Intel's Thunderbolt - (Light Peak) announced

[Airbot]

Aww, I rather preferred the code name Light Peak instead.

SANTA CLARA, Calif., Feb. 24, 2011 – Intel Corporation today announced the availability of Thunderbolt™ technology, a new high-speed PC connection technology that brings together high-speed data transfer and high-definition (HD) display on to a single cable. Running at 10Gbps, Thunderbolt technology can transfer a full-length HD movie in less than 30 seconds. This Intel-developed technology is coming to market through a technical collaboration with Apple, and is available first on Apple's new line of MacBook Pro laptop computers.

The Fastest Data Connection to Your PC Just Arrived
Thunderbolt™ Technology

 

[seekermeister]

I don't really understand this, but it sounds as though it requires interfacing via a DisplayPort connector, which is not anything that I have, and is not something that many people have, so I'm not sure how much impact that it will have in general?

 

[Airbot]

Two actually. PCI Express also.
Displayports are becoming more popular. A lot of the newer GFX cards have Displayports now. Displayports used mostly for displays/monitors.

 

[Phone Man]

Its a new buss and runs Display Port and PCIe protocols on a special Intel chip. It can be used for video on the Display Port or other devices (HDD, Cameras, etc) on the PCIe portion using a common interface. The original design used fiber connection and it can still be implemented depending on adoption by vendors. If I read it right I believe you can daisy chain multiple devices on one port so a Laptop could have one port running to a Display and then the Display would run to a Ext HDD and then hook your Camera to the HDD and they all work. Needs a lot of vendors to adopt this new interface but the potential is there.

Jim

 

[sygnus21]

I don't really understand this, but it sounds as though it requires interfacing via a DisplayPort connector, which is not anything that I have, and is not something that many people have, so I'm not sure how much impact that it will have in general?

Not to be funny but not a lot of people had most of the technology we have today. I'm sure there were a lot of people who questioned SSD drives for example.

Anyway this sounds like good news for high speed transfers.

Thanks.

 

[Skulblaka]

Yarr'!

 

[Tarka Dal]

You won't be using this for years yet! And if you are, you a very few...

 

[unifex]

Unfortunately not too many monitors sold today use DisplayPort. I was recently looking at video cards and some have DisplayPort in them. I then checked out monitors and found none (did not look at Apple though, maybe they have it, but I don't think I would buy them, I tend to pay way less for my monitors).

 

[Airbot]

Newegg here in the U.S has at least 8 different ones listed ATM by 3 different companies that I can find, so there are some that are out there at this point. Probably more than that sold by different companies.

Newegg.com - DisplayPort
Newegg.com - DisplayPort
Newegg.com - Dell UltraSharp

 

[simmo]

Don't quote me but I'm sure I read something somewhere recently that said that Video card manufacturers were phasing out VGA and possibly DVI connections on Video cards and using HDMI/Display Port tech as this is what you get when you buy our cards,like it or lump it..I'm thinking it was Nvidia.
Sorta like Windows going 64 bit only...next OS I believe?
I cbf googling to find the article tho because I was looking at or for something else at the time so I don't remember where it was.

 

[C32C3]

If Nvidia or any other graphic card manufacturer were to do that without prior public announcement that would definitely alienate a lot of customers. The days of VGA is gone, isn't it? So I don't think too many in the Western world would be upset to see it no longer supported. Having said that, I still have a Philips 19" CRT tucked away; in case of emergency it can be used on my old Pent IV.

 

[BugMeister]

and you'll probably be able to buy adapters for a good few years yet..

 

[unifex]

Well, phasing out VGA is nice and dandy, but I have not yet seen one single projector in any university or conference using anything else. While the projectors themselves might have other connectors, no other cable is ever provided. As a result, everybody connects their laptops to the VGA port and Mac people use special adapters.

Naturally at home I am using DVI, but to be honest, I don't see a whole lot of difference between VGA and DVI provided the resolution is the same. Of course, Display Port is another matter, as it is supposed to be capable of higher resolutions. Right now I am using 1920x1200, which seems to be totally sufficient for the 24'' monitor, but should I go for a larger screen in the future, a higher resolution would be useful and thus I will need Display Port. At least that's how I understand this at the moment.

 

[s31]

some interesting info in here
Thunderbolt (interface) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A single Thunderbolt port can run up to six devices, including two monitors."

"...it has also been revealed that the technology will be exclusive to Apple until 2012"
Thunderbolt - more than a funky name - News - PC & Tech Authority

new macs with thunderbolt are already on sale
Apple - Mac

if light peak is a success then by 2012 there is the benefit that there will be alot of peripherals, at the moment there is no real reason to get a new mac since nothing available to the market supports it..

"It is important to also note that this isn’t the death knell for USB. Thunderbolt is targeted at devices with high bandwidth needs – an external hard drive, for example, is still limited by the speed at which its platters spin, and USB 3 has more than enough bandwidth for it."

either it will get replaced by thunderbolt eventually or it will be a fail and usb will keep upgrading

 

[regli]

...

if light peak is a success then by 2012 there is the benefit that there will be alot of peripherals, at the moment there is no real reason to get a new mac since nothing available to the market supports it..

"It is important to also note that this isn’t the death knell for USB. Thunderbolt is targeted at devices with high bandwidth needs – an external hard drive, for example, is still limited by the speed at which its platters spin, and USB 3 has more than enough bandwidth for it."

either it will get replaced by thunderbolt eventually or it will be a fail and usb will keep upgrading

This is so far ahead of USB 3.0 that it isn't even funny:

Thunderbolt = Light Peak = Mini DisplayPort + PCI Express – Stephen Foskett, Pack Rat

Whoa there! So this little Mini DisplayPort connector includes 20 Gb/s of throughput in each direction, plus up to two DisplayPort v1.1a connections with 8.64 Gb/s each. This yields a grand total of 57 Gb/s over that slim wire. That’s one impressive interconnect!

With a legacy hub it will be able to fully support most existing devices. The speed is EASILY there and the design appears to accommodate it.

As mentioned, just about any existing PCI Express chipset can reside on this Thunderbolt bus, and the topology is extremely flexible. A Thunderbolt peripheral could be an endpoint, using the PCI Express lanes to drive FireWire, USB, Fibre Channel, or just about any other interconnect. It could also be a hub, allowing further Thunderbolt connections, or a pass-through in a daisy-chain topology.

I am not very happy with Intel that they provided exclusivity until 2012 to Apple. I hope that competitors challenge Intel on this score!

 

[Tepid]

People are saying,, not too many people use Displayport's,,,,,,, I recall USB Ports were put on systems for literally a few years prior to USB becoming anywhere close to mainstream.
Also recall, that PS2 ports has only recently been discontinued on motherboards.

It took the industry a very long time to really see the potential or even tap that potential in USB.

So, this really isn't anything new.
Also note that PCI-E 1x has been on boards for a very long time, and very few things actually use it.

 

[Phone Man]

...

if light peak is a success then by 2012 there is the benefit that there will be alot of peripherals, at the moment there is no real reason to get a new mac since nothing available to the market supports it..

"It is important to also note that this isn’t the death knell for USB. Thunderbolt is targeted at devices with high bandwidth needs – an external hard drive, for example, is still limited by the speed at which its platters spin, and USB 3 has more than enough bandwidth for it."

either it will get replaced by thunderbolt eventually or it will be a fail and usb will keep upgrading

This is so far ahead of USB 3.0 that it isn't even funny:

Thunderbolt = Light Peak = Mini DisplayPort + PCI Express – Stephen Foskett, Pack Rat

Whoa there! So this little Mini DisplayPort connector includes 20 Gb/s of throughput in each direction, plus up to two DisplayPort v1.1a connections with 8.64 Gb/s each. This yields a grand total of 57 Gb/s over that slim wire. That’s one impressive interconnect!

With a legacy hub it will be able to fully support most existing devices. The speed is EASILY there and the design appears to accommodate it.

As mentioned, just about any existing PCI Express chipset can reside on this Thunderbolt bus, and the topology is extremely flexible. A Thunderbolt peripheral could be an endpoint, using the PCI Express lanes to drive FireWire, USB, Fibre Channel, or just about any other interconnect. It could also be a hub, allowing further Thunderbolt connections, or a pass-through in a daisy-chain topology.

I am not very happy with Intel that they provided exclusivity until 2012 to Apple. I hope that competitors challenge Intel on this score!

Don't know where the poster got 57Gb/s. From what I have seen from Intel it is 10Gbs in each direction and the bandwidth is shared by the DisplayPort and PCIe signals. Also I don't know what the deal between Apple and Intel entails. Since Apple owns Display Port maybe it is just the Light-Peak on Display Port connector that is exclusive. Intel wanted to use the USB connector but the USB standards group shot them down. Intel also wants to go fiber but other vendors wanted copper since it is cheaper. Light peak is here and will only get better this year.

Jim

 

[regli]

...

...
Don't know where the poster got 57Gb/s. From what I have seen from Intel it is 10Gbs in each direction and the bandwidth is shared by the DisplayPort and PCIe signals. Also I don't know what the deal between Apple and Intel entails. Since Apple owns Display Port maybe it is just the Light-Peak on Display Port connector that is exclusive. Intel wanted to use the USB connector but the USB standards group shot them down. Intel also wants to go fiber but other vendors wanted copper since it is cheaper. Light peak is here and will only get better this year.

Jim

He got it from here:

http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/325136-001US_secured.pdf

... A Thunderbolt connector is capable of providing two full-duplex
channels. Each channel provides bi-directional 10 Gbps of bandwidth. ...

I agree with him that TWO full DUPLEX channels should result in maximum potential throughput of 40 GB.

BTW, here is an Anandtech quote supporting the claim:

Thunderbolt is dual-channel, with each channel supporting 10 Gbps of bidirectional bandwidth. That’s a potential 20 Gbps of upstream and 20 Gbps of downstream bandwidth.


I think that the author is right on target.

 

[Phone Man]

He got it from here:

http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/325136-001US_secured.pdf

... A Thunderbolt connector is capable of providing two full-duplex
channels. Each channel provides bi-directional 10 Gbps of bandwidth. ...

I agree with him that TWO full DUPLEX channels should result in maximum potential throughput of 40 GB.

BTW, here is an Anandtech quote supporting the claim:

Thunderbolt is dual-channel, with each channel supporting 10 Gbps of bidirectional bandwidth. That’s a potential 20 Gbps of upstream and 20 Gbps of downstream bandwidth.


I think that the author is right on target.

I found that Intel link a short while ago. Intel refers to it as 10GBs but then says it has 2 channels with 10GBs each which would be a total of 20GBs, however the original article mentioned 57GB which was in error.

Thunderbolt™ Technology.

Intel seams to imply that the max throughput to one device is 10GBs and the 2nd channel can handle another device at 10GBs.

Lots of assumptions on how this will play out but Intel has plans to upscale light peak to 100GBs using fiber. My problem is I cant type that fast.

Jim

 

[regli]

I found that Intel link a short while ago. Intel refers to it as 10GBs but then says it has 2 channels with 10GBs each which would be a total of 20GBs, however the original article mentioned 57GB which was in error.

...

Jim

I disagree. The original article was correct. It was talking about aggregate bandwidth of the interconnect and not necessarily to a single device.

.. this little Mini DisplayPort connector includes 20 Gb/s of throughput in each direction, plus up to two DisplayPort v1.1a connections with 8.64 Gb/s each.

Anandtech obviously agrees with it as well.

We will see who is right.