Does Anything Work?

[Barman58]

As an experiment some time a go (a year or so), a web master placed a (benign) link button on his website that stated "click this button to download and install a virus on your computer" or such

he found that in a very short time he had over 400 visitors who clicked on that button

How can any Tech prevent users like this from becoming infected - they cannot!!!

Ok I will admit that some of the scare monger tactics of the legitimate AV industry and major retail chains, to sell their products, does not help to combat this problem

It produces a state of paranoia about the malware situation rather that the informed caution that is actually needed. Users have a state of mind where they are terrified of being infected and so when their fears are proved by the drive by malware they panic and click the button, without thinking

 

[hello people]

I can't believe it.

I learned this kind of lesson in about 1998...the hard way...crippled PC's...

I suppose there's new users every minute of every day...who don't know jack

 

[mooreted]

I can't believe it.

I learned this kind of lesson in about 1998...the hard way...crippled PC's...

I suppose there's new users every minute of every day...who don't know jack

A lot of the really bad infections I see are from people with kids in the house. They'll click on anything shiny and flashy. Just put up a link to cute kitty screen savers and you're in.

 

[Jacee]

One very good anti-malware application to have is SpywareBlaster by javacool. This app runs in the background, it's free and it is 'pro' active. SpywareBlaster® | Prevent spyware and malware. Free download.
It needs to be updated manually (free version), or with a donation, it will update itself. Once updated, click the button that says "enable all protection"

 

[Corrine]

Users have a state of mind where they are terrified of being infected and so when their fears are proved by the drive by malware they panic and click the button, without thinking

An excellent description!

 

[malexous]

Before looking at what other software might help, I suggest educating them on all the dangers of the web using a more user friendly version of this article.

I suggest telling them that if they see a message claiming an infection, even if it appears to come from their installed security software, to save and close only what is important, restart the computer and update and run successive scans with their security software.

Of course, some are just not going to listen.

 

[mooreted]

We do try to tell them. Many of them think that since they have anti-virus software they should be able to do whatever they want. I've tried setting up users with a limited account but they can't seem to deal with logging in as an admin to install stuff. Many of my customers call the computer a modem or a hard drive, they think the hard drive is memory, they think Windows is the computer, have no idea what Flash is, or java, or plugins, or codecs. It's really difficult when people think their computer is the same as their toaster. Push the button and it makes toast.

 

[Jacee]

Maybe after you 'fix' a cutomer's computer, you need to attach an important instruction ... DO NOT plug this in.

 

[mooreted]

Maybe after you 'fix' a cutomer's computer, you need to attach an important instruction ... DO NOT plug this in.

Right, the only safe computer is still in the box.

 

[Borg 386]

As viruses and scareware evolve, it's going to be harder to keep it out of the sys.

The latest phony AV's not only tell you that there's "something" on the PC, but some of them actually scan ahead and throw up a screen that mimics your current AV. Just last week I saw this on my dentists PC.

And also on a family members PC, to which they (unfortunately) responded by clicking everything they were told to because they "panicked" and thought it was part of their AV "helping" them. I had to wipe the PC's HD & re-install everything. It was that bad.

And they do a good job of scaring the average user too, lots of flashing/blinking and bright red letters saying in essence "OMG, YOU"RE INFECTED....DO SOMETHING QUICKLY OR ALL IS LOST!!!!

As some have said, and I fully agree, education is the key. Not everyone is going to be able to learn about all the intricacies of malware/viruses, but some education can go a long way.

I was over at a friends and I saw a warning message pop up, to which he promptly clicked it off without reading it. I asked what that was & his response was "I don't know, it pops up once in a while." It turns out it was his AV warning him that a prog was trying to establish a connection. A program that turned out to be a virus. He had never bothered to actually read the message, thinking of it as nothing more then an annoyance.

I think as long as these tactics continue, we'll see our fair share of infected PC's. As to the question "Does anything work", not 100%, but vigilance, good AV software and some basic education can at least cut down on some of the infections. (Hopefully)

 

[JMH]

We discuss semantics...

Reality - The "nanny state" won't work.
No matter what prevention is used, what standard of computer safety education has been gleaned ...
individuals must take responsibility for their actions or lack thereof -
AND bear the consequences of these actions.

 

[hello people]

This is why 99% of people are besides themselves with mania for AV programs...they have some kind of manic blind belief and love for AV. To them an AV program = no virus ever. AV companies lllllloooooveee this kind of attitude.

 

[hello people]

As viruses and scareware evolve, it's going to be harder to keep it out of the sys.

The latest phony AV's not only tell you that there's "something" on the PC, but some of them actually scan ahead and throw up a screen that mimics your current AV. Just last week I saw this on my dentists PC.

And also on a family members PC, to which they (unfortunately) responded by clicking everything they were told to because they "panicked" and thought it was part of their AV "helping" them. I had to wipe the PC's HD & re-install everything. It was that bad.

And they do a good job of scaring the average user too, lots of flashing/blinking and bright red letters saying in essence "OMG, YOU"RE INFECTED....DO SOMETHING QUICKLY OR ALL IS LOST!!!!

As some have said, and I fully agree, education is the key. Not everyone is going to be able to learn about all the intricacies of malware/viruses, but some education can go a long way.

I was over at a friends and I saw a warning message pop up, to which he promptly clicked it off without reading it. I asked what that was & his response was "I don't know, it pops up once in a while." It turns out it was his AV warning him that a prog was trying to establish a connection. A program that turned out to be a virus. He had never bothered to actually read the message, thinking of it as nothing more then an annoyance.

I think as long as these tactics continue, we'll see our fair share of infected PC's. As to the question "Does anything work", not 100%, but vigilance, good AV software and some basic education can at least cut down on some of the infections. (Hopefully)

But what sites are these people visiting?

I have a core of about 10-15 sites in my favourites that I visit pretty much daily...they are good sites, legitimate sites. They aren't the kind of sites that sport neon flashing promises.

What about when a good site goes bad...can a good site be hacked itself and suddenly start spewing pop ups?

In my experience...that is rare to the point of non-existant. I've never seen one of my legit sites start freaking out and promising me to fix my 'viruses'.

So...where are people going to expose themselves to such false positive virus warnings?

 

[Darician]

I can't believe it.

I learned this kind of lesson in about 1998...the hard way...crippled PC's...

I suppose there's new users every minute of every day...who don't know jack

That's like the question of why working at a help desk, you get a ton of password reset calls every 3 months when the reset cycle comes up. It's always the same people with the same issue who never read or learn anything and then they complain why they have to deal with this.

The problem is that users just don't give a damn and since a lot of PCs are corporate IT and the actual end user doesn't have to pay that support for the most part, then they don't care. And what's more, a lot of these people are in very locked down network but yet they manage to get to these hacked sites.

 

[Borg 386]

What about when a good site goes bad...can a good site be hacked itself and suddenly start spewing pop ups?

In my experience...that is rare to the point of non-existant. I've never seen one of my legit sites start freaking out and promising me to fix my 'viruses'.

So...where are people going to expose themselves to such false positive virus warnings?

Unfortunately, good sites have been hacked. The list of these includes Fox, The New York Times and several other well known "legitimate" sites. All have been infiltrated by malicious ad banners or a virus. Nowadays, going to a legitimate site does not guarantee safety.

And as JMH says, users do need to take responsibility, if you go looking for illegal downloads and other "shady" items, or peruse questionable sites, then "you takes your chances".

Also, as Darician stated, it doesn't help to stifle the spread of viruses when people think "it's just the company PC, not my own...who cares if it gets infected".

How many times do you still get a FWD E mail from someone that has 300 other E mail addys attached to it. If that E mail lands one one infected computer, all those addys are now potential targets.

 

[Wishmaster]

Perhaps I am totally missing something here but ...


If Im browsing the web and some scareware like this pops up telling me Im in danger the first thing I do is obviously read what it says.

Second, If the app is NOT Norton, I know right away something is not right and it attempting to trick me into downloading something nasty.

Ill double check my taskbar as well, to see if Norton is reporting anything.


I guess my point is, it doesnt matter what AV you prefer.
If something is telling you theres a security risk and click here to download .. and it is NOT your prefered & installed AV.... somethings wrong.

It just seems to me this would be common sense.

 

[hello people]

I wouldn't be surprised if AV companies actually put out viruses on the net to help sure up the dependency people have on AV's.

Of course, they probably have no need to do that with all the proliferation of scams online anyway.

What virus can penetrate a smart users defenses? Let's say you know not to click strange promises embedded in neon flashing popups...you know not to install mysterious exe files, you know not to visit dodgy sites with gay abandon, you know....etc...you get the idea...

Are there any viruses that have been written that can bypass software and the best human shields?

 

[Corrine]

This is a great discussion with a lot of excellent points being made!

But what sites are these people visiting?

I have a core of about 10-15 sites in my favourites that I visit pretty much daily...they are good sites, legitimate sites. They aren't the kind of sites that sport neon flashing promises.

What about when a good site goes bad...can a good site be hacked itself and suddenly start spewing pop ups?

In my experience...that is rare to the point of non-existant. I've never seen one of my legit sites start freaking out and promising me to fix my 'viruses'.

So...where are people going to expose themselves to such false positive virus warnings?

I have a friend who works in security at Microsoft. He was doing a search for information on a server, clicked on one of the search result sites and *poof* the site was infected. He immediately pulled the plug from the 'net, avoiding serious damage. The obvious point being that his computer was most definitely up to date and secure. He was conducting valid research. It can happen to anyone that way.

Although I have been very fortunate and none of my computers have ever been infected (knock on wood), often times when I am merely catching up on forum posts I am only using the mouse. More than once I have been intent on what I was reading and inadvertently clicked a link.

How many times do you still get a FWD E mail from someone that has 300 other E mail addys attached to it. If that E mail lands one one infected computer, all those addys are now potential targets.

I agree with the other things you wrote, Borg 386, but it amazes me that this still happens. I cringe when ever I get one of those.

 

[Darician]

Perhaps I am totally missing something here but ...


If Im browsing the web and some scareware like this pops up telling me Im in danger the first thing I do is obviously read what it says.

Second, If the app is NOT Norton, I know right away something is not right and it attempting to trick me into downloading something nasty.

Ill double check my taskbar as well, to see if Norton is reporting anything.


I guess my point is, it doesnt matter what AV you prefer.
If something is telling you theres a security risk and click here to download .. and it is NOT your prefered & installed AV.... somethings wrong.

It just seems to me this would be common sense.

Common sense is just unfortunately not that common.

 

[mooreted]

I almost got caught from a legitimate search. I like the Pidgin IM client. I searched for it with Google and clicked the first link. When I clicked the download button I noticed the name was unusual. Then I looked at the URL and noticed this was not the Pidgin IM site. I'm sure if I would have installed that program I would have been infected. It's easy to get fooled if you don't take a close look at the information on your screen.

The site looked just like the real Pidgin site, but it was misspelled. I forgot exactly, but it was a subtle change like Pidgin.im.cz or something. They had the right logo and purple color.