatelly, my computer and laptop has just 1 harddisk with high capacity.
Buat apa kebanyakan begitu.. ;S
 

My Computer

Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
Acer
OS
Microsoft Windows Seven
CPU
Acer
Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo
Graphics Card(s)
Intel
Monitor(s) Displays
LG
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