Is Libraries Useful; a Debilitating Crutch--Or Both?

[TomBrooklyn]

While it seems Libraries can be helpful for finding user data that may not all be neatly stored in one or several logical and easily found places; it also seems to me it would be better for a user to get their data organized and clearly know where it is, rather than let it be scattered hither and thither across various folders and drives, and rely on Libraries to find it all when desired.


Therefore, while Libraries can obviously be useful to help find misplaced, poorly placed, or oddly placed data; might it not be better to avoid using Libraries as much as possible; and get used to using folders directly--to develop and maintain an understanding of exactly where all your data is being stored. Besides a general feeling of competency and control this would engender, this knowledge could facilitate doing comprehensive back-ups that don't inadvertently miss any data.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
IMO a better facility to use these days is "Spanned Volumes" -- although remember if one volume in the "Spanned set" fails you lose the whole thing -- but provided your backup is fine then this really shouldn't be an issue.

The reason particularly why like spanned volumes is that I have several very large multi-media files - for instance I have about 4TB of music (I like loads of classical music at the best quality available --Uncompressed FLAC) and I can have all the music say in a high level directory "MUSIC" then split down into sub directories etc.

I might have 4 physical disks "Spanned" -- which gives me say my 5 - 6 TB "volume size".

So say I have volumes D,E,F,G defined as Spanned.
Windows explorer will show this as a single volume "D" with 5 - 6 TB total size.

Then you just use this volume as a single big volume. Backing up sub directories regularly will ensure you don't lose anything.

Another thing to consider is that a lot of multi-media type programs where you can organise your photos / music etc
often use some type of data base / folder system which don't allow multiple volumes. By using Spanned volumes the application just thinks your directory is on a single disk.

(I think W8 has a better system of "Pooled Storage" which is an improvement on Spanned volumes but spanning certainly works on W7).

Libraries have some problem with automatic updates / re-organisation. Spanned volumes work EXACTLY like Windows explorer does and your directories are always up to date.

To use spanned volumes - change to DYNAMIC Disks then select the disks to Span together. Can't show you an image at the moment as I'm using a laptop currently with a single internal HHD (SSD actually).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Barman58]

I use libraries extensively - with the default view as Folder so I see the underlying folder structure. The reason I use libraries is because my folder structure is organised in a way that results in the scattering of files across disparate drives/partitions.

They also allow me to consolidate my cloud storage - a library that contains the local synchronised file stores for several services, (Skydrive, Google Drive, Flicker, Etc.), are all visible in one place.

 

[Kari]

Therefore, while Libraries can obviously be useful to help find misplaced, poorly placed, or oddly placed data; might it not be better to avoid using Libraries as much as possible; and get used to using folders directly--to develop and maintain an understanding of exactly where all your data is being stored. Besides a general feeling of competency and control this would engender, this knowledge could facilitate doing comprehensive back-ups that don't inadvertently miss any data.

What an odd statement!

I use libraries extensively - with the default view as Folder so I see the underlying folder structure. The reason I use libraries is because my folder structure is organised in a way that results in the scattering of files across disparate drives/partitions.

They also allow me to consolidate my cloud storage - a library that contains the local synchronised file stores for several services, (Skydrive, Google Drive, Flicker, Etc.), are all visible in one place.

+1

Using libraries does not mean being unorganized. I belong to those users who even plan the partitioning and folder structure before installing Windows on a new machine. I have separate partitions and drives for various types of data which then contain certain folder hierarchy to better suit my needs.

Using libraries I have a central one click access to all my data, each library collecting data from various partitions and drives, each having a thoroughly thought default save location. This does not mean I do not know where my data is located; in fact I know it exactly but instead of having to browse to folder A on drive X to find a document and then to folder B on drive Z to access another document I can find both in Documents library. For my purposes I need those documents to be saved on different folders on different drives but I can access them all from one library.

Libraries are for me a powerful tool to help me staying organized.

​

Kari

 

[boohbah]

nigel, i just added my cloud stuff to libraries, prompted by your post .
then i wanted a cloud icon for libraries so i made one.
heres a copy if you want to use it

i used a base template then nicked a cloud ico image and stuck them together . looks good



View attachment Library cloud Icon.zip

 

[Kari]

Nice icon, Julian. Saved it for future use.

 

[boohbah]

your welcome.
its so easy to change a library icon using win8, the option is there in the icon properties.

 

[Barman58]

Ditto

 

[gigagiggles]

My ONLY experience with Libraries is as follows:

I created a library from a collection of video files on a USB external drive. When I incidentally caused the loss of the MasterFileTable on the external drive, I could only recover generic files (without filenames and such). When I managed to visit Libraries and found intact the library created, I was glad for the recovery and puzzled! I thought these were links instead of actual digital data occupying the primary hard drive space. I've stayed away from Libraries ever since.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Right now, I only use Libraries in a limited way. I use the default Libraries on the Start Menu as a shortcut to get to my Documents, Music, etc. folders and only keep the main folder in each Library.

However, I will eventually have several HDDs filled with videos. Rather than span those HDDs, like Jimbo does, I plan on using the Video Library to do the same thing. The downside to spanning the drives is, as Jimbo pointed out, is, if one of the HDDs should fail, you will lose the data on all of the spanned HDDs. That danger can be adverted with a proper backup scheme but such a scheme would be too bulky and cumbersome for my needs. A Library will give the multiple drives in it a single directory, same as spanning drives will do, while allowing each drive to remain independent, simplifying backups.

 

[dperecky]

In a dual boot configuration, libraries are IMO useless. Everything is on a common D: drive.

 

[smarteyeball]

I stopped using libraries in 8 because mine kept corrupting.

I use them like a shortcut when I do use them. My drives are partitioned into categories anyway.

 

[TomBrooklyn]

Well it seems some people have found Libraries useful.

To me, it seemed like an added layer of a directory structure--that could be useful, but could also potentially lead to some confusion and disorganization.

 

[BrokeIC]

It took me about 6 months before I noticed my libraries were all screwed up. It took me 2 days of research to figure out how to fix it. I move most of my music and videos and photos out of libraries onto other hard drives.

 

[dsperber]

Most useful to me is the "Recorded TV" library, in support of Windows Media Center (used as my Ceton-based whole-home DVR, for HDTV viewing/recording/playback through Linksys DMA2100 extenders around my home to support my multiple HDTV's).

WMC only supports one single "recording folder" for new recordings. There is no "folder pool" (i.e. multiple folders, possibly spread across multiple drives/partitions) for new recordings.

But WMC playback comes from the "Recorded TV" library, which by default is the same single folder used for new recordings. However MULTIPLE folders (on multiple drives/partitions) can be added to the "Recorded TV" library FOR PLAYBACK. So you can essentially have an INFINITE amount of space used for storing previously made recordings (e.g. manually moving the WTV recording files from the primary "new recording" folder to any of these additional "long term storage" folders).

All of the WTV recordings in ALL of the "Recorded TV" library appear in the "Recorded TV" list (i.e. MyDVR button on real hardware cable company or satellite DVR remotes) presented by WMC. So you can playback from anywhere in the "Recorded TV" library.

Infinitely valuable to me (and believe me, I DO know where all my data is on the 12 partitions spread across my 4 internal hard drives along with my two external USB 3.0 drives used for backups and long-term storage of WTV recordings).

 

[BrokeIC]

I've never used Media Center before. Just went through setup of it, but it can't find any files in the folders I gave it to search from. Maybe it needs a day?

Media Center didn't find my Hauppauge PVR either. So I'm reviewing this video about whether I should worry about that.
Hauppauge HD PVR Review with Media Center on Windows 7

I use Total Media Extreme/Theater software and record mp4's for X-Box, even though I only have a PS3. My PVR is old and should probably be replaced with a gamer model.

 

[dsperber]

As was implied by my earlier system description, I do NOT use external cable company equipment (neither STB nor DVR) and do not use any any analog equipment in my WMC implementation.

WMC is in fact my DVR! It is based on the use of an internal Ceton 4-tuner M-card cablecard-enabled PCIe InfiniTV tuner card (they have new internal/network/USB versions out now that contains 6 tuner, still only requiring one M-card rented from TWC/LA at a mere $2/month). I also have a 2-tuner Hauppauge HVR-2250 internal OTA/ATSC tuner card for use with my roof antenna. HDTV image quality of local OTA/ATSC networks via off-air roof antenna is superior to that re-transmitted by TWC/LA because with OTA/ATSC there is no re-compression of the original network content as is unfortunately done by TWC (to reduce bandwidth requirements for insulting delivery to customers who presumably "can't tell the difference", but who actually probably don't know this is going on and would certainly prefer the superior original non-recompressed content if given an A/B demo).

Anyway, Windows Media Center in Win7 was DESIGNED TO WORK WITH the Ceton card (i.e. cablecard-enabled tuner, both internal and external/USB, agreed to by Microsoft's licensing and DRM agreement with Cablelabs, which allowed Ceton to develop its products and allowed Microsoft's WMC to handle decrypting of protected copy-once content via cablecard for viewing and for recording/playback) as well as with competitive external cablecard-enabled products such as the Silicon Dust HDHomeRun Prime, as well as with other retail OTA/ATSC TV tuner cards (e.g. from Hauppauge and ATI) to handle unprotected copy-freely content.

Theoretically, WMC can also work with external cable company STB/DVR tuner devices, including support for interfacing to "IR blaster" equipment so as to control the channel tuners in those external boxes for proper channel selection for scheduled recording by WMC.

I don't know what you tried to do with your initial experiment with WMC, but I'm sure it's just a configuration or setup issue. Obviously things get more complicated when you have external equipment (and multiple boxes at that) involved. In my opinion having my two TV tuner cards (4-tuner Ceton, and 2-tuner Hauppauge HVR-2250) internal to my HTPC makes it all just a piece of cake to set up WMC.

There are of course some basic preliminaries to go through, e.g. performing the DCA ("digital cable advisor") test to confirm that your system's hardware and video conform to the DRM requirements set down by Cablelabs in order to allow WMC to control the cablecard for secure decruption, etc., as well as the "head-end pairing" required to get your M-Card operational with your cable company, etc. WMC automatically detects the relevant connected hardware (both internal as well as external I would presume) and configures itself accordingly.

And you have to get the Guide configured correctly, selecting your cable company's name, provide your zip code to identify the proper channel lineup and program info (retrieved every night automatically by WMC from Zap2it which is the Microsoft contractual program Guide provider for all areas of the US, if not also for Canada).

Anyway, without knowing what you actually did and tried, and without knowing about your specific hardware equipment, I wouldn't attempt to advise you on any problem solving. And besides, that's not really the essence of this thread.

But I can tell you that WMC is WONDERFUL!!! It actually works, flawlessly (especially when it comes to not recording repeat airings of a scheduled program if I don't ask for it)! And I have essentially unlimited hard drive capacity for recordings (thanks to "Recorded TV" library), 6 tuners for simultaneous record/playback/view, 2-week program Guide for upcoming, support for up to five simultaneously operating "extenders" around the house (which are essentially "satellite clients" of my HTPC "server", i.e. independent DVR's on their own), etc.

Can't praise Microsoft enough for what they've built here. And it looks gorgeous as well!

 

[BrokeIC]

I've got a 4:3 VGA external monitor connected to my laptop. That probably violates some DRM for video.

There's no OTA signals in my area.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
IMO Libraries weren't a good implementation in any case.
They are going to disappear in the latest version of W8 (W8.1). - They will actually still exist but be hard to find so IMO no point in using them.

A much better way is to either SPAN DISKS (risk though if any disk in the spanned group fails then data on the whole lot fails) or use Storage Pools (W8.1).

If you back up data regularly then I wouldn't worry about problems with using Spanned volumes. With these a group of volumes say D,E.F.G for example is treated by Windows as a single "Logical volume". So you don't have to worry or care WHERE your data is physically located. Also good if you have a few lower capacity disks - you can "Aggregate" these into a larger disk space.

I like this a lot for multi-media - particularly Music and Video collections. These days people often have several TB of music / video - and most music organising programs get into problems if your music collection say fills up a standard disk. This method avoids that - the music collection can be as large as the entire 4 disks in my example and the program still thinks it's all stored on a single disk.

The newer storage pool system (W8.1) works much the same -- but more robustly. When the W8.1 preview appears it's worth testing this feature.

Spanned disks - sceenshot enc.

You'll see in one screenshot TWO entries for Disk F (the physical configuration)
In the other you'll see the aggregate - Disk F is now ONE volume as far as Windows is concerned.

Cheers

jimbo

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Hi there
IMO Libraries weren't a good implementation in any case.
They are going to disappear in the latest version of W8 (W8.1). - They will actually still exist but be hard to find so IMO no point in using them.

A much better way is to either SPAN DISKS (risk though if any disk in the spanned group fails then data on the whole lot fails) or use Storage Pools (W8.1).

If you back up data regularly then I wouldn't worry about problems with using Spanned volumes. With these a group of volumes say D,E.F.G for example is treated by Windows as a single "Logical volume". So you don't have to worry or care WHERE your data is physically located. Also good if you have a few lower capacity disks - you can "Aggregate" these into a larger disk space.

I like this a lot for multi-media - particularly Music and Video collections. These days people often have several TB of music / video - and most music organising programs get into problems if your music collection say fills up a standard disk. This method avoids that - the music collection can be as large as the entire 4 disks in my example and the program still thinks it's all stored on a single disk.

The newer storage pool system (W8.1) works much the same -- but more robustly. When the W8.1 preview appears it's worth testing this feature.

Spanned disks - sceenshot enc.

You'll see in one screenshot TWO entries for Disk F (the physical configuration)
In the other you'll see the aggregate - Disk F is now ONE volume as far as Windows is concerned.

Cheers

jimbo

How do you back up and restore a drive in spanned drives?