Impossible to provent malware/rogueware on Windows?

[dubya89]

Every time I do a clean install on someones PC and install any antivirus, they always end up installing garbage like toolbars and fake optimizers.

How is this possible? Because 99% of legit Windows programs these days come with toolbars/rogueware on their installers. So there's no way AV software could detect the malware, and even if they could, then it would be impossible to install many programs on Windows.

Sure you could tell someone to check for unwanted stuff when they install a program, but a lot of these installers do tricks like change 'next' buttons around, or have it install stuff by default and the user has to uncheck many things. Sorry, but the average users is not going to catch some of this stuff.

So why isn't MS doing anything about this and why don't other platforms like Mac have this malware-inside-installer problems.

 

[Jacee]

Some people will click anything, and not give it a second thought. They don't know the dangers, or haven't been told not to uncheck "bundled software, toolbars, extensions" and such.
If you are a person's IT/go to man, then you need to teach them!

 

[scr]

It's been my experience that teaching is only useful and effective if those being taught are willing to learn.

 

[ThrashZone]

You might consider loading this for people who refuse to read what's being installed with other items,
Unchecky - Keeps your checkboxes clear
I can't remember who posted this possibly Britton30 ?
Cheers to who ever did though

 

[King Arthur]

Every time I do a clean install on someones PC and install any antivirus, they always end up installing garbage like toolbars and fake optimizers.

The problem isn't Windows or security software like MSE and Avast, the problem is you. You, the user, are the most effective defence against malware and crapware. Be wary where you step and Windows and any security software you installed will handle the rest.

 

[whs]

Some people just don't want to learn. I had a neighbor who called for help. He had mire malware than OS on his system. I fixed it and wanted to install an AV program. He did not want that. 4 weeks later he called again - apparently the same mess. I told him that he is on his own. Fortunately he lives on another street.

 

[King Arthur]

Not wanting an AV installed isn't by itself a problem, though it does leave you open to more attacks should you tread carelessly. I've run Windows installs without any AV installed for a long time before MSE came out (everything else was unreliable or simply too bog heavy in resource usage back then), on the few occasions where I installed AV software to test drive them they always came back reporting a clean bill of health.

Of course, I did have stuff like NoScript installed and looked where I stepped and so forth, standard operating procedures as a responsible computer user and administrator. The thing that sits between the keyboard/mouse and the chair really makes all the difference in my experience.

 

[Scoop]

The problem isn't Windows or security software like MSE and Avast, the problem is you. You, the user, are the most effective defence against malware and crapware. Be wary where you step and Windows and any security software you installed will handle the rest.

Good 'net practices will eliminate most risks of malicious intrusions.

Some people just don't want to learn. I had a neighbor who called for help. He had mire malware than OS on his system. I fixed it and wanted to install an AV program. He did not want that. 4 weeks later he called again - apparently the same mess. I told him that he is on his own. Fortunately he lives on another street.

I'm glad they don't live on my street That's amazing. The same thing happened to a friend of mine that's fairly PC-savvy. He knows someone that 'net-surfs without a surfboard. My friend had to tell it like it is to the guy.

Not wanting an AV installed isn't by itself a problem, though it does leave you open to more attacks should you tread carelessly. I've run Windows installs without any AV installed for a long time before MSE came out (everything else was unreliable or simply too bog heavy in resource usage back then), on the few occasions where I installed AV software to test drive them they always came back reporting a clean bill of health.

Of course, I did have stuff like NoScript installed and looked where I stepped and so forth, standard operating procedures as a responsible computer user and administrator. The thing that sits between the keyboard/mouse and the chair really makes all the difference in my experience.

I have a couple of friends that are similar. They've yet to get infected with malware/viruses. I'm a safe 'net user but have been affected a couple of times over the last 10 years of home 'net use but haven't had any problems for more than a year. Recovery was not an issue though, since I backup the HDD periodically.

The last time that I was affected was interesting. I was at one of my daily reputable sites, with all of my Windows updates current, running my previous AV and MBAM Pro. I got hit with one of those "FBI" ransomware variants. I plugged in my spare cloned HDD and was running in a few minutes.

Occasionally, one can get affected when it would seem that they were practicing safe 'net habits. I contacted the Admin at that site and it appeared that the site was infected for a few hours around a Holiday time here in the States, last December, where they were understaffed and a malicious code was launched via 3rd-party adware of something similar.

 

[King Arthur]

Occasionally, one can get affected when it would seem that they were practicing safe 'net habits. I contacted the Admin at that site and it appeared that the site was infected for a few hours around a Holiday time here in the States, last December, where they were understaffed and a malicious code was launched via 3rd-party adware of something similar.

3rd-party ad vendors have become notorious as of late for distributing malware in otherwise clean and trusted websites, it's one of the most prevalent paths of infection right up there with malicious email and flash drives. It's why addons like NoScript and Adblock Plus are quickly becoming requirements rather than a nice luxury if you want to browse the internet with any sense of safety or sanity.

 

[Scoop]

3rd-party ad vendors have become notorious as of late for distributing malware in otherwise clean and trusted websites, it's one of the most prevalent paths of infection right up there with malicious email and flash drives. It's why addons like NoScript and Adblock Plus are quickly becoming requirements rather than a nice luxury if you want to browse the internet with any sense of safety or sanity.

Thanks for the info

 

[Barman58]

The main reason for the "added Extras" in modern applications is the fact that these applications are "free to use" or "Free for personal use", as, with the huge range of software available for Windows, the "free option" is a good way to get users to use a particular product. There are often "Pro" versions of these applications and these come without the "addons",.

It basically comes down to the fact that developing software takes Time and therefore money to do, the developer needs to be paid in some form for their time, that's only fair. So they resort to having their product "sponsored" by someone else, to pay the bills. Of course it's not only the developers that use this method, some of the file repositories and download sites will have their own modified version of applications where they add things to the basic product, they have costs too.

Some of the tricks of the trade, such as hiding the additions from the users that chooses the default install, are a problem but an understandable one when you are paid for the number of "addon programs installed"

In many ways It comes down to user choice, if you buy commercial software, or the Pro, version, you pay the developer directly and you get a "clean" installer, if you want something for nothing, here is a price to pay.

I am not defending some developers who seem to have no judgement, in their choice of included addon, but cannot deny the right of someone to get paid for their work.

If you want free software, without the addons, there are some developers that still work for the satisfaction of creating something, check out Open Source Software , most has none of this type of funding system.

The question was asked why does this not happen with mac applications, the reason is simply one of commercial viability, the MAC market is so limited in size that it's not a good comercial proposition for the majority of developers to even write for it

 

[MrWhoopee]

The question was asked why does this not happen with mac applications, the reason is simply one of commercial viability, the MAC market is so limited in size that it's not a good comercial proposition for the majority of developers to even write for it

I've maintained for years that this was the reason that Macs didn't get infected with viruses (virii ?), not that they were immune. There was just no ROI, not to mention the inability to achieve critical mass. Why waste time writing a virus for the 12%? Now that market share is increasing, the infections are appearing, along with the resultant security software.

 

[King Arthur]

The question was asked why does this not happen with mac applications, the reason is simply one of commercial viability, the MAC market is so limited in size that it's not a good comercial proposition for the majority of developers to even write for it

I've maintained for years that this was the reason that Macs didn't get infected with viruses (virii ?), not that they were immune. There was just no ROI, not to mention the inability to achieve critical mass. Why waste time writing a virus for the 12%? Now that market share is increasing, the infections are appearing, along with the resultant security software.

The same can be said for Linux. While it's fact that Linux is designed to be inherently more secure than Windows, Linux's current safety has a lot to do with "safety by obscurity" much like OSX and I'm sure that if/when "desktop Linux" becomes more commonplace we're going to see an influx of Linux viruses just like we are seeing right now with OSX.

 

[Barman58]

I suppose there is some good news for MAC OS users, their overall share of the PC market is falling again < 8% in the last figures I saw, so they'll be Virus free again before long

 

[Layback Bear]

Barman I do agree that the time spent creating a program the creator wants to get paid. I don't have a problem with that.
It's the method they use to get the not asked for programs installed on your computer.
If they did it a up front method.
Letting us on this side of the keyboard know what they have as a program and what it does. Maybe a website to check their program out.
Slipping in my computer under Aunt Nelie's skirt is not the way I want things in my computers.
If the program is so great tell us up front. If you slip it in on me I don't care how good the program is. It's gone because I can trust the creator.

 

[Barman58]

Hi Jack

I agree totally as I stated in my original post

I am not defending some developers who seem to have no judgement, in their choice of included addon, but cannot deny the right of someone to get paid for their work.

all of these sponsored addons should be mentioned up front, but human nature will often result in the methods we see, if being up-front, costs you, the developer, money you are more likely to hide things, also of course it's likely that some of the worst junk software will pay the best commission to the developer

 

[sixwheeler2011]

Barman I do agree that the time spent creating a program the creator wants to get paid. I don't have a problem with that.
It's the method they use to get the not asked for programs installed on your computer.
If they did it a up front method.
Letting us on this side of the keyboard know what they have as a program and what it does. Maybe a website to check their program out.
Slipping in my computer under Aunt Nelie's skirt is not the way I want things in my computers.
If the program is so great tell us up front. If you slip it in on me I don't care how good the program is. It's gone because I can trust the creator.

I agree totally on this one. well stated.
If my trust is broken when it comes to my PC, bye,bye goes your programming, or
I won't even give it a chance.

~SIX~

 

[MrWhoopee]

In my experience, the secret to avoiding the crapware (along with clicking "next" slowly and unchecking the boxes) is careful selection of the download site. If you are looking for Adobe Reader (for example), avoid the first 4 or 5 (sponsored) results in the search, then be sure that the address you select is ......adobe.com. I also look for the very tiny "direct download" link underneath the big DOWNLOAD button to avoid the download manager.

I have found that fewer than one in ten of my clients can be successfully instructed on this. I have resorted to telling them to "NEVER DOWNLOAD OR UPDATE ANYTHING!!!!" The AV will update itself, everything else will wait. They still do it, then my phone rings. $$$

 

[madcratebuilder]

Some people will click anything, and not give it a second thought. They don't know the dangers, or haven't been told not to uncheck "bundled software, toolbars, extensions" and such.
If you are a person's IT/go to man, then you need to teach them!

I see you met my wife. Cleaning up PUP's is a full time job because of the fastest finger I've ever seen. She said..."those little boxes go away if you click on them"

Tool bars and browser add-ons are very difficult to eradicate completely. I like to think I'm good at keeping my browsers clean but I still get a occasional PUP. Just uninstall/delete/disable.

 

[Layback Bear]

madcratebuilder this has got to be keeping you busy.

She said..."those little boxes go away if you click on them"