Microsoft readies 'Mohoro' Windows desktop as a service

[Night Hawk]

The Corporations rule the world! Or have you ever heard anything on that idea? The real problem stems from only seeing one or two corporations/companies holding the real monopolies on things! MS got sued for IE being included in Windows not allowing for Netscape and other browsers to get in on the act back in the late 90s! A $1 million a day fine imposed? or some phenomenal amount that didn't even put a dent in the MS agendas!

The apparently MS stratedy would be: "You user be Dumb terminal user. We MS be Smart and know what is best for you!" as they succeed in taking the control away and steering you where they want to! For simply browsing the web you can actually use any OS out there! It certainly doesn't have to be a monthly anything other then the ISP's monthly bill you pay out!

Now as far as cable companies they are much like phone companies in tacking on hidden charges once they reel you in with the luster of the promos they have going and then "Lower the Boom" on you! SURPRISE! That $30 this and $30 that for this low monthly fee of this other doesn't tell the full story of going from $90+ a month to over $200! once all the services are added on after the trial period and whamo! They got you good!

As for Linux everyone tends to think all distros are free as well? For home use they are but...

Managing Repositories for Commercial Linux Distributions

Commercial Linux distributions (e.g., Red Hat Enterprise Linux and SUS Linux Enterprise Server) do not have official repositories. So if you are going to run a commercial Linux distribution inside your Containers, you should create a special repository which will store the software packages of this distribution and enable you to update the packages inside your Containers.
In the example below, we will create the repository which will store the RPM packages included in the Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 distribution. Besides, we will consider the situation explaining to you how to keep your repository up-to-date by getting the updated packages from the Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 website. In our example, we presume the following:

• The Node where the repository will be located is running Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 (RHEL 4).
• The package repository will be stored inside Container 111.
• Container 111 can be accessed from other networks.
• The apache web server is running inside Container 111 and the default document root for apache is /var/www/html, i.e. the apache web server stores its sites in the /vz/root/111/var/www/html directory on the Hardware Node.
• The apache user and group inside Container 111 are apache.
• The http protocol will be used to access the RHEL 4 packages repository.

More

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
It's quite obvious -- remove service responsibility away from the organisation -- it's cheaper and most customers will just give up.

Is there now on this planet a SINGLE LARGE ORGANISATION where you can simply pick up the phone any more and speak directly to a "Proper Human" without having to be routed through horrendous "telephone menu hell" - with that fake "Your Call is important to us.. " message and be left waiting hours before somebody at the other side of the planet whom you can barely understand just reads replies from prepared scripts without even Listening to what your problem is. It also seems that WHATEVER time of the day or night you try and use this version of 21st century torture you are usually informed that "Due to excessive call volumes all our agents are busy... !!!!!!" while the phone call charges tick up --especially from a mobile.

Just imagine what EXTRA horrors if you have problems with a CLOUD provider -- not only do you have to deal with the organisation that uses the Cloud - but then the organisation will simply mouth a canned response something like this "..Unfortunately we are having some issues with the service provider and are trying to resolve it...".

So even if WE don't use the Cloud ourselves - we will still have to endure the horrors of this type of "Service" as organisations attempt to buy these products cheaply so as to increase the profits for their bosses.

I really am no Socialist -- but I really think a lot of this "Globalisation" has really gone much too far -- and nobody is really benefiting

Simple examples -- Cheap clothing ---- deaths in horrendously poor constructed factories in Bangladesh.
The whole I.T outsourcing and telephone call centres -- people working long long hours in miserable sweatshops in places like Bangalore .
Cheap food -- causing vast amounts of unnecessary shipping and unemployement for home producers - with decent SOLAR and GEOTHERMAL energy (we don't have much Solar energy here though - Geothermal / Hydro is plentiful however) you'll be surprised what crops can be grown in regions you wouldn't think possible. Buying sustainable crops is fine - but the sheer volumes that are involved causes total distortion of Markets, a lot of speculation (although there's nothing wrong with a SENSIBLE "Futures Market") and starvation for the remote countries.

World trade is fine but it needs to be done sensibly -- and just not because some companies can make what they think is a cheap / quick Buck. Remember unemployment etc back home causes myriads of problems such as HUGE welfare rolls, increased crime, lack of people developing new technology and all sorts of other problems that Society in general will have to pay the bill for.

Unfortunately these days we can't separate Technological ideas from Social consequences -- and the Cloud is an area that could have HUGE consequencies if taken to its ultimate conclusion.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Night Hawk]

Well look at the bright side! It now won't be just your job that gets outsourced but your personal data as well! :shock: And you know who cashes in on all that?! :devil2: "Mr. Greedy Corporation speaking! Can we help you lose... ???" "What is it with this new dumb terminal? I can't do anything I used to with their new Clod... aww Cloud service!" icnic::banghead: "Don't worry! We have your bases covered!" :haha:

 

[Iforgot]

The Corporations rule the world! Or have you ever heard anything on that idea? The real problem stems from only seeing one or two corporations/companies holding the real monopolies on things! MS got sued for IE being included in Windows not allowing for Netscape and other browsers to get in on the act back in the late 90s! A $1 million a day fine imposed? or some phenomenal amount that didn't even put a dent in the MS agendas!

Actually Netscape was one of the first web browsers, M$ liked, but Netscape wouldn't sell, M$ hacked out IE free with OS.
During the Litigation, Netscape went open source to survive and started Mozilla.

After M$ lost the case, they kept going back to the high court multiple times, with extensions like,,, eg How would you like us to pay this?.... M$ drew it out in the High Court for many years.

Now If you think you have a legally legitimate claim, you better have very deep pockets to take on any multi-national company, let alone M$

As for "the cloud" with office........
Well, StarOffice was able pickup doc's, pic's, spreadsheet, etc from any network share and make a doc out of them.
M$ "The Cloud" just makes you pay for the network shares,,,, and now the apps and to use them too.

PS to myself
must remember to turn off NoScript while writing a post..
Otherwise it look terrible

 

[Night Hawk]

Mozilla was the best and smartest move that Netscape could take in ivew of how M$$$$ has been able to manipulate things over the years. Recently they still managed to prevail over the EU's enforcement of offering a list of browsers in the EU releases where people were finding IE was all there was when going to buy 7 new. They slid past again!

 

[Iforgot]

Mozilla was the best and smartest move that Netscape could take in ivew of how M$$$$ has been able to manipulate things over the years. Recently they still managed to prevail over the EU's enforcement of offering a list of browsers in the EU releases where people were finding IE was all there was when going to buy 7 new. They slid past again!

Night Hawk

M$ worked a way around having IE as default, well maybe not default but still there, and you cannot remove it totally because it's needed for updates.....

Mozilla and open source was probably the only way to keep there code safe from M$

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
I HATED Netscape -- so did a load of others -- and its re-incarnation into Firefox was a joke with plugins all over the place - and to get the wretched thing to work at all needed some sort of degree in computer science -- however some people liked it.

Mozilla these days has the same issue with "Bloat-itus".

For all the mouthings against IE -- it just works and if Ms want to make it part of Windows why shouldn't they -- it's only a sophisticated File Explorer for Gawd's sake". You can browse local files with IE too just type something like CTRL O keys and then browse to what you want to look at.

The EU doesn't insist that if I install Photoshop I have to look at alternative programs (not that there are any but that's beside the point) or any other piece of software that has alternates -- Disk backups for example compared with the built in Windows version.

Ms make windows - so it's up to them what works and what doesn't - and of course if they are sensible they will try and make as much as possible work - it sells more copies of Windows.

If you have any of the leaked Windows 8.1 builds you can try out IE11 which has about ZERO plugins etc -- the way stuff should be. Plugins IMO should only be a last resort to handle anything fairly rare like very specialized video / audio codecs.

Plugins are often a hackers way into code and the OS itself especially when combined with some crafitily wriiten scripts on some web sites.

If people really hate Ms so much - just use Linux or The Fruit company -- or write your own --it's STILL a free market.

Whatever people say against Windows -- you can usually pick up almost any piece of hardware known to man and it probably can be made to work quite quickly with Windows.

That's certainly not true of Linux distributions and a real problem with a lot of open source stuff is that you can't guarantee continuity from the developers who might get tired of working on their project and go off and do something else really great and worthwhile like save the Gorilla's in the Congo or whatever.

Businesses can't design their software strategy on a model that doesn't offer them long term continuity. Windows for all its faults does and has a large corporation behind it to support the model too.

Don't forget also the sheer BILLIONS of dollars the Gates Foundation has (and still does) given to charity. This money came originally via Ms while Bill Gates was in charge - so it's not all bad.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Iforgot]

jimbo

I don't hate M$

But if you can't question and/or criticize any company or company practices.....
then where is you're conscious and or improvement?

 

[lehnerus2000]

Bloat?

The IE 10 installer is ~69 MB.
The 2 Program directories add up to ~11 MB.
You don't need a 69 MB installer to install an 11 MB program.
Where did the rest of it go?

The FF 20 installer is ~20 MB.
The program directory is ~45 MB

 

[jimbo45]

jimbo

I don't hate M$

But if you can't question and/or criticize any company or company practices.....
then where is you're conscious and or improvement?

Hi there
I can and do criticise companies policies -- all sorts of companies - but IMO having a go at IE which as I said is only a glorified File explorer doesn't really seem to be an issue -- after all even though Windows is proprietary Ms bends over backwards (no it really does) to help other companies products to be able to work with Windows.

Ms never stopped Netscape or anybody else from making browsers -- proper legal arguments settled in the appropriate Courts are there to judge if any copyright violations were infringed - witness the legal Fest going on now between Samsung and Apple.

After all does BMW stop any 3rd party manufacturer from making accessories which fit quite nicely to BMW's product lines -- the EU hasn't taken BMW to court in FORCING them to ensure 3rd party products work -- it's up to the consumer and producer of the services to sell it as a cost effective service -- and let it stand or fail in the market place. BMW won't stop you fitting for example other racing / sports type rally wheels to its cars and its service agents won't refuse to repair or service them either - and it was the same with Netscape - so long as Ms code wasn't being infringed Ms wouldn't stop the software from being installed on Windows too.

Questions of Intellectual property rights are however a different issue -- it could be that IBM. SAMSUNG, MICROSOFT, APPLE and a host of other companies could get bogged down in this quagmire so I'm sure they don't want to go there any more.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[legacy7955]

I can't say things any better than jimbo45 has in this thread.

Well thought out, and logical posts.

 

[Night Hawk]

Mozilla was the best and smartest move that Netscape could take in ivew of how M$$$$ has been able to manipulate things over the years. Recently they still managed to prevail over the EU's enforcement of offering a list of browsers in the EU releases where people were finding IE was all there was when going to buy 7 new. They slid past again!

Night Hawk

M$ worked a way around having IE as default, well maybe not default but still there, and you cannot remove it totally because it's needed for updates.....

Mozilla and open source was probably the only way to keep there code safe from M$

MS didn't have to steal any code from Mozilla. It actually went to the contrary with IE suddenly seeing tabbed browsing come in with IE 7-8 to get people more interested in using the default browser over opting for 3rd party alternatives which was often the case since IE 6 was nothing but a large security hole to begin with!

The idea of having a default browser included with the OS is actually the best move in many ways for the various OSs not just Windows alone. Afterall how do you get connected online and get out on the web if you don't have any browser to start with? FireFox was of course the common browser for most but not all distros. Ice Weasel and Konqueror are two other open source browsers most people don't even know are out there as well as the 64bit flavor of FF namely WaterFox which has proven itself far better then FF any day of the week.

The main difference and big hubla about IE coming included however is that Windows is a paid for OS while your typical ubuntu download is a freebie for home use. Ubuntu, Knoppix Live, Linux Mint are branch offs from Debian while Solaris, Mac, and certain Red Hat Enterprise distros see commercial application even while Mac is for home as well as office.

Netscape being the predacessor of course became outdated and eventually saw it's last Navagator 9 release which I had on here for a bit and actually found that a bit better then Chrome! I still wouldn't run that any longer for the two reasons of being too old as well as limited compared to WaterFox, Ice Weasel for Windows, Opera being another Mozilla success.

Besides all that the results of each browser will tend to vary while you know IE is MS compatible which is necessary for MS elements for their own products. Once you move into a web based MS desktop deal you end up back with IE again for things like Silverlight, Active x, Adobe, and the entire ancholatta automatically due to being directly under MS control factors. Just like the Silverlight OS or "Silver OS" Windows4All site you are limited by the concepts deployed into a working environment.

Unlike the stand alone type desktop you enjoy now however you will be restricted on choices to what is incorporated into that type of remote controlled web service that will have it's limitations as well as whatever positive factors one being "maintained by MS" eliminating the worry of the user as far as fixing anything that breaks. While that would become a subscription service and won't work for the advanced user obviously the green or less informed may adhere to something like this over worry about how to fix a broken Preinstall.

 

[Iforgot]

Night Hawk

Just got home from work and thought "who did start the web browser? "

So found this..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser

An interesting read.

 

[jimbo45]

Mozilla was the best and smartest move that Netscape could take in ivew of how M$$$$ has been able to manipulate things over the years. Recently they still managed to prevail over the EU's enforcement of offering a list of browsers in the EU releases where people were finding IE was all there was when going to buy 7 new. They slid past again!

Night Hawk

M$ worked a way around having IE as default, well maybe not default but still there, and you cannot remove it totally because it's needed for updates.....

Mozilla and open source was probably the only way to keep there code safe from M$

MS didn't have to steal any code from Mozilla. It actually went to the contrary with IE suddenly seeing tabbed browsing come in with IE 7-8 to get people more interested in using the default browser over opting for 3rd party alternatives which was often the case since IE 6 was nothing but a large security hole to begin with!

The idea of having a default browser included with the OS is actually the best move in many ways for the various OSs not just Windows alone. Afterall how do you get connected online and get out on the web if you don't have any browser to start with? FireFox was of course the common browser for most but not all distros. Ice Weasel and Konqueror are two other open source browsers most people don't even know are out there as well as the 64bit flavor of FF namely WaterFox which has proven itself far better then FF any day of the week.

The main difference and big hubla about IE coming included however is that Windows is a paid for OS while your typical ubuntu download is a freebie for home use. Ubuntu, Knoppix Live, Linux Mint are branch offs from Debian while Solaris, Mac, and certain Red Hat Enterprise distros see commercial application even while Mac is for home as well as office.

Netscape being the predacessor of course became outdated and eventually saw it's last Navagator 9 release which I had on here for a bit and actually found that a bit better then Chrome! I still wouldn't run that any longer for the two reasons of being too old as well as limited compared to WaterFox, Ice Weasel for Windows, Opera being another Mozilla success.

Besides all that the results of each browser will tend to vary while you know IE is MS compatible which is necessary for MS elements for their own products. Once you move into a web based MS desktop deal you end up back with IE again for things like Silverlight, Active x, Adobe, and the entire ancholatta automatically due to being directly under MS control factors. Just like the Silverlight OS or "Silver OS" Windows4All site you are limited by the concepts deployed into a working environment.

Unlike the stand alone type desktop you enjoy now however you will be restricted on choices to what is incorporated into that type of remote controlled web service that will have it's limitations as well as whatever positive factors one being "maintained by MS" eliminating the worry of the user as far as fixing anything that breaks. While that would become a subscription service and won't work for the advanced user obviously the green or less informed may adhere to something like this over worry about how to fix a broken Preinstall.

Hi there

If you BUY Windows then if you find your choices on the web are restricted (Ms Silverlight for example - although that will be phased out eventually) then that's YOUR choice -- I mean do you buy for example an Ipod music player and automatically expect it to play say the old Minidisc ATRAC3 codec or even (which I find strange) the well known FLAC codec. No - You've bought into that device because it does what you want at the time you bought it.

These days there are better choices available such as most music players on smart phones which can play all sorts of codecs (apart from the ATRAC3 one which is quite rare and only known to minidisc users if there are any left - great RECORDING device too in its day though)

If there are services / products available on the web that don't work decently with windows then its up to the 3rd party developers to engage with Ms to fix it.

A lot of the problems though are caused by totally UNREASONABLE DRM requirements from Hollywood etc. I mean for instance for years you could never get a functioning DVD player for Linux straight OOB -- you had to source some decryption software (usually libdvdcss ) from sites in places like Brazil / Russia etc and then go through uninstall and re-install multi-media content -- and why in 2013 are we STILL putting up with regional encoding on DVD's when everybody knows this just doesn't work at all now - most computers (and TV's) play NTSC / PAL / HD TV without any problems and things like VLC player have long eliminated the need for that type of garbage.

It's not all Windows fault -- Ms will go over BACKWARDS to make as many devices / functions usuable with Windows --why shouldn't it -- the more products that work with Windows the more copies will be sold - both of the 3rd party application and Windows itself.

There's no point from either a technical or Financial perspective to severely restrict what applications and devices windows can handle -- and if you aren't happy with Ms's products you can always switch --it's not as if there's NO alternative.

With Cloud services / web based services it's slightly different as its YOU who decide on the services on offer and can buy into it or not. Almost like buying a Car - If you want features that are only available in a BMW then you don't buy a Honda Civic. So if Ms only offer specific cloud service choose another provider otherwise write / create your own. could be some Big Bucks to be made there.

My only worry is that eventually Stand alone OS'es will be dead and we'll all have to look at subscription based services -- however with the software I currently have I'll probably be long dead and buried before I HAVE to use these services.

In a Workplace I couldn't be bothered -- that's the job of the work place bosses and it's the clients who pay you your money - but on MY OWN devices its MY CHOICE and will remain so.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Night Hawk]

Night Hawk

Just got home from work and thought "who did start the web browser? "

So found this..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser

An interesting read.

You'll find quite a bit at wikipedia on just about anything! If you browse even further you will actually find several pages of links in the search results depending on which engine you use as well.

One site that links to wikipedia as well as other sites you may find interesting is the summation seen at W3C.org The history of the Web

You'll notice Opera was able to slip in there much earlier then FireFox and the rest during the browser war era. Here in 2013 you now would need to look at another wikipedia page to discover a good listing but still not all browsers out there. You won't find Flock for example included in the List of web browsers at
wiki.

As for subscription services jimbo45 that would seem to be the trend when you consider the offers by ISPs alone to watch media on your IPad or other device with some providing the hand helds namely the phone companies like Verizon and AT&T while the cable tv/internet companies with VoIP will provide their online options for using anything from laptop to "Kindle Dwindle" :sarc: while on the go.

Look at this way! The noobs will go for the no fuss subcription when simply not wanting to move the mouse cursor around a few search engines to look up a solution for a problem they are having with the home pc. Many will like not having to lug the family Dell mini tower down to some local pc repair shop and the wait but would simply like to pay the one monthly and call it a day and let whoever else worry about fixing things. They subscribe for tv, phone, internet, and now they can subscribe for a self maintained desktop OS as well.

 

[Layback Bear]

I'm thinking their might be another reason for so many cloud offerings. When one buys from a off shore cloud from company (A), company (A) may have a way of side stepping the taxes on the income of such sales from their native country. Companies like Microsoft or Apple would save billions on taxes.

 

[Night Hawk]

"Loopholes" are the commonly sought strategies didn't you know?! I thinkest most have heardest about the Cayman Islands and other offshore whatevers over the years when various interests have been caught trying to conceal assets of all types!

It wouldn't be billions so much but more like hundreds of millions which are mere drops in the bucket when looking at the estimated worth of just MS alone! When BG stepped down as CEO on 1/13/2000 he was estimated to be worth some $46billion back then! And speaking of Wikipedia here's something to show just how they can take in as well as lose in just one quarter noting online services tossed into the mix.

Financial

Standard and Poor's and Moody's have both given a AAA rating to Microsoft, whose assets were valued at $41 billion as compared to only $8.5 billion in unsecured debt. Consequently, in February 2011 Microsoft released a corporate bond amounting to $2.25 billion with relatively low borrowing rates compared to government bonds.[95]

For the first time in 20 years Apple Inc. surpassed Microsoft in Q1 2011 quarterly profits and revenues due to a slowdown in PC sales and continuing huge losses in Microsoft's Online Services Division (which contains its search engine Bing). Microsoft profits were $5.2 billion, while Apple Inc. profits were $6 billion, on revenues of $14.5 billion and $24.7 billion respectively.[96]

Microsoft's Online Services Division has been continuously loss-making since 2006 and in Q1 2011 it lost $726 million. This follows a loss of $2.5 billion for the year 2010.[97]

On July 20, 2012, Microsoft posted its first quarterly loss ever, despite earning record revenues for the quarter and fiscal year. Microsoft reported a net loss of $492 million; the 2007 acquisition of advertising company aQuantive for $6.2 billion and problems associated with it have been cited as the cause.[98]

Microsoft

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Actually - at least here things like Internet / Phone / TV are bundled into cheap packages - and often if you take the phone package the Internet is Free (it isn't really - but often its a good deal).

People are used to paying for CONSUMPTION of services such as Phone, Utilities etc - because these are essentially "Streamed" services that you can't really own.

When it comes to Software or even hardware it's a different issue - these types of offerings are discrete entities which can quite easily be OWNED and quite rightly people want to Own them.

Anybody who thinks paying a subscription will make things cheaper should consider things like -would you rather pay a RENTAL amount per month for a Car or buy one. - I know what's much cheaper for me -- my 12 year old BMW still runs far better and is infinitely more comfortable than paying say 300 USD a month (or more) for a new rental cheap Honda or the like. Monthly rental of a BMW would be a total waste of money.

I don't have an issue with paying say a subscription for movies for example as that's almost equivalent to a visit to the cinema and essentially you are buying a SERVICE.

Distinctions between what should be a service and what you can own is a bit blurry - but I think you see the point of the post -- Software isn't essentially a Service so you should be able to buy it (or a perpetual license to use it).

Would you for example pay say 0.05 c every time you took a picture on a smart phone - or would you pay for the OS in addition to the phone service for your mobile.

If Ms get away with their model we could see this type of practice creeping in too.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Iforgot]

another one on this is...
"Would you for example pay say 0.05 c every time you took a picture on a smart phone - or would you pay for the OS in addition to the phone service for your mobile."
and also as per FaceBook.. you find out that you don't have the rights to the pictures you took either

Another one is...
Maybe if "us dump users" focus on the usability of the Win8 Modern Gui, we want notice how DRM and Subscription has been integrated into the OS even more...

Dam I feel I getting paranoid

 

[Layback Bear]

Did Al Gore invent Windows 8 like he did the Internet?