My PC experience :(

[Chooseyant]

Hi,

This is going to be a big story, nay rant but if you want to read it go ahead.

I made my own custom PC in late 06' basically being my setup now. It started off working well but now I think of it have had graphics problems and problems in general every since. After upgrading the video card after a very brief time and buying a new one, I didn't really consider the problem transferring over.

Then a period of frequent shop visits were starting to begin. Firstly my motherboard died and then my PSU was faulty. I was at school and didn't have time to not own a computer for the 3-5 weeks it takes to get the equipment back from warranty so I had to replace it. That being a worse motherboard to save money and a new, better power supply. This time I chose Corsair not Thermaltake as I wanted a high quality piece, especially considering it could have been partly the PSU's fault my motherboard died.

Then... months later booting started to fail, I sent it back to the repair shop and they told me the PSU was faulty again. Offering to replace it, I sent it in for warranty while using an old PSU for the time being. I got it back a month later all new in package, reinstalled it and is my current PSU now.

While this was happening I upgraded to an Gigabyte ATI 4850 and kept having screen flickering issues. Now I attributed this to the drivers at first, so I reinstalled, found older versions etc but nothing seemed to work. I ended up reformatting my PC for a fresh install of Windows.

So with 8GB ram and graphics issues I could never multi task while playing games because whenever something got demanding it would flicker and freeze. Recently I bought a POV GTX 460 as I think Nvidia are if something better quality and more stable. By this stage it had become quite bad conditioned (4850), the fan was a bit dented and just looked like shit. I attributed this to the graphics problem. As I thought it was probably over heating because if I played games in lower resolution and didn't alt tab it seemed to work pretty well.

Now my GTX 460 is doing the same thing. I am not sure whether its overheating or more likely maybe my ram that is just not liking any of these video cards and creating this problem. Since it's happened to everyone I've owned now I think about it and I've changed motherboards and PSU's.

Now I chose high performance OCZ platinum ram which I thought would be good quality and maybe it's this that is causing it. Now if it is and there isn't some setting fix, I will have 8GB of bunk ram.

PC's are so open, there is so much variety in terms of software and hardware that there is a big room for error. I think it's pretty shit I have to deal with 'hardware not liking each other' issue when technically they should work fine with my PC.

I've been a PC user since I was a child and about 4 years ago I bought a macbook 13". The screen was pretty damn small, but it was very portable and well designed in the most part, although I never was a fan of those 'suck in' dvd drives. I had virtually 1 BSOD's in the 3 or so years I used it and rarely encountered any software problems or was in a need to reformat.

Coming from windows everything felt simplified and inturn quite boring. The navigation seemed slower but navigating it found to be very neat. No random files and folders and random DLL's. Although installers and such were kind of a disappointment, some applications just had a few folders but nothing much to 'browse' into. Although nowadays they have a 'show package' function which opens up inside the application and shows all the files.

The desktop was just... kinda boring. There wasn't much to do or play around with because they work pretty well without any need to fiddle. So I found myself becoming bored if I was just aimlessly on my computer.

Macs are made for the hardware used. So hardware issues are very rare. And with this comes a higher price, less customizable, less variety (games, programs) operating system.

Stability wins over any aspect when it comes down to it for me.

Don't get me wrong, I love my PC. I built it, the case, the parts were all specific and unique. But there has been a price I had to pay for it. And this normally doesn't happen but the percentage chance that this can happen is just too high. Encountering faulty parts alone should be VERY low. The way they manufacture them has no soul, Chinese slave labour and producing by the millions. Even though mac do the same, there standards are probably higher compared to a bunch of different brands, some cheaper than others trying to make cash.

I took a real look for the first time about how many threads this site has, that are basically, all problems. It's pretty overwhelming. And not that I am dissing this forum or anyone on here. These guys ****ing rock, quick reply's, knowledgeable, and overall nice people.

I didn't come into this trying to bag out PC or promote mac, hell I don't own one anymore. But this was my experience with both platforms. I've seen both sides. And I guess I just hate the fact this had to happen to me.

I built my friend a computer a year ago and it's still going strong, hardly any problems. But for the few percent that get ****ed, it really sucks.

I think most apple uses have an ego the size of a plane, but for those that don't they just like it for their own reasons.

I'm thinking of getting a Mac for my next computer. Although I dislike iMac's as they are so limited and the only other system option would be mac pro, that's where it would really be at. If I had the money and considering I might be working in the IT field I may get one. I might even just keep upgrading my PC and end up buying a macbook pro as apples laptop range are very well designed. I mean they are so slim, etc.

This was more of a vent than an intelligible post but I felt the need.
I don't mean to offend anyone.

Peace

 

[CarlTR6]

No offense and I understand your frustration.

 

[stormy13]

All those power problems, you ever move the computer to a different receptacle (making sure it isn't on the same circuit)? Checked the lines in your house to make sure they were good? Poor power out of the wall can also contribute to most of the problems you described.

By this stage it had become quite bad conditioned (4850), the fan was a bit dented and just looked like shit.

Don't even want to know how you managed to get the fan "dented".

 

[Keiichi25]

Well, not everyone's experience with computers will be 'wonderful'.

What I will say is this:

PCs (Not just windows, but literally PCs, non-Mac based computers) are basically the erector sets of computers. Either you get a nice package system (a box set) or you get one you can build yourself.

Generally, I would not recommend a user to build their own if they aren't willing to 'sit down' with it. Not to say that it is their fault, it is just simply the fact that most users want something that works, they don't care how, just works. A Mac is pretty much the most stable personal computer because Apple literally tightens down what they want hardware wise. You don't have a lot of room for tweaking because Apple wants to make sure the customer has as few problems as possible and make it not that easy to mess with if they can.

PC's current problem is the fact there are so many ways to build a PC, there will be incompatibilities. There will be some hardware issues and of course, many places you can get hardware. But that is also its pro as well. With so many places to get hardware, if you have the time and willingness to sit down with it, you can make a good system without having to pay nearly as much unless you wanted to.

Now, the only real thing driving the Windows market against Apple is Business, Gaming and Programming. I name these three because of how Microsoft positioned itself with the masses.

Business - Microsoft cornered this by their Office Suite at the beginning but also due to Programming. They made many tools to allow people to develop business tools quickly, far quicker than Apple did, and also capitalized on it on the Mac side that it is difficult not to see Microsoft Office not being used anywhere. What more, Microsoft has been pushing areas regularly to ingrain themselves into business practices that are easier to implement at lower price points.

Gaming - Not a lot of games with the Macintosh, although now Microsoft has turned its eyes on Console gaming against the long time runners of Nintendo and Sony... Microsoft is going to do reasonably well due to again, programming because they are making the tools easier to get to and trying not to beat developers down too much with Licensing, which Nintendo and Sony tend to do with their game development.

Programming - Again, I harp this because of the one thing I hate about Microsoft, the tools they make to make programming easier is also what is plaguing Windows in general. Windows was designed to be interoperable, allowing other programs to help improve the user situation, but by doing so, also allowed for so many new ways for less honorable people to exploit the possibilities.

Macintosh is great for a few genres - Basic Users, Graphic Artists and Desktop publishing.

Most of the good graphic artist or desktop publishing software was designed with Macintosh in mind. Even current Windows platforms need to be built specifically to capitalize on all the functionality of Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator at the same time.

Basic users don't give a hoot about Windows, all they care about is something to allow them to do what they want, be it Web Browsing, watching videos, writing a paper. If it isn't Desktop Publishing or Graphic Design, Macintosh business use is pretty much null and void because the basic user doesn't really use the computer for business, but for the most basic things which Macs do provide. You don't need Access, for instance, for a basic user. Most Mac users rarely use Databases, and if they do, it will be a very generic one that can be built from Filemaker Pro, because that database is pretty simple and straight forward.

And lastly, a basic user doesn't give too much of a hoot about hardware. They want something that is an appliance. Something that works or you take to a tech, get it going and you are there. While you can do that with a PC, to be honest, the best analogy I can make is that a Mac is like that expensive car you drive around but don't really mess with, while the PC is that inexpensive car you use and love to tinker with.

Now this isn't to say the OP is a stupid basic user. My point is that from what it sounds like, he wants to have a good system. Unfortunately, he has to go with a Mac because he lacks the time to deal with the issues he has with a PC. And quite honestly, from the sound of things, he might be better off with the Mac if he isn't one that needs to do serious business programming or wants to play some of the games (Yes, I know Mac has some popular games too... Most of the interesting ones seem to be on the PC or console these days).

The Mac is a reasonable (although a bit pricey) computer system for any user. His problems with the PC experience was basically bad luck due to where he went with it, but then again, with a custom built computer, you are stuck with the headaches of working it out.

 

[DeaconFrost]

What if I could give you the same story, but in reverse...on how several Dell systems have been infinitely more reliable than one Mac Pro we've had in our office? Oh, and I bought 5 of them for the cost of one Mac Pro.

This is what burns me up a little about 'Switchers". You blame would could be one error, or even a user error on the PC platform and switch to what you mistakenly assume will be a better, more reliable platform...all because of your lone experience. Think Macs are super stable? Take a look through the Apple forums some day. They have as many issues as PCs. The difference is, their users are FAR less willing to bitch, due to egos and the high cost they paid. Hardware these days is identical, so your chance of failure is equal. Why not save money, and go with a far more open and customizable platform?

Now on to your issues. First, how the hell did you dent a fan? Second, with all the PSU failures, did you ever think about the power coming to the computer? Thermaltake is a quality brand as well. If you had two quality PSUs die on you quickly...that's your clue right there that you have an issue elsewhere.

I also see no mention of the case you used, or well you have that configured in terms of cooling. When's the last time you swept the test out of it, and made sure all your fans were pointing in the right direction and operating? All of those could lead to overheating.

If you don't want to deal with the testing of hardware, then buy a Dell or something like that. You'll still get the same hardware as a Mac, but with infinitely more software choices, and plenty of money left in your pocket.

 

[pparks1]

My coworker has a iMac at home and an iMac at work. His work machine has been flawless. His home machine has had the hard drive go out twice, and the motherboard go out once. Apple replaced it all, but he kept having to haul in the 24" iMAC back into the store to get it repaired.

 

[Keiichi25]

For the record, I'm a Dell user (Happen to have a Dell XPS 720). Only had an HD and a video card fail on it. Been a dell user for over 8 years or so as well. I went with their Desktops mostly cause I was a bit out of the loop on some of the hardware, mostly with regards to Processor board and memory. Had a Dell XPS, then went to the XPS720 when the 4 year old XPS had a failure on the rear fan which also was the cooling fan for the CPU. Rarely had any major problems with either one baring those points.

I only cite the Mac stuff mostly the people who I have worked with who switched to them mostly did it to have less hassles and also because they were iPod users and preferred the 'ease of use'. Hence why Windows XP, Vista and 7 were always pointed at as trying to be a Mac wannabe for 'look and feel' between the differences of OS 8-9 and OS X.

Apple's big push on their commercials was capitalizing on how 'complex' a PC was in the earlier years, and now how annoying it was with the different flavors, the nagging, the security issues, and compatibility, ignoring the fact that Macintosh actually does the same thing to their users when they introduce a NEW Mac Generation or tweaking their OS, which invariably leads to having to get newer software again.

I will say though, Mac tends to be a bit more simplistic for the basic user and it was designed for that purpose. Just as iPod is rather simplistic, but there were many other mp3 players before the iPod. Apple's general focus is basically 'be simple, aim for the simple people'.

 

[Chooseyant]

I also built a computer a spent hours trying to get it working when in the end the shop said it just 'worked' and multiple power outlets were tried. http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/115589-pc-wont-power-ocz-psu-help.html

Which is just basically a mystery as to why it would not load.

 

[Chooseyant]

Now this isn't to say the OP is a stupid basic user. My point is that from what it sounds like, he wants to have a good system.

Yes I want to have a good system. I do have time, I've been fiddling with my computer for hell knows how long. What I don't have time for is things such as faulty components so that it literally will not boot up until replaced.

I like working around software issues, and launching various applications only windows has. Experimenting with virtual machines, and even installing OS X.

My point is, I don't think I should have anything but a 'good system' if I pay for it, brand new and install everything fine. But I have been pretty unlucky.

I think a big position apple has on Windows now is that they can run windows. So if you really wanted to play that windows only game or specific software, you could. You are definitely limited though as it is only an emulation but it's quite impressive. I've installed mac on windows but in no way is that something for the 'general idiot'. It also relies on specific hardware for which it has drivers and stability in the long term is questionable.

 

[Chooseyant]

What if I could give you the same story, but in reverse...on how several Dell systems have been infinitely more reliable than one Mac Pro we've had in our office? Oh, and I bought 5 of them for the cost of one Mac Pro.

This is what burns me up a little about 'Switchers". You blame would could be one error, or even a user error on the PC platform and switch to what you mistakenly assume will be a better, more reliable platform...all because of your lone experience. Think Macs are super stable? Take a look through the Apple forums some day. They have as many issues as PCs. The difference is, their users are FAR less willing to bitch, due to egos and the high cost they paid. Hardware these days is identical, so your chance of failure is equal. Why not save money, and go with a far more open and customizable platform?

Now on to your issues. First, how the hell did you dent a fan? Second, with all the PSU failures, did you ever think about the power coming to the computer? Thermaltake is a quality brand as well. If you had two quality PSUs die on you quickly...that's your clue right there that you have an issue elsewhere.

I also see no mention of the case you used, or well you have that configured in terms of cooling. When's the last time you swept the test out of it, and made sure all your fans were pointing in the right direction and operating? All of those could lead to overheating.

If you don't want to deal with the testing of hardware, then buy a Dell or something like that. You'll still get the same hardware as a Mac, but with infinitely more software choices, and plenty of money left in your pocket.

The dent in the fan is hard to describe. The gigabyte brand uses a Zalman fan and it's got this small idk I would call them nubs protruding on the outside. Now one of these is a little dented so it's pretty small but the card itself seems pretty fine other than dust.

Now with these power issues as this has been over the course of 4 years I have forgotten some details. After the first PSU failed I ended up getting a power surge board with multiple inputs so that I could hook everything up.

If you look at my system specs, it's all in there. Antec 900.

Also I am no snitch, if you read my thread I am still a fan of PC's. I could never erase them from my heart, I grew up on them. I've looked at my case about 500 times over the past years and the fans have always been working fine. The case has some big fans and on full there should be no reason for overheating.

I mean had I known all this I still would of made my PC and not gone a dell. It was my first PC I made for myself ever. But for future reference it's an idea.

 

[Chooseyant]

I don't enjoy mac's simplicity I think I find the user interface boring and the navigation slow. I spend a lot of time on my computer, I want to spend it checking out stuff. I am just not a fan of fixing problem after problem so it will work. This is also why I have a hard to deciding over Android or iPhone. Android has a trashy app store and misses out on some amazing exclusive iPhone apps. But it's so much more open, so many thing you can tweak and things such as hosting hotspot's sounds really cool.

 

[spyknee]

Did you flash bios to latest?
I use Gigabytes X58 UD3R and EP45 UD3R. The X58 has been flawless and a dream to work with. The EP45 was finicky and a little more trouble to get stable.

 

[Chooseyant]

nope! I think I am going to do that now, thanks for the suggestion. I kinda woke up sick so I bailed on Uni so I have some time.

 

[Chooseyant]

I went to the Gigabyte website downloaded Rev 1.0 and tried to install it via Q-Flash and after installing it booted up and automatically started recovering the bios. So I think it has reverted back.

The name of the file I downloaded was motherboard_bios_ga-ep43-us3l_f8

I was going to try an older version but as all the warnings about bios screwing up I haven't done it yet.

 

[spyknee]

My EP45 came with F5 ver.
New install so I intended to flash bios first thing, grabbed up latest F12. Ran it twice, flash stated it passed, both times at reboot F5 was still listed.
So I got F6, flashed, passed, it took.
Got F7, flashed, passed, it took.
F8 flashed, passed, it took.
I stepped the mobo through each and every update till F12 was in.
Made a difference in mobo stability.

Download bios update file to desktop.
Extract update to A:\
Enter bios and choose flash key (F8???) or set bios to boot with floppy.

In bios disable Gigabyte boot screen, will allow you more time to see boot info, which will include mobo bios ver that its currently using.

 

[Keiichi25]

Now this isn't to say the OP is a stupid basic user. My point is that from what it sounds like, he wants to have a good system.

Yes I want to have a good system. I do have time, I've been fiddling with my computer for hell knows how long. What I don't have time for is things such as faulty components so that it literally will not boot up until replaced.

I like working around software issues, and launching various applications only windows has. Experimenting with virtual machines, and even installing OS X.

My point is, I don't think I should have anything but a 'good system' if I pay for it, brand new and install everything fine. But I have been pretty unlucky.

I think a big position apple has on Windows now is that they can run windows. So if you really wanted to play that windows only game or specific software, you could. You are definitely limited though as it is only an emulation but it's quite impressive. I've installed mac on windows but in no way is that something for the 'general idiot'. It also relies on specific hardware for which it has drivers and stability in the long term is questionable.

Well, part of building a Custom PC is that you have to not only 'pay for it', you have to research it a bit to make sure you have the right combination of parts. As for Apple being able to run Windows, of course it can. So can Linux with emulation. However virtualizing it or Emulating it can have odd effects too for some hardware expectations and how virtual boxes talk to hardware or how emulators deal with it.

Also, please note, I am well aware that OS X relies on specific hardware. Apple monopolizes their own class of PC for a reason, they don't want clones and don't want other people to use anything but their computer hardware for that OS. They keep a tight rein on it for a reason. They are also not going to bother trying to make it work too hard on other hardware because they aren't going to task themselves to really hit every possible hardware permutation.

Windows is more generic because they are trying to support every possible PC hardware out there, and that is their target market, try and get every nook and cranny and saturate the market. And they do it well by also throwing out coding tools to make even joe schmoe make programs.

Linux is roughly the red headed step child mostly due to so many different flavors of Linux (Red Hat, Denebian, Solaris, HP-UX, Ubuntu and so forth) which are sometimes picky about the hardware it runs for some, others seem to be fine, but lacking also some methodologies to access the hardware for some versions of Linux over others. Linux is a good OS, just difficult for people to get into and work with as well at times.

Anyways, getting back to the point with regards to hardware, unfortunately, it still be a labor of love when you do a custom build. As much as you should have parts that work, the problem is that you are just a user as well. There is no 100% guarantee that every part you buy will be 100%. Sure, there is suppose to be QA to make sure that they won't break down, but even QA doesn't necessarily guarantee 100% functionality. Pre-Built systems will have a slightly better chance of not having as many failures, HOWEVER, knowing from past experience, it is still not a guarantee, and it is about the same for Macs as well, as pointed out by some posters here.

 

[Chooseyant]

It wouldn't be the same as Macs, as you stated they are pre-built only use hardware specific from Apple. No way in hell do they screw up as much as 1000 different types of motherboards, ram, cpus, gpus etc.

I still like my PC and don't regret building it. I just think other company's have hurt the PC market by creating problems. It's easy to brand and keep it up to scratch. Not so easy for 1000's.

If I had all the time in the world and no dead lines PC's would be pretty good. But when you can't use a computer because one of the parts is broken or Windows decides to **** up then you gotta fork out a lot on a quick fix. And end up getting back the same part refurbished 1 month later due to the fact it was faulty.

I want a stable system. And mac just seems so much more stable as there are less things to go wrong.